howard: we've all seen this movie before way too many times, it's washington melodrama beloved by the media, suspenseful story, a ticking clock. it's a self-inflicted crises with a government shutdown hanging in the balance, and journalists start issuing dire warnings of all the people who'd be hurt if the feds can't pay their bills. >> talk about a waste of time, an endless parade of dysfunction. it's real americans who will be paying the price while the elect representatives who are suppose to be working for you, they aren't doing that. >> a government shutdown that will leave roughly 7 million women and children without s.m.a.p. benefits which means they could go hungry. active duty military members will go without pay. howard: the warnings come true and the focus shifts to how long the politicians will keep squabbling before coming to their senses, or there's a last minute if deal. that's what happened last night. and usually that means a stopgap funding measure, in this case about six weeks, that just kicks the can down the road. now, what makes this unusual is it's not a battle between republicans and democrats. in, this was about kevin mccarthy and his republican backers against a dozen or so is gop hard-liners who want deeper spending cuts than the two parties agreed to last spring. unfortunately for the rebels, they are a small minority within the gop which only controls one-third of the government. the democrats provided the votes to bail out the speaker, fueling threats by matt gaetz who said today he will soon file a motion to oust mccarthy. but remember, the temporary deal ducked all the hard choices, so in a few weeks the media get to cover this crazy game of chicken all over again.. i'm how'd kurt and this is -- i'm howard kurtz and this is "mediabuzz." ♪ ♪ howard: joining us now to analyze the coverage here in washington, rich lowry in person, editor-in-chief of national review, and in phoenix, lucy caldwell, an adviser to renew democracy. rich, if the shutdown had happened as most of us expected, would republicans have been blamed? you don't have to take the media's word for it, mitch mcconnell said they would. >> yeah, they certainly would have. that's what the media normally does. and you have republican division, so the whole formula was for republicans to be blamed. i think kevin mccarthy realized that and and did really the only thing he could do stop short -- howard: you think that the republican rebels wanted a shutdown. it wasn't that they were overplaying their hand, they wanted to see the government shut down. why? >> some of them did. because i think they filed to -- failed to learn the lesson, you put a big padlock on the washington monument, look at this disappointed tourist from missouri who wanted to bring with her family -- howard: right. >> no one likes it, even their ordinary lives aren't affectedded, but you end up having to back down anyway. howard: lucy, i would say some lives were affected because people living paycheck to paycheck don't get their paychecks for a while. people don't like government in abstract, but when federal workers, soldiers aren't being paid, air traffic controller training shuts down and border patrol agents don't get paid, they tend to get tick off. >> sure, they tend to get tick thed off, but one of the things that's really irresponsible about, i think, the whole discourse over the past week was if you asked a typical american what ises this fight even about, they might be able to muster something like government shutdown, but they really probably couldn't tell you much more than that. it's very confusing, there's not a lot of effective reporting on the fact that this was around, you know, authorization of continued -- [laughter] continued spending around the debt ceiling, around our looming debt default, and there's a much more systemic issue here that just did not get covered. it becomes the coverage of, you know, do you want to help moms who want to get s.n.a.p. benefits for their kids and put food on the table versus the bad guys. of and that's the fault of the people that you're calling the so-called republican rebels. they really do reflect the maga base, in this case in a way it's ken mccarthy who's rebelling against that -- howard: right. >> but shame on those so-call rebels who really do not do a good job of actually making the policy case really ever, but that that do do whatever it takes to get on newsmax, to make the biggest splash on social media -- howard: right. >> they are not exactly heroses of small government themselves. howard: well, and speaking of kevin mccarthy, here he is sounding rather exasperated after he pulled the rabbit out of the hat and got the house vote to pass yesterday. >> if somebody wants to make a motion against me, bring it. there has to be an adult in the room. i am going to govern with what is best for this country. i don't understand how long will it take to understand that. howard: since mccarthy had to rely on far more democratic votes to get this through which he didn't want to do and matt gaetz was on cnn calling him a liar and saying he's going to file this motion, is the speaker's job in jeopardy? >> yeah, i think it is. but i do think he's been consistently underestimated beginning with the wave of votes he needed to become speaker. the thought's always been he doesn't know when he's doing, this is pointless, he's never going to get it done, and to this juncture, he's been pretty effective. howard: right. >> this'll be a new test. and the iron new york, obvious -- irony, of course, what is matt gaetz going to have to do if he's really going to topple kevin mccarthy as speaker? rely on democratic vet ises. howard: and, you know, if he were to be successful, and i'm not sure he will be, person that gets the job next, are they going to have a magic wand to