going on there. and we're tracking a rally for ramaswamy. vivek ramaswamy surging in a new fox poll ahead of the first gop debate now just days away. today he hits atlanta, but first he stops by here. can he break out in the first the debate, and he turn his traction with voters into cash from donors? we'll ask him. welcome, everybody. i'm neil cavuto, my thanks to my buddy charles payne for filling in last week, always appreciate that. meanwhile, we will be having vivek ramaswamy a little bit later on this hour and get a gauge of where he's going in this race and his latest sort of commandments that maybe he and other republican candidates might be a good idea to follow. they're pretty interesting, pretty revealing. first right now to craig herrera in san diego, california, where they're bracing for hilary, i guess. what's the latest, craig? >> unbelievable, neil. people have been getting san bags ready, they're getting ready for the rain event. it's a category four storm right now, hurricane. by the time it gets here, probably not that intense. of course, it's going to run into cooler water, we'll see what it does, but it is going to have plenty of rain once it gets closer to san diego, home to 3 million people across the county, 1.3 million people in the city alone and, of course, 115,000 military, active military men if women out here as well. so here's what it rooks like, it's a category four, continues to track up to the north/northwest. and by the time we get into the around, we'll start to get some heavy rain. some rain has already moved into san diego county and imperial county closer to the deserts where they're dealing withed flooding. the afternoon moves into portions of the desert, into the great basin of nevada. take a look at a tomorrow, the heavy rain is going to really impact san diego, riverside county right through the coachella valley. you're talking about places like palm springs. we could also get gusty winds especially over san diego which could mean power outages, so people are being urged to not only get e the sandbags ready, but also to make sure you've got medication, water, food, whatever you need in case you lose power because if it does go out, who knows how long, right in we also have tropical storm warnings in place for some of these winds to be pretty excessive over the area of san diego. now, we haven't seen these in recorded history, so this is pretty rare for san diego, and the amount of rain going through wednesday with, the shades of orange, you think about the topography here, we've got the san diego mountains across the east county that are going to wring out a lot of rain, up to a foot in the highest elevations. the desertses to the east side can't really absorb the moisture we also have the winds to contend with especially as the center gets close to san diego, 4:00. as what's left of hilary moves over, the winds could be intense and impressive. that could be the potential there. we will watch this closely, and when you're talking about the heavy rain over portions of, say, the sanaany -- santa inez mountains, the san gabriel valley and the mountains that go up along the valley could also be dealing with some flooding. burn scar areas, it takes a good 2-3 years for the vegetation to grow back. and what you're looking at here, the santa rosa mountains, here you've got the san jacinto mountains which is where they've got the tram. you can look back on the valley, so palm springs to coachella, most people know the music festival or the country festival that goes on there, that's all desert area. these are all washes where we don't have vegetation that can absorb the moisture. you head up to places like death valley, even las vegas, nevada, think about all the concrete that's out there and the amount of people that are in the area. now, with the moisture in place you think about the oil on the rah roadways. now, oil and water don't mix, of course, as we know. having said that, a lot of the oil's going to come to the surface which is going to make for some slick roads out here. the last time, by the way, we had a tropical storm make landfall in california was back in 1939 in long beach, neil. and i'll tell you what, that was the same year they released the wizard of oz and gone with the wind. we're certainly not in kansas anymore. we're preparing here in san diego and los angeles especially as we go into sunday and monday. the beaches, by the way, are going to be a concern with rip currents and some large swells out there. no storm surge, but large swells for sure. neil: yeah. it's just wild, craig. that ominous if event that's coming, you'd never know looking behind you right now. thank you for that, craig herrera in san diego, california. as a craig pointed out, they have not seen anything the likes of this in about 84 years. they're familiar with mudslides, wildfires, nothing like this. robert simmons has the hey task of getting -- can heavy task of getting them prepared for that, manager of emergency services in irvine. robert, good to have you and thank you very much for taking the time. what are we looking at here in. >> yeah, thanks, neil. yeah, we are the city of irvine, we are all hazards first response agency, so, you know, whether it's preparing for wildfire events, you know, tropical storms like hilary or anything else, we're going to vary our preparedness levels, obviously, to tailor it to what the hazard is. but in terms of just our preparedness posture and just making sure that all the response staffer -- staff that are going to respond to our emergency operations center as well as out in the field are prepare prepared that that doesn't change. so is i'm happy to be here with you, neil, thanks. neil: and i'm happy to have you to help us out. we've already known some moves that the state has made directly or indirectly on its own or with others, for example, a spacex launch this was scheduled for this weekend will be pushed off until at least