donald trump expected to leave trump tower in mid town, manhattan minutes from now and in the courthouse in lower manhattan. the first day of a civil trial relating to claims of fraudulent business practices within the trump organization. so more coming up on that as it happens here. meanwhile, the crisis is unrelenting. illegal border crossings hitting an all-time high under president biden and repercussions are being felt everywhere coast to coast and especially in this town as we say good morning. i'm bill hemmer. dana has the day off today. gillian turner is here. >> gillian: i got in 9:30 last night. great to see every store open. a guy was singing frank sinatra on the megaphone. people eating ice cream. >> bill: it wasn't raining, too. >> gillian: the numbers are stunning at the border. more than 260,000 illegal crossings in september alone. more than 2.2 million have crossed this fiscal year, nearly four times the population of wyoming. >> bill: it's putting a strain on cities everywhere. the open borders allowing cartels to smuggle in more fentanyl. the topic of a mayor's summit kicking off today in new york city. new york's governor is calling all of this untenable. >> we want them to have a limit on who can come across the border. it is too open right now. people coming from all over the world are finding a way through simply saying they need asylum. the majority of them end up on the streets of new york. we're proud of the fact that new york has a statue of liberty in our harbor. we're one of the most diverse places on earth because of our welcoming nature and it is our dna to welcome immigrants. there has to be some limits in place and congress needs to put more controls at the border. talk about eliminating positions for border patrol. we need to double or quadruple those numbers. >> gillian: the mayor of laredo, texas, he will be here in a moment. let's go to kelly o'grady. how cities are trying to cope with the fentanyl surge. >> that's right. the drug crisis is running rampant across the country. fentanyl spurring the spike that we're seeing in overdoses but very different approaches how to combat it. i want to start with new york city. over 3,000 people have died of drug overdoses in 2022. a 12% increase over the previous year. the newest solution from the new york city health commission is everyone should carry narcan. a nasal spray to save lives in an emergency overdose situation. the idea is that the burden is supposed to fall to all of us to step in. if you see someone on the side of the street in a homeless encampment that is experiencing a drug overdoes. narcan is available over the counter. it is free at participating pharmacies and even a vending machine in new york city where you can get it. more planned. san francisco also a blue city, they are attempting to go after the root cause. drug infested san francisco. tenderloin area. mandatory drug testing on welfare services. several states have proposed legislation. drug users are voicing opposition saying it is their choice to use. critics are worrying the proposal will harm users attempting to recover. mayor breed in san francisco is saying accountability is necessary. she shared this statement quote, if you want to seek help and you are trying, we want to help you. but if people are not interested in seeking treatment, we can't just let -- continue to let people deteriorate on our streets. i will note that san francisco is also pushing narcan as an immediate solution but bill and gillian, i was down at the arizona border and i talked to a sheriff who has seen drugs come across. his daughter in her welcome kit at college was given narcan and his concern is doesn't that just encourage people to use it if they have a safety net? back to you. >> gillian: kelly, thank you. >> bill: the city of laredo, texas a major point of entry on the front lines of this crisis. has been from the beginning. dr. victor tray vino is the mayor there and you are in new york city for a big conference that begins today. you are a doctor in public health and also family medicine. i can't think that narcan is the answer for a city like new york with 8 million people here. what is your perspective? what can you bring to this conference? >> one of the reasons i came here is to put our reality situations that we have at the border and being that it's the largest port in the united states with $300 billion of trade a year and $189 billion since august or july. it is an important area we need forfocus on. the main thing to focus on is how to deal with strategies to curb the influx of fentanyl. we know that it's produced in mexico, consumed in the u.s. precurors coming from china. we need partnership with mexico to have a task force to deal with the situation and educate our children. children need to be educated when fentanyl. only two milligrams can be a lethal dose. being in the hospital, i have seen cases of people dying especially children and young adults. and it is very devastating to talk to the family. there is nothing to do. the child is already dead. narcan is a good solution and treatment choice but other strategies we can use to prevent the situation. >> gillian: we know that you are fully committed to combating this in whatever way possible. do you have a lot of hope for the summit that mayor adams is hosting? is it really going to find a solution to the crisis or more lip service? >> no, we have to have awareness, number one and push the idea this is a crisis not only for certain cities but the whole country. it is a bi national thing. we need to look at the