resolve all these internal conflicts within the republican party? i don't think so. lucy, president biden in signing the bill called it a manufactured crisis caused by extreme maga republicans, but the democrats played a role by insisting on keeping ukraine military aid which many republicans either oppose -- and, of course, republicans insisted on more money for border security, and they both had to drop that in the edge. >> yeah. it's not a manufactured crisis because the thing that we actually don't spend nearly enough time talking about is the fact that we are on an unsustainable trajectory around american spending. it is a manufactured crisis in that both republicans and democrats are happy to, you know, day after day go and pass irresponsible spending bills and that's how we get to this point. and then this kind of phony song and dance where everyone's surprised we have to get another authorization to continue our spending spree. now, the ukraine and immigration piece, that i think reflects a war that is much deeper than anything around spending. i think it's a horrible shame that we didn't get continued aid to the ukraine in that spending, clean spending package, but i think that that is, you know, it's business as usual, it's kicking the can down the road, and they can have that fight tomorrow. howard: well e, on that point, rich, everyone in the capitol now is high-fiving each other, and everybody's breathing a sigh of relief, no shutdown. it's no great victory, it's just a of -- a 6-week delay. >> yeah, it's not quite status quo because we just discussed kevin mccarthy's job could be in jeopardy. clearly, ukraine funding's going to be harder even if some still gets through. and also mcconnell's people kind of neglected, he took a hit because he wanted to get the ukraine funding through and kind of jam the house, and the republicans, no, we're not going to do that. so there were, there's some consequences from this. howard: yeah. there really is a split in the republican party about funding for ukraine. lucy, as much as the media enjoy the drama, don't want anybody to deny it because it keeps you on the air -- [laughter] were the rebels, i'll call them the rebels, the us house hard-liners, were they basically asking kevin mccar mccarthy to do the impossible; that is, deliver what democrats would not acceptsome. >> i don't know. i mean, rebels, whackos, we can call them a lot of different things -- howard: there's quite a spread there between rebels and whackos. [laughter] >> i don't know. although even the best rebels are a little whacko, right? howard: right. >> i would put ge -- gaetz on the whacko side on the spectrum. the reality is matt gaetz, if he does get through his supposed stated mission of getting kevin mccarthy out as speaker matt gaetz is going to be the dog who caught the car, is and his whole group will be the dogs who caught the car. they will have no idea what to do with it. he is this no position to govern. and so i think that, actually, matt gaetz won this week too because he can go back to his district, and he can go back to his audiences and say, look, i'm still the guy out fighting the good fight. howard: yeah. >> even though he's actually just a person -- >> it's also not, i it's important also not to pretend that every single republican who was reluctant to do this deal is matt gaetz. howard: yeah. >> there's a spectrum here -- [inaudible conversations] just want to blow things up. through but there are sincere republicans who really care about -- howard: all right. very briefly, i want to turn to the campaign. rfk jr. reporting that he's going to run as an independent even though his family, of course, has a hallowed democratic history. rich, does he potentially hurt joe biden or donald trump more? >> you know, he might hurt trump more, you know? if the key element of this race or one way to look at it is establishment versus anti-establishment, rfk's more anti-establishment than establishment. we've been arguing about the definition of rebel. usually the media likes rebels. here's a rebel on all sorts of stuff, and he is going to get negative coverage up and down because the fear will be that he hurts joe biden. howard: right. well,ing he was not really getting anywhere in the democratic races this part because the incumbent president has it locked up. but for him to suddenly switch horses, lucy, i wonder whether rich is right. i think he's popular with some republicans. of he's been on fox a lot. but there are all the crazy conspiracy theories. he's antivax. >> it's really hard to say what the introduction do of rfk jr. into the race as an independent does. there are republican donors who believe he hurts biden. we know that from the ad spends they're funding. look, the reason rfk jr. is getting coverage is a couple of fold. one, he's a kennedy, so he's getting coverage that he wouldn't otherwise get. and then there are some other things like he's a crazy anti-vaxer and spreading disinformation, and he's also, seems to be, have some other pretty problematic views like vaguely anti-semite. so i will just say on the rfk jr. point, shame on the democrats for not keeping him in the primary. howard: we've got to go. >> who's to say? howard: ahead, coverage of first impeachment hearing against joe biden, but when we come back, why when democrats say indicted senator bob menendez shouldd resign. ♪up ♪ in your body to help you go... ...free your gut. and your mood will follow. for 8 grams of fiber, try new mirafiber gummies. >> tech: need to get your windshield fixed? safelite makes it easy. >> tech vo: you can schedule in just a few clicks. and we'll come to you with a replacement you can trust. >> man: looks great. >> tech: that's service on your time. schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ i'm sholeh, and i lost 75 pounds with golo. i went from a size 20 to a size 6. before golo, nothing seemed to work. i was exercising for over an hour every day. it was really discouraging. but golo's so easy, the weight just falls off. ♪ ♪ charlotte! charl! every day can be extraordinary with rich, creamy, delicious fage total yogurt. every day, businesses everywhere are asking: is it possible? with comcast business... it is. is it possible to use predictive monitoring to address operations issues? 