monday. we know of three sunday baseball games that have pushed off just in case, similarly we're hearing that a lot of airlines are issuing waivers to and from those with intent to go to either mexico or california. but beyond that, what do you tell residents in irvine and the surrounding area to do? >> yeah, absolutely. so, you know, anytime that we have a hazardous event that is encroaching on our city, you know, one of the the big pieces to that, obviously there are a lot of internal processes and checklists and taxes that we go -- tasks that we go through whether it's with our public works department, law enforcement, our county fire department that we work with, but really what's most important is that we're pushing that information out to the public. so we've been doing a lot of social media, a lot of information pushed out on our web site to residents in the regards to where they can pick up sandbags in the event that, you know, in the past that they've had flooding, you know, encroach upon their property or within their home. we push information out about just, you know, general safety, staying off the roads. it was mentioned just a few minutes ago that, you know, when we haven't had a lot of rain in a while, typically summer months, and then we get a lot, you have a lot of oil really rising to the surface on the streets which make the roads a lot slicker. so just telling people, you know, if you're planning on, you know, going out and being social this weekend, this might not be the weekend to be social. just kind of, you know, hunker down, watch a movie -- [laughter] and not go out on the roadways if you don't have to. neil: all right. good advice, all, robert. thank you for taking the time. i know you're going to have a pretty busy weekend. robert simmons of irvine, california, the emergency services manager there. our other big weather story is what's unfolding right now in maui where we have reports of 114 known dead, 1,000 till unaccount for: robert ray is there with the very latest. >> reporter: neil, good morning to you and everyone watching. yes, dead of night here in maui and, indeed, this is still a very active situation as we move to almost two weeks since this fire began and search teams are still on the ground in lahaina, rescue dogs when the sun comes up will continue to search through that town that is, unfortunately, just gone. looking for human ray remains. -- human remains. 114 dead, and that number will likely rise. watch. [background sounds] >> reporter: as the death toll climbs on the island of maui, this is mounting can criticism over the response to these deadly whilefires including a decision made by local officials not to sound disaster sirens. >> do you regret not sounding the sirens? >> i do not. >> reporter: one day after defending that decision, the head of maui's emergency management agency resigned citing health reasons. he claims many residents would have gone inland and into the flames if the alarm sound ised, a strategy typically used before sue tsunamis. hawaii's attorney general will launch an independent review into state and local agencies, but some folks say there are bigger needs. >> people need, like, food, they need clean water, they need, you know, basic stuff like toilet paper and paper towels, baby wipes. >> reporter: nonprofits and volunteers on the island are stepping up delivering meals to thousands of displaced people. >> what's ahead is a lot more supplies, a lot more resources and a lot more expertise and mental health to deal with this trauma long term. >> reporter: meanwhile, search efforts have expanded from the historic town of lahaina to other oceanside communities. cadaver dogs and rescuers have scoured more than half of the burn area, and crews now facing their biggest task, trying to identify and process human remains as anxious familiesing want to hear from missing loves one -- loved ones. >> some family that we lost in the fire. so if i don't stay with busy and doing the things that i do, i'm not going to be able to cope with the situation right now. >> reporter: the beauty of maui and yet the search continues for the souls that perished expect families are mourning right now. and the, i think, important message this morning as the search does still continue is that maui is open, meaning the people here need the tourists to come in and continue with their plans to come here. the folks here need to see the faces from around the world. this is a place that lives on tourism, and it is open to everyone. maui is not gone. lahaina is, and they're working to try ask and resolve that. meanwhile, a lot of questions as to, you know, why the sirens didn't go off and how the peoplety not get out. the attorney general looking into her own investigation here as to the response this morning and throughout the next few days, and president biden will be here on monday, neil. and i'm also told by a federal source that i've spoken to that as they continue to search, unfortunately, they do expect the number of the dead to rise significantly. neil? neil: robert ray, thank you very much for all of that. in the meantime, the big debate is just a few days away right now. we'll be chatting with vivek ramaswamy who is suddenly surging, and that could make him a target in that debate. after this. ( ♪ ) ( ♪ ) can't stop adding stuff to your cart? get the bank of america customized cash rewards card, choose the online shopping category and earn 3% cash back. lowe's knows a style refresh is even more refreshing ...when it's at the right price. that's why, we've we pull our favorite looks together in-store and in in the app. so it is easy to get the look you want for less. you got this. we got you. it's true, though - you won't overpay for glasses if you shop at america's best. they offer two pairs and a free, quality eye exam starting at just $79.95. the exam alone is worth at least 59 bucks. i can see from your expression that you find that