source. we need to stop the source. we need to do strategies. first of all talking about the strategies besides treatment. we know what the treatment is and we know how to give treatment to people that are in this situation. but the strategies to curb the influx of narcan and the production of narcan i any is very important. education is very important. >> bill: it did not need to get this way. your first answer you laid out a number of priorities that should be in place. a lot of them are not. they're not being pursued enough. call for number one. laredo encounters so far fiscal year to day 2023, 234,000. in addition the total fentanyl seizures in september call for number two now is 2.5 tons, enough to kill 1.25 billion people. how is it getting here? because people tell us it is tucked in cars and in trucks. but you know there is so much commerce that goes between your city and the mexican border. how do you get to it? >> we have about 15 to 17,018 wheelers a day crossing the border. it is very hard to check ole of them. we have electronic devices that check the trailers and for anomalies. we need to do a better job, i agree with that. that's where the crux is. stopping it at the border but stopping where it is produced and shipped. precursor material shipped from china. >> bill: it sounds good. at the moment we're dealing with a national crisis here. sir, good luck to you. appreciate your time today. we call you doctor and mayor. good luck teaching new york city how to do it. >> gillian: a live look at mid town manhattan. former president donald trump is about to depart from trump tower heading to the county courthouse in downtown manhattan for day one at the civil fraud trial against him and his company. it accuses the former president and his sons of exaggerating wealth to get hundreds of millions in loans. opening statements are set for this morning 10:00 a.m. eastern. there are no cameras in the courtroom as of now. we'll bring you any updates as soon as we get them from that courtroom. >> bill: in the meantime you have this i.r.s. contractor charged with stealing confidential tax information on some of the wealthiest americans and disclosing them to news outlets. rich edson has the twisted story in washington. >> justice department has charged charles little john with stealing and leaking that information. from in or about 2018 until in or about 2020 while defendant was working on an i.r.s. contract, he stole tax returns and returned information associated with public official a and thousands of the nation's wealthiest people including returns and return information dating back more than 15 years. officials tell us public official a is then president donald trump. the dates match with "the new york times" report in 2020 on his tax returns and a 2021 article about how much the wealthiest americans pay in federal income taxes. the court document fails to mention how little john accessed these returns, a massive unprecedented breach of confidential information during a time trump was in a fight with congressional democrats over releasing his tax returns. unlike other presidents or major party candidates former president trump did not make that information public. it led to a "new york times" article called it shows trump's chronic losses and tax avoidance. american earners concluded the very richest pay lower rates than the merely rich. late last year democrats eventually obtained and released several years of trump's tax returns. justice department has littlejohn faces five years in prison if convicted. a law enforcement sources say they are discussing a plea agreement. >> bill: rich edson. california -- governor newsom picked someone to replace feinstein is not a resident of california. there is that and then this. >> good for her because a lot of people haven't heard of the chiefs. [laughter] until she came on board. now everybody knows. >> gillian: can't deny it. taylor swift's world. bill and i are living in it. how she is taking over some of our most cherished brands and institutions across the country and beyond. >> bill: a big sweet last night. democrat bowman says he pulled a fire alarm in a house office by mistake. the rationale not holding a lot of water with republicans. ♪ >> bill: here we go again. get used to this picture. the former president, donald trump, getting inside his black s.u.v. in mid town manhattan moments ago. now the live look as he heads to the courthouse in lower manhattan for the civil fraud trial. he will be in court today. he might be there all week and as we have noted, any time he shows up in new york for these court cases, the city is a mess. that's one of the part story. new york's attorney general james is suing donald trump and his company for $250 million based on michael cohen's testimony from four years ago where he testified about trump inflating his wealth. the new york judge, he are preside over the case. this is not a jury trial, by the way. but donald trump is on the witness list, donald trump junior, eric trump, and ivanka trump are on the witness list on behalf of james. we'll see how it goes. the case centers on financial statements that occurred over a 10-year period from 2011 to 2021. so the caravan is now underway on what is a pretty nice day in new york for a change with the sun out. we'll see when he gets to court. more coming up on that. california, other end of the country. gavin new some picking up laphonza butler to fill the seat of the late senator dianne feinstein. his choice raising eyebrows after it emerges she has not lived in the golden state for