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>> because i'm innocent. what's wrong with you guys? howard: indictment of a senator is always a big story, but what i would say is with the gold bars and the money stuffed in a jacket that had his name embroideredded on it and passing sensitive information to egypt, the media are mesmerized by this. >> yeah. and also there are pictures of these things, which always helps. we all know inflationary economy, gold is the only way to retain value, right? he said, oh, i have a cuban background, i was worried the government was going to confiscate my money. sure enough, the government took the money. [laughter] obviously, in the background is the politics of trump, and i think at least one of the elements that makes democrats really eager to dump this guy is a little bit like how they wanted to dump al franken for sexual harassment stuff. we're purer e, right? somebody gets indicted on our side of the aisle, we never want to see them again. you have off-year elections coming in new jersey, and it is shocking and one wo think -- howard: yeah, it does get your attention. menendez was indicted once before, i know it's new jersey, a lot of corruption, but i don't sense a lot of sympathy for the guy. >> yeah. and i don't know why menendez didn't just explain that he has a money tree in his backyard that grows hundreds. that really could just clear a lot of this up. no, there is not sympathy for menendez, and there shouldn't be, and i think it is right and good that so many democrats have come out this week and said he's got to go especially as he continues to put forward things that are really offensive like the idea that he's hispanic and that's why they came after him. that's a disgusting thing to say. howard: yeah. >> you're right, he has been through this before. he was indicted before. he got off, but a lot of people were saying this week how could he do this again? look, it's like someone who's pulled over for drunk driving, it's probably not the first time they've driven drunk. in fact, probably the previous driving drunk has caused them to think they can get away with it. bob menendez thought he could get away with it, he can't, and good on the democrats who are saying get him out of here. and hopefully, people like chuck schumer will start saying that more firmly and loudly. >> a sense of entitlement there, right? there's a difference between unethical conduct and an actual crime. howard: he's entitled to a trial. >> yeah. the supreme court has narrowed the definition of corruption. there sob a couple of high -- have been a couple of high profile cases that have failed, so it's not a given that he's going to be convicted, a although sleazily behavior -- howard: you don't necessarily want to be his lawyer. at first no democratic senators told him to resign, you know, like that. and then when cory booker did, his fellow new jersey democrat, after that there was a stampede. the number has risen to 30, although the white house has had little to say about this. >> yeah. he was the key everyone was waiting for. he knows most about new jersey politic, so everyone was waiting for the signal. is helpful to democrats in new jersey or not, and cory said, yes,sing resign -- howard: 51-49 senate. lucy, if menendez is so convinced of his innocence, why did he call the press together and then refuse to take a single question? >> for the same reason that donald trump often thinks that the thing to do when he's up against a wall is call press, because he is trying to redefine the narrative. and he's trying to redefine the narrative to exactly the frame we just talked about, the innocent until proven guilty frame, right? will he be convict or not. i want to remind people, innocent until proven guilty, that's the term of art that we use when we're talking about whether someone should be prosecuted and convicted and whether they should be incarcerate9. we are allowed to have higher standards for people that we send to the u.s. senate or people that we -- howard: fair point. all right, lucy -- >> so keep that in mind. [laughter] howard: lucy caldwell, rich lowry, thanks for joining us. up next, the first biden impeachment hearing. has it moved the ball?or ♪ni ♪ i'm feeling better. cough? congestion? all in one and done with new mucinex kickstart. aaaaah! ah! hated that. headache? better. ah! fever? body pain? better now. aaaaah! new mucinex kickstart gives all in one and done relief with a morning jolt of instant cooling sensation. it's not cold and flu season. it's comeback season. have you ever considered getting a walk-in tub? well, look no further. when you purchase your brand-new safe step walk-tub you'll receive a free shower package. yes! a free shower package. and if you call today you'll also receive $1,500 off your entire order! call now to receive a free shower package plus $1,500 off your brand-new safe step walk-in tub! - [female narrator] they line up by the thousands. each one with a story that breaks your heart. like ravette... every step, brought her pain. their only hope: mercy ships. the largest floating civilian hospital in the world. bringing free surgeries to people who have no other hope. $19 a month will help provide urgently needed surgery for so many still suffering. so don't wait, call the number on your screen. or donate at mercyships.org. howard: most of the media weren't exactly applauding house republicans as they held their first hearing in the impeachment inquiry into president biden. the coverage and the hearing predictably partisan. >> as we all know, the bidens had nothing to sell except the brand which was joe biden. >> my democratic colleagues is have done a great job of showing there's absolutely zero evidence linking president joe biden to any wrongdoing. zero, none. >> i do not believe that the current evidence would support articles of impeachment. that is something that an inquiry has to establish. howard: joining us thousand in st. louis, ohio began giddy who was -- hogan gidley and michael la rosa, former special assistant to president biden who has informally advised the hunter biden legal team. hogan, no new evidence involving joe biden, no smoking gun, waste of time. your thoughts. >> yeah. i'm shocked by all of that. it's overwhelming. there are mountains of evidence linking hunter and joe biden to several business deals at this point. look, while there is no new news to the people on cha committee, the american people don't know a lot of this because the legacy media has refused to cover it. fox has cone a good job, but so many others out there just were silent on it. 527 immediate media the legacy immediate -- minutes the legacy media spent on donald trump, but 0 minutes on hunter and joe. look, 20 shell companies, $25 million, 20 phone calls, 200 suspicious activity reports, whatsapp messages, text messages, e-mails, fake e-mail accounts from joe biden. i mean, the mountains are growing and growing and growing here. the american people deserve to know what happened. i think this committee's getting to the bottom of it because, look, real quickly, took 'em five months to come up with this information and package it for the american people. the fbi and doj had it for five years, so it shows these federal agencies are designed to prosecute some and protect others. howard: michael, the all-day hearing, some of it carried by cnn, msnbc had nothing, was mostly tedious when you get into the anytimety gritty of it. -- nitty-gritty of it. did it move the needle. >> >> no, not at all. and the reason why you know it didn't move the needle is because the next morning "fox & friends" went back to the border coverage as their first a block and didn't even get to the impeachment hearing until 20 minutes into their show. "morning joe" led with it. democrats were delighted with how the day went. democrats showed up preparessed, ready to perform, and they had a ton of viral moments. they had a lot of fun with it. howard: the day before the meeting, the committee released -- saying one thing tony brings to to the table that i'm willing to sign over my family's brand with. went on to say i'm not going to give this bully the keys to my family's only asset. that because not sound good. >> it doesn't. and these things aren't clandestine, they're not behind closed doors anymore. you have actual business partners from hunter biden out publicly now talking about joe biden being the big guy. this money obviously changed hands. no one asked what hunter did to get it. we know it all went there because we have the bank reports. democrats don't want to talk about the evidence, the witnesses, whether they be irs whistleblowers or business partners with hunter, they're just going to talk about trump because they don't want to be confronted with the fact that their boss could face serious political peril and, eventually, legal trouble as well. howard: no argument with your trump point. michael, what's your take on the hunter tragedy? because while his foreign influence peddling may be sleazy, may not be criminal or impeachment for his father, doesn't it look awful for owe? he puts it that way express sitly. >> you mean the way neil bush sol his brand or jared kushner just took $2 billion on his way out of the house -- howard: i'm not saying it's unprecedented. >> so the rules are changing thousand? howard: no, but you're deflecting. doesn't it look bad? >> no. hunter was an investor in a private company. he received payment for his work just like any other person. i assume people in the republican party understand what it's like to do business because they do a lot of it. hunter was doing business. he earned compensation for that. and this notion that hunter was supplying the biden family with money is just insane. that -- when he was, in 2017, president biden and jill biden had made book deals worth $17 million. they didn't need money from hunter biden. howard: got it. well, we'll see how the further hearings -- >> jared and ivanka, jared and ivanka were millionaire business people before the white house. hunter biden was a crackhead. i'm sorry, there's a big difference. >> hogan, they worked in the white house and took hundred from the saudi government. >> this were millionaires before, michael. howard: next on "mediabuzz," the fox business debate again without donald trump where the other candidates were left to squabble on their own.your ♪ to jump into the fun and join in the celebration. to help get you ready, your aspen dental team is celebrating 25 years of affordable care with an epic anniversary savings event. right now, new patients without insurance get a free full exam and x-rays. plus, everyone can get 20% off their treatment plan. but hurry, because while the season won't last, the memories you make together will. aspen dental. book today. hi, my name is damion clark. and if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. all of these plans include a healthy options allowance. a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent, and over-the-counter items like vitamins, pain relievers, first-aid supplies and more. the healthy options allowance is loaded onto a prepaid card each month. and