shocking. and you're actually speechless. ...aaaaaaaaand, you don't have ears. two pairs and a free exam for just $79.95. book an exam today at americasbest.com. it's true, though - you won't overpay for glasses if you shop at america's best. neil: okay, you didn't hear it from me, but we're four days a away from the fox debate oops, i said it, didn't i? obviously, tension building up ahead of that big day. alexis mcadams trailing the candidates in des moines, iowa, where, of course, they are getting prepared as well, some who hope to make the debate stage the, others not. we're also focusing on some trips in and out of atlanta. alexis, what's the latest? >> reporter: hey, neil, i can't believe you leapt that scent -- let that secret slip. we'll have to keep a close eye on that. here in des moines, iowa, the iowa state fair is wrapping up after several days here of fried food and fun. now i the campaign and stump speeches heading to atlanta, georgia. we just saw governor chris christie, former governor of new jersey, on the stage talking to a pretty large crowd there and, boy, did he hit former president donald trump hard. watch. >> how about we do this, this time: we nominate someone who we know in our hearts will put the country first and not their self-interests first, will put your children and grandchildren ahead of their own children and grandchildren in how about we nominate and elect someone like that. >> reporter: now, other gop heavy hitters besides christie campaigning in georgia friday, tim scott, ron desantis, nikki haley and mike pence all in the same city where the former president was just hit with his fourth indictment. all of those candidates talked about several issues, but the economy, neil, is really the top issue for voters. that's something they're all talking about, and it's a topic that's going to come up in the debate in milwaukee. today we're going to see former arkansas governor asa hutchinson on the fair, he's trying to show off his personality, talk about agriculture and his connections to arkansas that he can try to relate to iowans as he tries to gain more momentum to qualify for the debate. we did talk to him one-on-one. watch this. how are you connecting with voters on the ground here in iowa in how do you plan to talk with them one-on-one? >> well, that's the easy part of campaigning, because i come from an agricultural state that iowa identifies with. i have a very common background. i cleaned out chicken houses and had a cattle farm with my dad. and so i relate to iowa. but it's also the greatest conversations. they ask tough questions and they like clear answer as. and so getting a great response here. >> reporter: yeah, tough questions and voters say they're going to be listening closely to the questions that bret and martha and listening closer to those candidates' answers about what they would do different for america, specifically about the economy. neil, everyone we talk to here in iowa says they're paying more for groceries and everything else than they ever have before, so they want to know what somebody else would to stop that. we'll keep an eye on that, neil. neil: thank you very much, alexis. ful we'll be speaking to vivek momentarily. lucas tomlinson at the white house where the president has been touting the fact the economy's not nearly so bad as some voters are perceiving it to be, so so he's going to get out on offense to get the message out things are improving. don't know how that's resonating. hey, lucas. >> reporter: hey, neil. the president might think the economy's in good shape and bidenomics is working, but he appears to be one of the few americans actually saying that. a new fox news poll tells a completely different story. about 80% of voters, as you can see here, think the economy is only in fair or poor shape and only 20% of american voters think that the economy is doing well. now, yesterday at camp david president biden hosted the leaders of south korea and japan. the summit was largely based onramping up military cooperation between the three nations, but president biden also discussed economic issues, neil. >> we've committed to launch a new what we call a supply chain early warning system. which it will alert our missions to disruptions of certain products and materials like critical minerals or batteries so we can get ahead of the issues as we, they appear. >> reporter: now back home the highest interest rates in decades leading to problems in the housing market. here's the redfin ceo if your show yesterday, neil. >> it's also made people more reluctant to list their home because they don't want to give up that 3% mortgage. so the sellers are not selling, the buyers are not buying, prices ared holding up because inventory is still very low. >> reporter: high gas and grocery prices continue eating away at americans' saving. credit card debt in this country is now more than a trillion dollars, and the typical american household spent $70 more in july than it did two years ago -- $700, to buy the same amount of goods. here's congressman darrell issa. >> it's the economy, stupid. he hasn't quite figured out what it takes to make the economy good without inflation, something that several of his predecessors saw and did. >> reporter: now president george h.w. bush enjoyed an 89% approval rating after the gulf war but just a year later thanks to comments like carville's, he lost the election. neil? neil: yeah, we forget that. these are like snapshots in time. one snap, they're shot. they're done. great job, my friend. lucas tomlinson following all of that. do any of you remember thomas paine's common sense? i covered that before the revolutionary war, but he synthesized the whole meaning for us to go to war with the brits. vivek ramaswamy has come up with something very similar to justify getting back to our roots. it's his commandments, if you will. and they're creating quite aty. quite a stir. after this. he snores like an angry