years. wil william la jeunesse is the report. >> a bombshell for other reasons as well. la -he suggested he would get a caretaker. that's not the case. the governor's office said butler is free to run for a full six year senate term beginning next year. races well underway pinning adam shift against progressive congresswoman katie porter of orange county and the long-time san francisco representative barbara lee. who is laphonza butler? she is from mississippi and former head of california's largest labor union and the current president of emily's list that works to elect democratic women who support abortion rights. a former political consultant, advisor to senator kamala harris and a lobbyist at abnb. newsom said she has spent her entire career fighting for women and girls and has been a fierce advocate for working people. she will make history becoming the first black lesbian to openly serving in the u.s. senate. she moved in 2009 but left two years ago with her partner and school age daughter for maryland. she reportedly owns a home in l.a. and only needs to change her voting registration to represent california in the u.s. senate. the big question now is, is she going to run for that senate seat? the race is wide open, bill. schiff at 20, porter 17, lee at 7%. she will be sworn in wednesday and much more liberal voice than senator feinstein, of course, a centrist. >> bill: william, nice to see you in los angeles. >> what's really interesting, this is a formal principal. he knows what a fire alarm is. he has yelled at members and his behavior has been unbecoming. what's interesting if it was an accident, when the capitol police came to interview you, why would you lawyer up right away? >> gillian: kevin mccarthy moments ago saying democratic congressman bowman's climb that he pulled the fire alarm in the house office building was a mistake is not believable. joining us now is marc thiessen, former speech writer for president bush. what do you say to this? was it an accident or was it a deliberate politically-motivated move on his part do you think? >> so, as a school principal, he literally ran fire drills. he -- his job was to pull the fire alarm as a test to get the students out in an orderly fashion. the idea he had no idea what would happen when the pulled the fire alarm he did it as a principal. his job. in his school, the punishment for pulling a false alarm was 10-day suspension minimum, expulsion maximum. the idea he should suffer a punishment less than his own students would have suffered if he was the principal of the school and they had done this is ridiculous. >> gillian: let's talk about where it goes from here. he could -- two investigations ongoing, one by capitol police, one by the house itself here. the capitol police investigation could well result in some kind of a criminal charge, unlikely. there could be political consequences for him. malliotakis introduced the resolution to expel from his house seat. game it out the most appropriate punishment for him here. >> two laws in place. d.c. law, misdemeanor to have a false fire alarm. which is punishable by up to six months in jail. but then also now i am not somebody who downplays what happened on january 6th. hundreds of people have been charged under eight u.s. code 1512c2 that makes it a crime to obstruct a meeting of congress. donald trump has been charged under the law and he only is charged with inciting other people to do it. here we have a video of the congressman pulling the fire alarm in order to stop congress from voting on a bill that would have kept the government open. it wasn't a procedural vote. people are saying it was obstructing the electoral count, so is stopping a vote to prevent the government from being shut down in a few hours if congress didn't pass that law. this is a very serious thing that he has done. this is not some -- nobody believes his excuses. he knew what he was doing. he is caught on tape and needs to suffer the consequenceens under d.c. and federal law. if you go after trump and the january 6th people you have to go after bowman. >> gillian: there is footage of him actually making this move. he himself has admitted it. in terms of his defense, he seems to be saying he is not -- he is responsible for doing it but not cull -- he thought it would open a door he couldn't get through that was locked. who is buying that explanation? i know aoc has come to his defense. >> nobody is. democrats and republicans don't believe it. they say they do. even if you thought he was trying to get the door open. it is okay -- what happens when you pull a fire alarm. he knows this when he was a school principal. the fire trucks come. he thinks it's okay for him to get a door open and okay to call the fire department that could have put them out of reach for a real fire somewhere else? the excuse is absurd. you don't pull a fire alarm when there isn't a fire. a two-minute decision. the first minute for coffee. >> gillian: some people think it was premeditated. a political plan to have it go down. i don't know who ordered it or what. what are the odds of that being the case? do you think at the end of the investigation. if it is the case they'll find out. hard to keep it covered up. >> as part of the investigation let's get emails and text messages. all that stuff needs to be looked into and find out who he was communicating with. if other people were involved they should be prosecuted for their involvement in this. this is a serious thing, not a joke. he put lives at risk by potentially calling the fire department away from other fires. he was trying to stop a proceeding of congress. clear what he was doing and he needs to pay a price for it. >> gillian: we have to leave it there. thank you for taking time for us this morning. appreciate it. >> bill: thank you, gillian. police searching for a 9-year-old who they believe was kidnapped riding a bicycle at a campground over the weekend. an update in a moment. taylor swift is rumored to be an item with kelce. pretty good line. will her presence be a boom for the nfl and more, we ask? 