whatever you don't spend, carries over from each month. other benefits on these plans include free rides to and from your medical appointments. you pay nothing for covered prescriptions, all year long. all plans have dental coverage which includes 2 free cleanings a year, fillings, and a yearly exam. they also have vision coverage including vision exams and a yearly allowance towards eyewear such as lenses or contacts. and hearing coverage, which includes routine hearing tests and coverage for hearing aids. you'll also have a $0 copay for the shingles and other routine vaccines at in-network retail pharmacies. plus, your doctor, hospital and pharmacy may already be part of our large humana networks. so, call the number on your screen now to speak with a licensed humana sales agent. wouldn't you love benefits like a monthly allowance to help pay for eligible groceries, utilities, rent and over-the-counter items? so, if you have medicare and medicaid, call the number on your screen now and speak with a licensed humana sales agent. if you're eligible, they can even help enroll you over the phone in a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. so, call now. humana. a more human way to healthcare. only the new sleep number smart beds let you both sleep at your ideal level of comfort. your sleep number setting. and now, all of our new next gen smart beds have temperature benefits. save $400 on the new sleep number c4 smart bed. now only $1,499. sleep next level. shop now only at sleep number howard: the fox business debate at the reagan library was loud, row cause and a second chance for the republican contenders to boost themselves at the expense of the man who wasn't there. >> the former president, you know, he's missing in action tonight. he's had a lot to say about that. he should be here explaining his comments to try to say that pro-life protections are somehow a terrible thing. >> joe biden hides in his basement and won't answer as to why he's raising the debt the way he's done, and donald trump hides behind the walls of his golf clubs and won't show up here to answer questions. >> i, honestly, every time i hear you, i feel a little bit dumber for what you say. we can't trust you -- [inaudible conversations] >> they disagree -- have a legitimate disagreement, that's what i would say. >> sir, we'll have to cut your mic, and i don't want to do that, i don't. >> so that debate was a disaster. we learn nothing. the real housewives headache more sense than that. >> last night was an absolute crap show, it was than sense. there was nothing redeeming about it. howard: joining us now, jim geraghty, senior political correspondent for national review, and kevin corke who covers the white house for fox news. jim, the media was looking for a breakout moment, and nikki haley may have had one, we just saw, chris christie may have had one. fairly or unfairly, were the other candidates relegated by the media to what many are are calling the kids' that table? >> look, it is very tough to stand out on a debate stage of seven candidates. i think a lot of folks have said it's time for this stage to get a little smaller, that the 1%ers probably don't these to be up there -- howard: they're all talking the at the same time. >> there's that, yeah. [laughter] candidates don't realize how much cross-talk doesn't work, and it's not good for anybody -- howard: nobody. >> stop talking because you're talking. howard: thank you for that. [laughter] stop interrupting me while i'm talking. nikki haley might have attracted donald trump's attention because now he's calling her bird brain. kevin, the moderators tried their best, but when the candidates are constantly talking over ooh each other and you can't make out what they're saying, it doesn't give any of them a chance really to break out. >> and that's the real issuer here -- issue here. the key and if you're talking to the viewers ask not just sort of trying to figure out how can i get that sound bite in -- howard: right. >> -- you could really make a difference in your campaign. i felt like everyone was looking for that dunk. you know it's like in basketball, take the open shot, hit the jumper. don't try to go for the dunk every time because sometimes you're going to mess up on a great play. howard: and sometimes it looks force. i wish they had cut somebody's mic a couple times, because it might have been a lesson to all of them to wait their turn. jim, has trump's huge lead kind of taken the drama out of these debates? the ratings dropped somewhat, 2, 3 million for the second debate. is there a widespread media perception, right or wrong, that then of these candidates have much chance of catching him? >> yeah. first of all, that perception is there. i think the only thing that could have increased the ratings for the debate more than trump changing his mind than if taylor swift was in the audience. [laughter] see, this is the -- the the debates right now are the race to see who's the distant second, and that's not all that meaningful. howard: kevin, i wrote a column this week saying the media with in reality are practically declaring the primaries over. even stories that are not about debates say, well, when trump and biden face off, or it just seems to be the default position. of course, journalists would love a hot race on either pseudo, but when -- side, but when ron desantis is at 15% and trump's at 50-something, it's hard to imagine an upset unless he gets tripped up in iowa or new hampshire. >> the big thing is, howie, there are those on that stage who are hoping that something -- and they may not admit or acknowledge this, but they're saying i'm here just in case. i'm the insurance policy in case something keeps the former president from actually being able to be the nominee. howard: if he falls off the stage -- >> something, right. [laughter] i