rhino. you've never heard an angry rhino. baby i hear one every night... every night. okay. i'll work on that. save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add a base. shop now only at sleep number. ♪ ♪ neil: all right, getting ready for the big debate and polling positions that are still very, very fluid right now. they're showing vivek ramaswamy sort of like the latest candidate that seems to have gotten an unexpected surge. we're going to explore that with the presidential candidate momentarily here. but mark penn, meanwhile, former clinton adviser with us, francesca chambers of "usa today" with us. francesca, one of the things you think about especially if it looks like donald trump does not make the fox debate is who becomes the piñata that, the target? you could argue that, you know, the florida governor, desantis does, but that's not such a gimme, if it could be ramaswamy. where do you see it going? >> well, it depends on who on the debate stage you're talking about regardless of whether donald trump is there, chris christie is likely to go after donald trump as he has throughout much of the race are. if you're some of the other candidates on stage such as mr. desantis, then you want to go after ramaswamy to who has tried to position himself as an alternative to donald trump in lieu of the governor of florida. so i think it depends. the other thing though, neil, is that for anyone who's in the spotlight in this debate, it has a downside too for you. your record that your views will be urn more scrutiny than they have in the past, and that can be hurtful as a candidate as well. neil: if we're to believe all these campaign notes, mark, that desantis plans to do a lot of attacking of ramaswamy and, you know, i wouldn't say coddling, but showing support or state things in support of donald trump, that's a bit of an upside down world. do you believe that, first off? >> no, i don't. i think that would be a major mistake. look, i think these candidates are for the first time getting an opportunity to talk to a mass audience. chris christie, i agree, is just going to attack donald trump because that's what he's doing. but the rest of the candidates have an opportunity to show why they're unique, why they're qualified, and if they spend their time attacking others, or i don't think that's going to play very well at all. they have to show themselves as a credible alternative as ramaswamy has done. he has simply done that. he's done it reasonably effectively, but lots of republican candidates get these mini booms. they all did last time. what will be lasting, i don't know, but an attack ramaswamy strategy for desantis, wow, that would be fatal. neil: you know, it's interesting, guys too, and francesca, i wantment to get your thoughts on the importance of iowa. we have alexis mcadams talking about how the candidates are trying to make traction there, but it isn't what it used to be. it certainly is not the same state that launched jimmy carter 's political career and conquered the white house and even for ted cruz it didn't materialize into much after that surge. so i'm wondering if new hampshire gets to be the focus here. how do you see it? >> we're winning -- well, winning iowa would still give you momentum. winning the first contest can still give candidates momentum. of course, we were talking about christy before, he has put his emphasis and focus on winning that second con test in new hampshire. neil: right. >> you would also expect that some of the other candidates such as nikki haley, you know, tim scott can, they really want to win their home state of south carolina, they think that they can derive momentum from that. more importantly and first is the debate. and as a mark was saying a few moments ago, it's a real opportunity for candidates to be able to present a positive vision for themselves but also to build up the donors that they need to get on the debate stage for the second debate. neil: you know what's interesting as well, mark, is how you thread the needle with trump voters because you don't want to tick them off. it seems to me vivek ramaswamy has found maybe the switzerland middle ground on this by saying, you know, supportive things of the former president and his presidency, maybe questioning his behavior around january 6th but still saying he would pardon him if he became president. so how is that working for him? because you haven't heard donald trump say anything nasty about him. that could change now that he's surging in the polls, but what do you make of all that? >> yeah. i think i can guarantee that if ramaswamy continues to surge, he'll get some blowback. from from candidate trump. look, again, i think that the days are saying, look, elect me because i'm competent, you know? i'm going to present the party, i'm going to win, i've got some -- i've got a program to deal with inflation, you know? have a good moment, but i think we've gotten so, you know, so believing that debates are all about that singer that we up against -- zinger, we forget this is the one opportunity, i think, without trump for these folks to show that they're adults, that they can have a real substantive debate and maybe show that the party would be better off without trump just by showing that they can act like real candidates who are qualified for president. how about that? neil: there's a concept. francesca, you probably heard these ten commandments of vivek ramaswamy's are out and sometimes they stop people in their tracks and say, all right, ask he kind of touches on a couple of key points, that god is real, there are two genders, human flourishing requires fossil fuels, reverse or racism is racism. i could go on with the other six commandments, but he's sort of articulating where he stands, what he's about and what he thinks republicans should be about. what do you think of that? >> but i don't know how much from any of these candidates we'll hear in depth debate on these things, you