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[ting] ♪ live in the moment. ask your doctor about otezla. >> bill: watching this during the commercial break. former president donald trump has made his way to downtown and inside the courthouse in a matter of moments here. he has said he will attend this civil trial likely the entire week. so today is just day one when we would expect opening statements in all likelihood. this trial will not be televised but james, the attorney general in new york. running on a platform saying she would get donald trump held a press conference a moment ago reiterating her statement about what she believes is fraud carried out by the former president to get better interest rates and to get a cut on insurance policy costs, gillian. now we see the motorcade arriving, i do believe, at the building in question. >> gillian: yes, bill, former president trump weighed in pushing back against the attorney general. he writes i am going to court tomorrow morning to fight for my name and reputation against a corrupt and racist attorney general james who campaigned on getting trump in a trump-hating judge who is unfair, unhinged and vicious in his pursuit of me. the judge who will oversee this case as it unfolds and will ultimately be the decider on the fate of the charges against the former president as there is no jury. >> bill: we anticipate court to begin in about 28 minutes and this will go for 5, 6, 7, 8 hours today and we'll see what both sides have to say in the end. it's a civil matter, not criminal. trump and the other defendants do not face jail time. his lawyers have said in court documents in a separate matter their client plans to attend as much as he possibly can. keep in mind he was just in iowa yesterday morning at a campaign event. so he will be moving in and out and jogging back and forth between the courtrooms for the next year in all likelihood. >> gillian: new normal. we don't know how long the trial will proceed for but we know the judge has asked both sides to clear their calendars through christmas. we could be hearing about this back and forth for a long time. >> bill: the witness includes are the president, his two sons and ivanka trump and so is the long-time trump organization chief financial officer alan weisel berg who is in his late 70's and did time at ryker's island a year ago in new york. that's a tough place. he is mid to late 70s and he served his time inside that jail and he is expected to be on the witness stand as well. at issue here is what you declare in terms of what you have simply stated in terms of real estate. now, what this judge ruled last week, it was a bench order, no jury, just like this case will be as well. that judge ruled that the former president grossly exaggerated his net worth. how do you do that, okay? here are two of the claims and examples you will hear about. the trump tower penthouse in mid town, manhattan, was listed at 30,000 square feet but in reality the judge is saying it's only 11,000 square feet. you could gain off that in terms of a better interest rate, perhaps, or better insurance costs. meanwhile down in florida the mar-a-lago mansion and club, which is massive, and sits on some of the best real estate in america had been valued around 18 or 20 million and that would suggest that that value in this case was severely underestimated on behalf of the judge. the trump team, they were shooting out tweets all week after this ruling last week saying there is no -- this is a property in excess of $3 hundred million. democrats, james and the judge have argued the case that you hang on is the estimated size of the trump tower penthouse. those are some of the competing sides right now in these arguments. >> gillian: the trump defense team in all this is claiming when it comes to mar-a-lago, it is actually worth 50 to 100 times the $18 million amount that the judge determined in the preliminary ruling. so there a quite a gap between how the two sides see the trump organization's net worth, its holdings and they'll go property by property through the former president's portfolio and determine now whether he falsified these documents or ordered others. >> bill: welcome to our coverage here, byron york. it will go on for some time. keep it specifically on this case. what is trump's best argument in this civil matter? >> his best arguments have already been rejected. this is going to -- i think this is going to strike a lot of people who are not familiar with stories like this as odd. we've already had the verdict in this case. the judge has said that yes, trump did commit fraud and the only thing we're really going to be discussing in the trial before this judge is how severe the penalty will be, whether trump will be put out of business completely in new york or not. so trump's defenses were that he didn't defraud anybody, he said. and that the banks didn't lose any money in the cases in which they loaned him money based on these valuations. and that there was actually no harm. so i want to read you something from "the new york times" this