think the real miss here is if you're really at the kids' table and the truth is most of these candidates are, it doesn't really have the drama that i think we're looking for. howard: well, i think that's an astute observation. jim, i love policy, but should there have been more questions about front-runner? for instance, the fraud trial ruling against him and his company rather than just the setting up the internal squabblesesome. >> so i'm not going to give too much grief to the moderators. i think they tried to cover a wide range of topics this is this debate. when you have seven candidates on stage, you ask questions for the first three or four, and then they change topics, and the candidates who didn't get a question about that topic, before i answer that question -- howard: yeah, before you know it. >> and you're kind of flipping between topics, and it turned into. >> verbal jumble which nobody had a particularly good, clear message through. howard: had they asked a lot of questions about trump, i suppose they would have gotten predictable criticism, although it'd be interesting to see whether it followed the route of chris christie and even ron desantis saying he should be here. but he wasn't there. and on that point, does this -- you know, all these genius pundits said, you know what? if donald trump doesn't show up, he's doing republican -- dissing republican voters, there's going to be a backlash, but this seems to vindicate his decision because it's not hurting him. >> it's interesting, i listened to kellyanne conway make the comment several weeks ago that it's always useful to be in the mix the share your ideas, but in this instance when someone is so far, i mean, what's the lead now, 30, 40 points? howard: it depends on whether you look at national or state polls, but even state polls, because it's a state-by-state the race as you know, he's got a really sizable lead. >> so why risk it? that's what i would say. you get out there when you need to, but this then, let them hash it out. howard: what if i would say this hurts democracy, and the guy who wants to be the nominee should be standing there even if it means fending off attacks many. >> first of all, it does hurt democracy. i think it's good for candidates to make their case this front of voters. i also think we're establishing a precedent where if you're a front-runner this future presidential primaries, why should you show up? there's certainly no punishment here. howard: whether you're ahead by 5 points or 50 points. >> trump has roughly half the the republican party is hell bent that donald trump should be the nominee finish. howard: no matter what. >> if you want to beat trump, you need to consolidate that other roughly half the party and, unfortunately, all these guys having a really hard time doing that because there's seven people on stage. howard: right. they're potentially splitting whatever the, i don't want to say anti-trump -- >> the nontrump. howard: yes, very good. a true diplomat. >> but i interrupted -- [laughter] howe hu it's already. i'll have you back in a little bit. after the break, donald trump threatens to retaliate against two major networks and fights the ruling that could jeopardize his company. ♪ ♪ (eagle screeches) (energetic music plays) there he is! it's right there! ♪ oh, he's straight ahead. he's straight ahead. straight ahead. go go go. ♪ cover more ground in the kia sportage turbo-hybrid. kia. movement that inspires. howard: the thing about donald trump is he tells you exactly what he plans to do. on truth social he suggested he'd look into yanking tv licenses. comcast, with its one-side and vicious coverage by nbc news and in particular msnbc, should be investigated for its country-threatening treason. i say up front openly and proudly that when i win the presidency of the united states, they and other of the lame stream media will be thoroughly scrutinized for their knowingly dishonest and corrupt coverage of people, things and events. so, hogan -- >> the news network that that, that is most critical of him should be taken off the air. this is not a reach. i could go back and talk about nazi germany. >> it's scary to hear this kind of thing. i don't know what is bluster and what is actual intent. howard: and we're back with hogan gidley and michael la rosa. even if you believe nbc has been terribly unfair to donald trump, what's the treason in lots of presidents and presidential candidates don't like their coverage. >> well, it's more than unfair, or howie. there's a reason that the popularity of the legacy media sits somewhere between congress and covid. it's because they've been proven time and time again to have lied to us about some of the biggest issues and problems we face this country. fox news wouldn't be a channel, you wouldn't exist had it not been for all the malfeasance and failures of the legacy media for decades in this country. not to mention you look at covid, what they did there lying to the american people, the russia hoax on no evidence. they ran with stories all the time and treat them as fact when they're not. and the real problem here is so many of these quote-unquote news networks try to pass off their opinion as news whereas fox does a good job differentiating between the two. most networks don't. it's a problem in this country, ask that's a main reason why so many others around america are turning to alternative sources for news, because they're not getting it from the mainstream media. howard: all right. well, michael, control of the regulatory agencies, should we be concerned thatnd donald trump might actually shut down certain networks he doesn't like? and what about the use of the word treason? >> yeah, i mean, it's hard to know what is bark or bite with donald trump. i think he's mostly bite. if joe biden were to say