know, when you have as many candidates as we expect to be on the debate stage and the amount of time they each have to respond to questions, the debate does benefit candidates who are good at putting their answer as in a minute and a half or in a 30-second rebuttal. and there will be more debates where they will get into the individual views on some of the domestic policy issues and foreign policy issues as well. but it certainly also a doesn't benefit candidates who are quite long winded. [laughter] neil: all right. thank you for that. no long windedness here. francesca, final word. mark, always good seeing you. vivek will be here, ramaswamy, and how he deals with now being the center of all this attention. meanwhile, in the background, of course, donald trump. he's got a busy outlook calendar when it comes to legal issues and all the rest. but apparently one debate is not on his schedule. after this. treasure my dad was a hard worker. he used to do side jobs installing windows, charging something like a hundred bucks a window when other guys were charging four to five-hundred bucks. he just didn't wanna do that. he was proud of the price he was charging. ♪ my dad instilled in me, always put the people before the money. be proud of offering a good product at a fair price. i think he'd be extremely proud of me, yeah. ♪ we, the moms who have lost our children to social media harms. we, we, we have had enough. our politicians have failed. working for lobbyists, not us. we need your voice to pass the kids online safety act this fall. join us. join us. join us. join us. (♪) let's lead the way. (♪) neil: if he is convicted of a crime, the constitution still says he can serve as president of the united states. there are a lot of even republicans polled on this issue, half of whom feel that that would be, that would be a game-changer. a conviction would be a reason that he not be president. what do you think? >> i think it's somewhat early -- neil: i understand. >> some of these candidates aren't as well known as a donald trump, can and i think when push comes to shove, it'll be clear that there are other candidates who can window icively. but, you know -- can win decisively. but i think the chances are that he will be convicted on some counts -- neil: can you see him doing jail time? >> but i don't think that translates into jail time. neil: why? >> because i think, you know, if i was attorney general and we were prosecuting, for example, on the documents case which is a righteous case a, i wouldn't want to see a former president in jail. i think a very substantial penalty would serve the public interest, but putting him in jail has too many collateral bad inpacts on the country, so i think that's probably where it would end up. neil: it's hard to say but the former attorney general says no matter what happens in all these cases and the 91 charges against the former president across the 4 criminal cases, he'll do no jail time regardless. alexandria hoff has been following that and the trump campaign's push to delay some of these trials including one they want to push back until, i think, 2026? >> reporter: yeah, that's right. special counsel jack smith had requested a january 2024 trial date, less than two weeks before the iowa caucuses. but trump's legal team have proposed pushing that back by 27 months, the defense arguing it's going to take them until april of 2026 to adequately defend the former president who's charged with alleged efforts to overturn his election loss. they say the scope of the case is too large to prepare quickly writing in a 16-page filing, quote, no major party presidential candidate has ever been charged while in the middle of a campaign and certainly not by a justice department serving his opponent and the public interest ryes -- lies in justice and fair trial, not a rush to judgment. and, neil, plenty of reporters' schedules were rearranged when the former president heeded the advice of his lawyers and canceled a press conference he had scheduled for monday in bedminster, new jersey, where he said he was going to present evidence that would exonerate him in the georgia election interference case writing in part on truth social, my lawyers would prefer putting this i believe irrefutable and overwhelming evidence of election fraud and irregularities in formal legal filings. therefore, the news conference is no longer necessary. in the responding to trump's initial press conference announcement, georgia's republican governor brian with kemp wrote, the 2020 in georgia was not stolen. for nearly three years now, anyone with evidence of fraud has failed to come forward under oath and provide anything in a court of law. trump and governor kemp, they have been sparring since trump's 2020 loss, the former president largely blaming kemp for coming up short in the state. neil? neil: al sand delay yahoo! of. -- alexandria hoff, thank you for that. john yoo weighing in on this, first off, the likelihood of being able to delay all four trials. how likely is that? when i spoke to bill barr, he said maybe a couple, but certainly the january 6th one and can should be a jude candidated before the election. what do you think? >> i think general barr's right. given the number of cases that have been brought against president trump, one of them is going to be able to start you'd think at least by next her. unfortunately, that would be -- next summer. unfortunately, that would be right smack dab in the middle of the end of the primaries and the beginning of the timing for the presidential d i'm sorry, the nominating conventions. i actually, if i were to guess, i would think the one about the classified documents at mar-a-lago would be the one that could go first and might go fastest because it's it's not the sprawling indictment, for example, like the one you saw in georgia about january 6th that has 12, 13, 14 can defendants and runs from election day all the way to a year after the