morning that people should understand. in light of those defenses justice noted in his ruling a powerful state law allows miss james to pursue persistent fraud without having to show that the defendant actually intended to defraud anyone or that their actions resulted in financial loss. a lower bar than most fraud cases. it also affords drastic remedies empowering miss james to seek steep financial punishments and the cancellation of mr. trump's certificates to operate a business in new york. so this is an unusual case, i think, for most viewers. most of it has already been decided. >> gillian: in light of that. welcome to the programming. in light of the fact that you mentioned that a major component has already been ruled on, the judge says they are going to focus on essentially the details here. allegations in the lawsuit that are related to the alleged falsification of business records, false financial statements and insurance fraud. what do you think the prospects are on those sort of sub issues? >> well, this is a trial before the judge, so the judge that made this ruling has already made a ruling is the judge who will hear and make the ruling in the case. there is no jury here. trump -- his lawyers can't sway members of a jury. so i think you would have to say things don't look good for president trump. i think that we should try to look -- and i can't tell you this off the top of my head -- we should try to look for precedents and see what levels of punishments have been meted out in previous cases that might be somewhat similar to this, although i think we would all agree no case is exactly similar to a case with a former president of the united states. but you are absolutely right. this week is going to be about the details, how big would a fine be? would trump be completely put out of business in new york? what happens to the assets that he has? he has very valuable assets, trump tower is an asset and worth something. mar-a-lago is an asset. it's worth something. what happens to those? a lot of things to do decided. the fundamental part of the case is already decided. >> bill: you have said that now the fundamentals of the case have been decided. but it appears that's really not the case because james is trying to bar him from doing business in new york, is she not? >> she is. the underlying liability, i have guess we don't say guilt. it is a civil lawsuit, not a criminal trial. unlike trump's other indictments. the underlying liability did trump commit fraud, that has been decided by the judge going in. you are right whether some sort of corporate death penalty is imposed. that is donald trump, whose businesses are based in new york, can no longer operate in new york, you're right. that is on the table this week and will be decided. but guilt or innocence already done. >> bill: okay. byron, stand by. professor jonathan turley joins us now. we haven't given you a day off. welcome to our coverage. chime in on what byron's point was there. how much is to be decided in this civil matter? and would it be subject to appeal if the former president is found guilty? let's start there simply. >> for the former president, this likely has the feel of a canned hunt. the judge has boxed him in by finding this prior fraud. and what remains to be determined is what is going to be the repercussions of those findings? new york does have a sort of ample law, very generous law that does not require the showing that people actually lost money from this. part of the concern is that this is an area that in new york, where real estate is commonly subject to these valuation differences, trump was particularly notorious or ramping up the value of his property or devaluing it depending it was a back loan or taxes. but there have been suggestions that, you know, this has the feel of very selective prosecution, even though it's a civil case. so what goes on in this courtroom is likely to be just how far the court is willing to go? is he going to use the nuclear option and effectively bar trump from doing business in new york? that would be an extra order move. trump is associated on so many levels with this city. not just the iconic also but his history as a new yorker. and, you know, the trump people have said they feel this has been a biased process. many of these issues will have to be appealed. there is limitations on how much you can appeal before a final decision. so this is going to go on for years as they continue to try to appeal. now, whether he will have consequences before then, yeah, that's probably likely. you could have a couple years of appeal. >> the scenario here is let's say you get down the line here, right, professor, and james wants him to pay $2 hundred million. is there a fine issue and a, can you continue to do business in new york and b, continue to own your property. if you can't, you force the guilty party to sell, i don't -- there is no other case that comes to mind that would parallel that outcome. and is there one that comes to your mind, sir? >> no. and particularly because one can certainly see the merits of what the judge found earlier about fraud. but you also have to acknowledge that this is a common issue with regard to real estate, this type of valuation differences. what makes this case interesting there is no clear evidence that someone was harmed by all of this. and so that last point should weigh heavily on what the judge does. if he essentially imposes the financial death penalty there will be a lot of questions as to whether that is overkill given the fact that these are disputes that happen