something similar about fox, can you imagine what would be happening right now in it's also, you know, going back to hogan's point about being let down by the media, you know, telling lies has become an expensive program decision. and i think, you know -- proposition. i think here on this network you guys have done a good job of trying to correct some of the errors that have taken place about the 2020 election which the president won by 7 million votes, and everybody knows it. and so i think that's a dangerous road to go down. howard: also on truth social, hogan, let me put this up on the screen, the president said this about general mark milley who just stepped down as chairman of the joint chiefs: this guy turned out to be a woke train wreck who, if the fake news reporting is correct, was actually dealing with china to give them a heads up on the thinking of the president of the united states. this is an act so egregious that in times gone by, the punishment would have been death. now, hogan, trump did not say, as a lot of headlines had it, that milley should be executed, but by using the word death, could he be, as the "wall street journal"'s conservative editorial page put it, encouraging some violent extremists to take a shot at milley in. >> no, he's not encouraging anything of the sort. but, listen, you tell me what it is, because i don't know. if a president of the united states had military plans in place and prepared to attack our foreign adversary like china, our biggest one on the global stage right now, and your head general says he would with alert the country you're about to attack, you tell me what that is. it's egregious, what mark milley was doing behind donald trump's back if the reporting, of course, is true, and he is a woke train wreck. i mean, talking about his testimony in front of congress and what he would focus on with different white privileges and transgender in the military and all that nonsense, people understand you want your military folks to focus on protecting the people of this country. and too often what we see time and time again is it is not their focus. mark milley did a disservice to this country, and i think donald trump is right to point that out. howard: well, let me -- i've just got to put in a little context, and we'll let you go. milley testified that in conjunction with other u.s. officials, he was reassuring his chinese counterpart that the u.s. was not planning an attack on china as they apparently believed or some of them believed. also i do have to say this fairness, trump was punching back against criticism from milley in an interview with the atlantic's jeff ily -- jeffrey goldberg. >> i was going to say hardly mark milley is the first question to question donald trump's mental capacity. i mean, the republican leadership in the senate, nancy pelosi, world leaders think the guy's a lunatic, so it's really not hard -- howard: he can't question his mental capacity, he call him a wannabe dictator -- >> i think the call with china, right, worried about what the guy might do. howard: he says he was trying to deescalate. >> okay. bottom line, it's part of a larger narrative republicans having being anti-military. it's not just what he said about general milley, it's about what he said about the people who die for this country calling them losers and suckers, according to the atlantic as well -- >> he didn't say that. >> it's what they've done with politics taking military families' benefits, what they're doing now on the floor of the senate with promotions for -- howard: senators. [inaudible conversations] >> he rebuilt the military. >> oh -- [laughter] okay. >> he rebuilt the military after obama and biden gutted it -- [inaudible conversations] many front of the military and talks about himself. >> and you saw what happened yesterday, and is you saw what happened finish. >> and he cleared out the v.a. when they weren't serving the veterans, and biden put the 8,000 people we fired back into place, and they weren't even doing their job. they were hurting the military. don't tell me that the left is supportive of the military. they are not and haven't been for a long time. howard: all right -- >> the president insulted gold star families, called them losers and suckers -- howard: you guys have not -- >> he did not call them that. i was there for that. that was not true, and you know it. howard: you guys are not short on insults today. i want to get to this ruling by the new york judge, this is the civil suit filed by the state attorneys general that trump organization, donald trump in the judge's view, did commit fraud in real estate evaluations, both with business licenses and this clearly poses a threat to trump's company. hogan, do you think this is, as the new york time says, strikes at the image of donald trump being a successful businessman which basically launched him to the presidency? >> no. in fact, it does the opposite. look, the left can't keep him from running for president, they can't keep him from winning the presidency, so they're going to attack him, now his businesses? they've gone after his staff, his family, his friends, his attorneys, and now they're trying to take away the empire that he built. he's an american success story. he employs thousands of people across this country. he is a billion delay businessman who has done amazing things across the spectrum. and the fact that they're attacking him on this, why didn't the bank come forward and say, wait a minute, there was fraud here? they didn't, because donald trump repaid all of his loans and did so without business. the big banks, in fact, ruined this country's housing market and didn't get fined or anyone get fire for it. so it's the all ridiculous. it's purely political. letitia james ran after get -- on getting trump. howard: i agree the banks