election. i don't see how something with that many people, that many charges could possibly go to trial and really get started in a fair way before next summer. the classified information trial is very discreet, it's really an obstruction of justice charge. it really just depends on a few witnesses, a few -- a a little bit of testimony on some documents, maybe that's the one that can be accelerated to go first. neil: you know, john, donald trump and his lawyers do have a point, do they not, with this sudden rush to get to trial. i mean, in atlanta where this thing has been percolating for the better part of two and a half years and now all of a sudden it's a rush, rush, rush, rush to get to trial. that does seem weird. what do you think? >> we shouldn't forget how unprecedented this is. this is the first time a former e president has ever been charged by anybody, by state or federal prosecutors. we used to think that presidents should just be allowed to ride off in the sunset like the end of some western movie, even if they might have done bad things. we also thought it was best for the country to focus on the future and to stop relitigating and refighting the battles of the past. but as in many ways, trump has broken rules here as well. now, one thing about the filing that the trump lawyers have made, i'm not sure about some -- i can see we need more time to prepare, we need more time to get witnesses, more time to see documents. i think that's a legitimate reason to schedule a trial for later, but to say i'm busy with other stuff, trump's got other things to do, i don't find that a compel pelling argument to a judge and a federal justice system that wants to get on with business. it's the right of the defendant to have a speedy trial, but also the public wants to make sure defendants don't sit around waiting months or even years for a fair trial. neil: how is that decided? in other words, does the judge weigh all of this and, you know, depending on the judge judge is does he or she finally say, no, no, this is when we're doing it, end of story? how is that ultimately decided? >> there are no dumb questions in the cavuto school of law classroom -- neil: trust me, there are. [laughter] >> the that's a very important question. this is an important question. it's really up to the judge. the district judge, the trial judge is the king or queen of her courtroom or his courtroom. and they decide things like scheduling. it's really up to -- you could always appeal, but if you appeal things like when we're going to have the trial and things like that, you're just going to make the trial judge who's going to make all kinds of decisions of what witnesses and evidence you get to put into the record before the jury really unhappy with you, and so usually the trial judge sets the date, usually there's not a lot of fighting after he or she makes that final decision can. neil: you know, john, one of the things that bill barr ended our interview, i asked about the likelihood of with some 91 criminal charges, the likelihood of the former president skating on all of them whatever your views of him or the charges, that the mathematically is a high bar and that he might be and could be cob steve by convicted on a variety -- conceivably convicted on a variety of those charges. that a begs the question how you punish him. he said, neil, you don't send him to jail. the cd of a former president -- the idea of a former president in jail, it's unfathomable. you might put him under house arrest or detention, but that would be it no matter the number of charges. i want to make sure here -- i'm kind of paraphrasing the attorney general, but what do you make of that? no matter what, donald trump is not going to jail? >> i'd like to amend general barr's point in that what he's providing you is the perspective of the attorney general of the united states who's in charge of only two of the four cases so far. he's in charge of the classified information and the other special counsel trial involving january 6th. there i think the attorney general's perspective could be a good one. how much is the public interest served by seeing a former president of president trump's age sitting in prison, maybe dying in prison? i know there are people who really hate president trump, would like to see that, but that's -- i agree, it's hard to see how the public interest is served. that's not the case with the georgia case. some of the charges that have been brought in the state of georgia require a 5-year minimum sentence on conviction. there's not really leeway to say, ah, we're just going to let you out with a fine. this is actually why i think having state d.a.s prosecute former presidents or candidates for office is trouble many, because the -- troublesome, because the agenda of that state elected official from a red state or a blue state might interfere with the national interests. they might just be representing, for example, what fulton county would like to see happen to donald trump even though that might hurt the way we should think about treating presidents in the past and in the future. neil: got it. john yoo, great catching up with you. thank you very much. >> thanks, neil. neil: all right. now the aforementionedded vivek ramaswamy. he has surged to the point of being the it candidate. i don't know the that's a blessing or a curse because, vivek, it's going to mean you could be a target in next week's debate. we've already learned that the desantis forces plan to make you one. now, they disavow this so-called campaign secret that came out, but what do you make of that? >> look, i think that we're doing well, neil, because i am speaking the truth in an unapologetic way. that has been the strategy of this campaign since day one. i began at 0.0% in the polls in march, i'm now in second place in many of the polls coming out over the weekend, and i think we're going to continue with that same strategy where a lot of the republican party