a lot and that there is no -- according to the trump team -- no indication that people actually lost money in any of these disputes. >> gillian: this is gillian. is there room here for the judge to determine different degrees of culpability among the former president and the other co-defendants donald trump junior and eric trump, or is it sort of all in or nothing for the people involved? i'm curious what that could portend for the future of the business organization. >> that's an excellent question. it is possible that some of them might be able to continue to do business while others cannot. whether the court is going to paint them with this broad brush. for example, if some of them continue to do business, they can acquire the property and continue to operate it as a family member. all of those details can be worked out but i think that the judge has to really show that despite the criticism of the former president, that he is taking a nuanced view of this and putting it into the proper context. the feeling among many trump supporters is that new york is really going after this guy from pillar to post. they are hitting him criminally and civilly and they're dragging him into court. how the judge deals with this is the about integrity of the court system whether he has objectivity going forward. >> these are the attorneys for donald trump outside. >> at the end of the day, we have a judge that has told us that mar-a-lago is worth $18 million. he has failed to acknowledge what the appellate division said and we'll continue to fight in hopes there is some level of law and order in this country at this point. my faith in the system is leery, i have faith in donald trump. thank you very much. >> james campaigned on getting trump. that's what this is about. an election interference, james, calvin bragg, bonnie willis, merrick garland and joe biden. this is designed to do nothing else but stop president trump as he is leading by ten points in the general election. we have a renegade judge here who is ignoring ruling of the appeals court. president trump's assets are worth way more than what the court would have you believe. but this is all about 2024. do not get it confused. >> this is nothing more than election interference. democrats know that president trump is leading joe biden by wide margins and this is the only way they can stop him. president trump is going to be defiant, he will take a stand and fight back like he always has. >> thank you. >> bill: that's the view and the sound from outside the courtroom, gillian. before we went inside here, james has been mentioned several times. you will learn a lot more about her as the case progresses. she made a statement as well about 15 minutes ago. just for our audience, want the play that right now. watch. >> good morning, everyone. donald trump and the other defendants have committed persistent and repeated fraud. last week we proved that in our motion for summary judgment. today we will prove our other claims. my message is simple, no matter how powerful you are, no matter how much money you think you may have, no one is above the law. and it is my responsibility and my duty and my job to enforce it. the law is both powerful and fragile and today in court we will prove our case. i thank you all for being here and again, justice will prevail. thank you. >> bill: moments ago byron york and jonathan turley and gillian turner and bill hemmer here in new york. professor turley, can a judge find, because it's a civil matter and there is no jury, can trump's lawyers make the case successfully that she is a biased party in this? because they've said for years that she ran on a campaign to get donald trump. >> it's very hard to make that argument bias. i previously brought a selective prosecution motion against a prosecutor and i must tell you, the judges don't like it. they don't want to be pulled into these political issues, much like the statements were made in front of the courthouse. so i expect they will be given a rather short leash, if any leash at all, to make those types of arguments. we're past that stage now. the court is saying i'm here to determine what are the consequences of the of these actions. if you have a political argument to make, go back out onto the stairs of the courthouse. but i also want to note that james' comments ignore one thing. he ran for office on the pledge to bag donald trump. she didn't say on what grounds. she ran to bag him on any grounds and so she doesn't have any more credibility in making these comments than did the trump team, for people who view this as a very political environment. you know, many of us wrote at the time that we were deeply concerned about a candidate for attorney general that was essentially pledging a trophy defendant as the basis for running for office. and she delivered it, you know. so i think she has also damaged her own credibility in that effort. >> gillian: jonathan, just a reminder to folks at home. trump himself sued the attorney general back in 2021 for the reason you just laid out saying the investigation she was conducting was unconstitutional. it seems based on what his lawyers just said at the mic that they are doubling down on that strategy of attacking the adjudicator here. is that a smart legal strategy to go after the judge? he called him a political hack and fraudster. is that wise after the case is in the judge's hands? >> i have criticized the president previously for his attacks on judges. not just the impact on this judge, it is the impact on other judges. they don't like it. that there is