all got repaid, but here's what he said, put it up on the screen, about this judge: the wide spread attack against me, my family, my supporters has devolved into a new un-american depth at the hands of a deranged new york state judge. >> this is a joke. even trump's own lawyer said he inflated his wealth. nobody believes he's even a billionaire. howard: i don't know what you base that on. >> the guy went bankrupt twice as a businessman -- howard: he didn't go bankrupt, the organization -- >> right. and then as president, he had the worst jobs record since herbert hoover -- howard: you're off -- >> joe biden -- howard: you're off the point. >> no, it's hart -- part of economics. >> i guess he should have had his son just rake in millions from ukraine, china -- howard: i knew have a one-liner. you've both gotten them in. thanks very much. still to come, how the press is handling two presidents visiting autoworkers this michigan. ♪ ♪ sleep more deeply. and wake up rejuvenated. with purple's new mattresses fall asleep 20% faster have less aches and pains and sleep uninterrupted. visit purple.com or a store near you. you could look at that person, they look normal, they're in school, they outside playing with the other kids, but every day isn't like that. marzavion's pain is kind of localized. with dakhiyon, he hurts from the top of his head to the bottom of his feet. the only cure for sickle cell right now is a blood stem cell transplant. the best potential match will come from your ethnic background. they deserve a chance to live a normal life. every day, businesses everywhere are asking: is it possible? with comcast business... it is. is it possible to use predictive monitoring to address operations issues? we can help with that. can we provide health care virtually anywhere? we can help with that, too. is it possible to survey foot traffic across all of our locations? yeah! absolutely. with the advanced connectivity and intelligence of global secure networking from comcast business. it's not just possible. it's happening. howard: the media kept hailing it as historic as joe biden showed up in michigan. >> your companies were in trouble, but now they're doing incredibly well and, guess what? you should be doing incredibly well too. howard: after the president stood with striking uaw workers, donald trump met with a different group of autoworkers the next day. >> you're going to lose your beautiful way of life are. it's a transition to hell. howard: we're back with kevin corke and jim geraghty. kevin, the sight of president biden in the uaw cap on the picket line was stunning. do you think the press overplayed this as a big win for president biden? >> i think they did, and i think that was intentional. i think there's this idea, howie, where the people say if the president doesn't fall over, it's a big deal. howard: no sandbag. >> yeah, he didn't trip, he didn't fall off a bike, and i think that's part of the narrative. i didn't think it was much -- i'm not going to say it was much ado about nothing, real jobs, real people, but i i thought they overhyped it. howard: it looked like biden seized on the fact that trump said he was going to michigan, whether that's true or not, the former president was visiting a non-union -- >> yeah, for all his flaws, he's good at doing things that are a little surprising. you don't usually hear republican candidates say i'm going to talk to autoworkers. we can argue how many were part of the usual trump crowd. he narrowly won that county. that's actually a fairly bro-trump area, but -- pro-trump area, but any other republican candidate could have done the same thing, and they chose not to. howard: excellent point. president biden's scheduled to speak in a few minutes about the deal that averted the government shutdown. he gave a speech a couple of days ago, kevin, in which he had trump by name, which he doesn't usually do, he talked about the constitution, he talked about trump, this had toot with the -- to do with the comments about general milley after promising to govern through vengeance and vindictiveness, excuse me. is that effective? this comes back to your first answer, are the media effectively on his side? >> i think they really are, and i do think that's an affect we've fact -- effective fact a pattern. if the president will name donald trump by name, this draws the distinction he's trying to draw. the problem is when you start measuring them person against person, especially when the debates happen if they're both the nominee, that may backfire. we'll have to see. howard: your thoughts. >> polling keeps indicating large majorities of americans don't want a trump versus biden rematch, and yet there are two hen who really want to go up against each other, donald trump and joe biden. joe biden's elevate ising trump by talking about him as if the he's already the -- howard: oh, i see. a lot of media people are doing that as well. and at the same time, i have the point out that we all thought during the midterms when biden gave a speech on democracy that that was going to fall flat, oh, you should be talking about the economy, and it probably helped democrats. >> debatable. howard: you're giving me an inquisitive look here. >> the republican candidates, the doug mastrianos, folks like that, quality republican candidates actually tanked -- howard: got tata cut off your mic. thanks, guys. i'm how'd kurtz. sub vibe to my -- subscribe to hi podcast, media buzz meter. we're back here next sunday, 11 eastern, with the only media analysis show on national television. ♪ ♪ so i choose new neuriva ultra. unlike some others, it supports 7 brain health indicators, including mental alertness from one serving. to help keep me sharp. try new neuriva ultra. think bigger. dude, what're you doing? 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