for a long time has been focused on what are we running from. i'm asking the question of what are we running to. to our vision of what it actually means to be an american, leading with specificity on what will actually get done while in office. i think people are hungry for that a kind of vision in our party. i think it does take an outsider to deliver. i'm also the youngest person ever to run in our party. i think that helps me bring a fresh perspective that others have not, and that's exactly what i'm going to be doing on that debate stage. neil: you have brilliantly kind of threaded the needle with, you know, supporting donald trump and said that he was a very good president, i believe the best of this last century, but when it comes to january 6th and his personal ageses, you didn't -- actions, you didn't flip over them. bottom line, his supporters think a great deal of you, but that could change, and your rise in the polls could change the former president's view of you. are you worried about that? >> see, the way i look at it, neil, is i'm not running against anybody in this race. it's part of why you don't hear me criticize many of my competitors period, donald trump included. i think we have to, as a party, stop talking less about the who, more about the what and the why. what do we stand for and why to do we stand for it. even with respect to are criticizing biden or the left, i depart from the republican party. i don't think that's the winning strategy. aim board of -- i am bored of talking about joe biden. that's why the 2022 so-called red wave never came. we have to offer an agenda and an affirmative vision of our own. the way i explain it to the people is that biden isn't really the president in charge, it's the managerial class and the administrative state, the deep state, and we have to explain to the american people how that impedes the economy, how that reduces accountability in government, how that actually drains the life blood out of a three-branch constitutional republic. if we do that, we win this election in a landslide. if we resort back to talking points from the republican party to sound like a bunch of partisan hacks, i think we're going to have the same disappointing result in 2024 that we did in 2022. that does take an outsider to deliver, and that's why i'm in this race. neil: you are getting a lot more scrutiny now and a lott more press and attention, but it also invites a lot more scrutiny of your business past. bloomberg is reporting about these two former employees who filed lawsuits against your firm when you were running it with your can cofounder anson -- i'm sorry, annson frericks. i hope i pronounced that correctly. they say, bomb line, the business -- bottom line, the business practices didn't match up with sort of the relate aric. -- rhetoric. they also say the company struggled to meet some lofty goals for an anti-esg strategy. this is all new to a lot of people, but i did want to give you a chance to sunday to that. >> oh, it's totally laughable, neil, and it's funny how you see the attacks leading up as my raise in the polls continues. i founded strive. strive crossed a billion dollars in assets under management about a year after i founded, after we launched that first fund when i was leading the firm. that's jpmorgan taking twice that time to get to the same milestone. the fact of the matter is when you fire underperforming employees, they strike back with their own narratives. you know what in that's exactly what's going to happen in the federal government. i'm bringing a 75% heed count reduction plan to the u.s. federal government. and the fact of the matter is a lot of underperformers, they're not going to be happy with that. that's been the story of how i've gotten ahead in my career, reward overperformers -- neil: so you're dismissing what they're saying -- >> oh, it's laughable, yeah. neil: -- not a lot of thought was given to running your investment firm as an investment firm, that it was a pr mechanism for the presidential campaign. what do you say to that? >> i mean, it's another total lie from, you know, underperforming employees, they're going to try to, you know, hold a situation hostage when a guy's profile is rising, but it is total trash. it's exactly what we're going to see more of. i expect we're going to see much of this coming out over the course of the presidential campaign. i'm ready for that. if you can't handle the heat, you stay out of the kitchen. the truth of of the matter is i'm ready for that in the next eight years, firing underperforming employees. many of them are not going to be happy about it sitting in cush jobs in the federal government. call out the under. performers, that's why i've had such great success, frankly, in leading a business that delivered five fda-approved medicines, to build a multimillion biotech company from scratch, launching strive to compete against blackrock, jpmorgan took two years to get to the same place, really changing behaviors in corporate america's boardrooms, getting them to focus less on toxic politics do if more on making profits for share 408ers. those are -- shareholders. those are the kinds of accomplishments i've delivered. i'm 38 years 08, i'm a entrepreneur. the next bure or -- bureaucracy i'm taking on is in the government, that's the way i roll. neil: you know, vivek, you are certainly resonating in the polls, there's no doubt about that. you're either number two or the third most popular candidates among republicans. but one thing that's very clear in a lot of these polls is europe -- everyone's favorite number one choice or number two. in other words, if you don't make it to be the presidential nominee, more republicans want you to be the vice presidential nominee than anyone else. would you entertain that? >> well, the fact, the fact is, neil, many of these people didn't know who i was six months ago, and we're still sitting before the first debate. donald trump and