a process for trial and appeal. we have the greatest legal system on earth. you can bring credible claims. even if you get a judge not really giving you a fair treatment, there are other judges down the road that you can appeal to. so it is not a legal strategy of any kind. what i thought was interesting was that it was a purely political strategy. they were there making the pitch to voters as opposed to this judge. they weren't actually giving many details of why the president is wrongly accused. >> bill: come back into the conversation, byron york. the attorneys said he is up ten points on joe biden. that appeared to be the case in the poll a week ago. same day the nbc poll said within the margin of error. whatever the weather on that. you have this case, a civil matter. the hush money case also in new york. you've got the documents case in florida. you've got the interference on the 2020 election results in washington, d.c. and atlanta, georgia. every time we see donald trump walk into a courtroom his numbers go higher. do we have an easy conclusion in the nomination process as we've watched that pattern repeat itself over and over again in your view? >> well, in terms of the republican nomination, no candidate has ever caught somebody who is 50 points ahead of them and no candidate with a lead like trump's has actually ever lost. i think what you are seeing here is the former president is pursuing a two-track strategy and one track is his legal defense, the defenses they'll raise in the courtroom. the other is the political defense and what you just saw from jason miller, who was one of trump's top political advisors, was the political argument. and basically they are treating this lawsuit essentially as the fifth indictment. they are putting it in the package with the four indictments that we've seen from trump and putting it under the heading of election interference. jonathan is right about the 2018 new york state attorney general race. it was a race in which all the democratic candidates were pledging to go after trump and the contest was basically who would go after trump the hardest. and james won that contest and now she is the attorney general. she wanted to run for governor in 2022, couldn't get the support, got reelected in 2022 as the attorney general. but as far as trump is concerned, he is looking to make maximum political benefit from this because the other prosecutions of him have been enormously beneficial politically, if you look at the polls. >> gillian: sticking with politics for a moment, president biden seems to have taken off the gloves over the weekend. he really went all in on trump and maga republicans lumping everything together. the showdown over government spending, criminal indictments and civil trials of the former president is facing, he said this is maga republicans last gasp indicating they are about to die out politically. the polls don't reflect that. >> i think you are going to see a lot more from president biden along those lines because president biden has two major liabilities as he seeks re-election. one is his age and we know that large majorities of americans, including democrats, think that he is too old to serve a second term. that is an unfixable problem. he can't do anything about that. the other is the economy. we have had a spate of polls that show americans are still deeply concerned about the economy in this most recent "washington post" poll, 91% of the people said that food prices, they reacted very negatively to the level of food prices, 87% to energy prices. 75% said their own incomes were suffering in inflation. so the president is seeing persistent american negativity about the economy. so those two major liabilities, what do you do? in this case the president has chosen to stress the danger he says maga presents to american democracy and, of course, donald trump is the chief danger in biden's scenario but essentially saying all republicans, including any other republican who might win the nomination, will present this danger of maga extremism. so i think that you will see more of that from the president. >> bill: byron, stand by and bring the professor of law back in with us, jonathan turley, you are still out there, right? >> i am. >> bill: i have no specific legal questions here. so the judge made this ruling last week that went against trump. so why are we in court today? that's question number one. go. >> there are remaining questions about the specifics on the conduct of the defendants, the range of the potential damages, including the possibility of being barred from further business in new york. so these are evidentiary hearings as well as legal hearings. as the judge goes through what the level of culpability and scope of this conduct is. >> bill: just for my legal mind here that i'm working on, is last week like the equivalent of a grand jury indictment? >> well, i think that was a finding by the court that will continue and have a displacement effect on the proceedings here. and i think that it's unlikely, therefore, that you will have a good outcome from the perspective of the trumps. what they are trying to do now is to limit the damage. although i agree that president trump is pursuing this for the optics as well. seeing the president pulled into another courtroom. >> bill: want to take this full guys. bring up the sound and see if there is any comment. >> step aside, step aside. step aside, step aside. >> thank you very much. this is a continuation of the single greatest witch hunt of all ti

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