i, i think, share something in common in that neither of us does well in a number two position. i'm built to actually lead the organizations that i've built, and i think when i'm looking at the federal government, my greatest contribution, neil and one of my goals being to reunite this country, i'm going to be in the best position to get that done if i'm doing it from the top job. that's where my focus is. i've been very clear i'm not interested in a different position in the government. frankly, i'd drive change through the private sector sooner than becoming number two or three in the federal government. neil: really? that's a heartbeat away from the if presidency. are you saying you would turn it down if offered you? >> i am. and the reason why, neil, is that if this were about my quest for personal power, sure, that makes sense. but that's not what this is about. this ises about restriving our missing national -- reviving our missing national identity, reaching the next generation of americans who are badly disaffected from politics, a crisis of national pride. it is my job to make sure that my two sons and their generation are once again proud to be citizens of this nation. neil, i think we're already doing that in this campaign, bringing young people along in drove. i'm going to be best positioned to do that as the next president. and for me, november 2024, t not even the destination. that is the start line. the real destination is january 203 # 3. my older son won't even be in high school then. what do i want to tell the people of this country that we accomplished? above all, the next generation is once again proud to be american, reviving the dream of the american revolution, and i'm only going to be able to do that if i'm the next president leading a revolution like reagan did in '80, that's what i'm tam. neil: what's interesting is you do things differently than other candidates and, clearly, you go anywhere, you'll talk to anyone or you don't pick and choose where you go or the questions that are asked. it's very admirable. the latest that's drawn a great deal of attention is your so-called ten commandments. i don't know if you call them that outright, but you do say among them god is real, there are two genders, you talk about reverse racism being racism. that an open border is no border, that parents, you know, determining the education of their children is probably a good idea, sounded idea. but more and more people are quoting this. and i go on some of the social media, i'm not at all adept at social media, by the way, but i hear a lot of the trending and the attention it's getting. i likenedded it to a modern day thomas paine's common sense. was your idea to stop people in their tracks and say this sums up who i am, who republicans should be? why did you do those commandments? >> one step further than that. not just who republicans should be, but who americans should be. we are a nation founded on the truth, and the reason we've been so explicit about it, neil, is i think there is a gap between what people willing to say in private and what people willing to say in public. in fact, that gap is an indictment of our civic health as a country right now. so what i'm doing in this campaign is i'm speaking that truth, speaking that truth in the open, on behalf of most americans who share those same basic values in common. that idea that the nuclear family is the greatest form of governance moan to man kind, that capitalism is the best system known to man to lift people up from poverty. that the u.s. constitution is the strongest guarantor of freedom in human history. these things are true, neil. we should not apologize for the truth. my view is we stand up for the truth. that's what won us the person revolution. i think that is what will win us the revolution of 2024, and i think that is the true choice we face in this primary. do you want incremental reform? if you do, i'm not your guy. do you want reform or do you want revolution? i stand on the side of the american revolution reviving those 1776 ideals that got us 250 years into this american experiment. and if you ask me, we're not a nation in decline. i think we're really just a little young, actually. going true our own version of adolescence and identity crisis, figuring out who we're going to be when we grow up. and my job as our next president is to lead us there, to lead us to our adulted hood. and the way we're going to get there is -- adult high schooled. and, yes, by speaking the truth, doing it without apologizing for it because that is who we are as americans, and that's what this campaign is all about including a thomas paine common sense-style approach. we have to deliberate leaflets in iowa and new hampshire that look like paine's pamphlets, so you were correct on that. neil: real quickly, comments that you're an isolationist, that that some people think you would let china invade taiwan, let vladimir putin, make concessions to him to win in ukraine. real quickly, is that true? >> i'm not an isolationist. i'm a george washington, america first conservative. i actually think we need to be stronger at home. nuclear defense, cyber defense, super emp defenses. nobody else is talking about this. i think we need to reorient our defense spending to actually defend the homeland which absolutely is vulnerable. and i am moving our foreign policy including places like taiwan from strategic ambiguity to strategic clarity. that will actually allow us to project greater strength because people can trust us. and the only way, you mark my words, that i will be a wartime president is if joe biden leads us into one. i will deter war by actually being strong at home. neil: we'll watch closely, vivek. thank you for taking the time. vivek ramaswamy. see you at at the big debate next week. we're monitoring developments with hurricane hilary9 and the threat it poses now for california. 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