here. she is not an expert in? and refused to answer the questions. >> reporter: yeah, trace, beginning very early this morning, our team has been here outside of the courthouse alongside numerous other members of the media and everyone was basically anticipating or awaiting for a potential indictment against the former president today and much earlier today all of a sudden there was this post or information circulating that he had been indicted and that reuters had published basically a screenshot of the indictment. we are talking about earlier today. around lunchtime hour it. not -- that generated a lot of buzz. all of a sudden, the fulton county? office said, those are not correct documents. they are not legitimate. they are fictitious. there is no indictment. now fast forward six to 12 hours, here we are midnight and the indictment finally came down tonight. it is remarkably similar if not identical to the document that surfaced earlier today on the county website that was supposed to be fictitious. so it really generated a lot of questions, how did i get up there? such a critical sensitive document, how was that posted on a government website? so tonight, when the district attorney was asked about it, she said she had no comment. she is not an expert in clerical or administrative duties. but as our anchor bret baier pointed out, she is probably very intimately aware of how the fulton county website works. so i'm sure there's going to be much more interest and may be more questions that need to be answered regarding how that fictitious indictment landed on the fulton county website much earlier today. tonight, the fulton county district attorney, the fani willis' -- says 19 people were charged including 41 felony counts. of course, against the former president, donald trump, and many of his associates, normal -- notable including rudy giuliani and mark meadows. every single person who was charged with one count with the rico act here in georgia, that is the racketeering charge and the district attorney said tonight that there is a minimum sentence attached to those charges. it is not something that you can get probation for. among the name also, fun fact here, kanye west, former publicist. among those indicted tonight. the four county d.a. called this a criminal enterprise that had the legal goal of allowing donald trump to see the office on january 20, 2021. the fulton county district attorney basically saying that these 19 people created this criminal enterprise that not only have been here in georgia but elsewhere outside of this state. the d.a. wants a trial within six months. she said she does not want to be the first or the last to charge or to take donald trump to her trial regarding his other endeavors. but she wants her trial to happen in the next six months and she is asking for all 19 people listed in the indictment tonight to turn themselves in by next friday. trace? >> trace: matt finn life for us outside the courthouse. thank you so much. to work to bring in jason chaffetz because of the political aspect of this and you have been watching this all along and i know you have got to be fascinated especially the apartment that we were talk about with matt where you had the d.a. come out and she literally has asked the question about this document that came out earlier that was fictitious and they did not say the website had been hacked. they just send the document was fictitious. it was produced prior to the grand jury voting and then we have the soundbite. let's play it. let's listen to this. i will get your take. >> district attorney willis: i can't tell you anything of what you referred to. i can tell you we had a grand jury here in fulton county. they deliberated until almost 8:00 if not right after the clock and an indictment was returned and you have an indictment. i am not an expert on clerks duties or even administrative duties. i would not know how to record that system. >> trace: close to are corresponded. you know it is going to come up again and again. it is not like you can just sneak away from this thing, oops, you said it was a phony document and it turns out to look an awful like those awful lot like the real thing. >> reporter: what are they doing to prosecute? is that not a crime to go out and put a fictitious document out on a public website and to do it and it ends up being the same document or at least very similar to that, was prior to the grand jury actually voting. boy, fani willis is off to a good start. remember a few days ago, she posted new information, had a fundraising e-mail going out to in a, trying to raise money because she is involved and engaged in election. she has more than 2 1/2 years to pursue this. just happens to come that it tease up under her time went so that she can prosecute somebody, you know, and bring it, you know, right in the middle of the primary season. she is going after kanye west's pozzy? seriously? that is where the people that is indicted along with donald trump? are you kidding me? where is -- why are they not pursuing any of the democrats that challenged an election? stacey abrams. she never admitted that she wrote after the whole system said it was vague. that camp had made this thing. i did not hear anyone barking at stacey abrams. she still did not admit that she did not win the election. >> trace: aand you say that and the d.a. was actually saying that according to -- this is not -- but she said fairly close here that the president, the former president did not abide by georgia's process for disputing elections. he broke the law and one wonders if stacey abrams actually abided by saying this whole thing was legitimate that stacey abrams abide by the georgia process for disputing elections, jason. >> do you give up your first amendment right? and remember what is going on in real time, things are slowing. there are a lot of people that had serious questions, why can't you ask the question? why can't you do that? why can't you get a legal team to get you an opinion? that is what she is going to prosecute here? the whole thing with the four different indictments and the timing against donald trump, it just seems farcical. and i just still can't get over the idea that kanye west publicist is on that list. i can get by that. >> trace: i'm sure he can't either. i want to leslie and i will let you go. it is you go. it is good that you stay with -- stay up with us. we have seen this again and i bought this up with alvin bragg and we saw some of the other t.a.s give their case before the media, after the indictment is unsealed. and it just seems to me like it tends to fall flat. you expect the d.a. to go up there and not only give you the charges, including the treasures. to give you the context and their perspective and the reason why you should be so infuriated at the behavior and instead, all you tend to get is kind of a running list of the indictment itself and no reason, no, you know, intestinal fortitude reason why we should feel that the justice department, the justice system is above board. >> and you are exactly right, trace, because that is what gives you the feeling, the impression, if they had a smoking gun on donald trump, don't you think they would lead with that? wouldn't they create a case and go out there and say, see this document? see this recording? see this? we can't ignore this, folks. this is what we are prosecuting. but they don't have it. they would lead with it. instead, they tried to scare people. 41 indictments and all this hoopla about how many there are. there's no content there. we saw this before. this has been the story since donald trump decided on that escalator. they just keep throwing stuff at him but when you go in and you look and you try to see it, you don't see anything. that is the problem. >> trace: yeah. jason chaffetz, stand by if you would or let me know if you want to take a break. i want to -- you mentioned the numbers, jason. here they are. 19 individuals charged in the indictment. it is 97 pages long, and i know it because i have it right in front of me here at the prosecutor, of course, spoke to the media. it was very brief. i want to bring in kevin corke because this is the fourth of four indictments former coast for the former president and kevin corke is live in dc to give us some contacts and a rundown of the other three indictments. kevin, good evening. >> kevin: good evening, trace. the entire country watches this unfold in real time. this latest prosecution of the former president is already extending the legal jeopardy for the gop front-runner supporters. this is to say nothing of the mounting legal bills hitting trump coffers. this is something that kind of keeps on going. to become the fourth venue to recharge the 45th president and a case that could well impact the 2020 election. now you mentioned this briefly in new york, he is also facing 34 felony counts of allegedly violating new york law on corporate recordkeeping. stormy daniels a situation. in florida, 37 felony counts were initially taking classified and highly sensitive national security documents with him when he left the white house as the then former president. in dc, he has also been charged with at least four crimes. that investigation, by the way, including two in which prosecutors alleged that he somehow had relation to this disruption of congress' certification of the electoral vote on january the sixth. in georgia, a grand jury returned at least 10 indictments today. a voluminous document, more than 96, 97 pages, i almost said 98. this is all accusing the former president and his allies of attempting to overturn the 2020 election. however, tonight, the trump campaign remains defiant, trace, writing in a statement posted on his website, truth social, the legal double standard set against president donald trump must end. these activities by democratic leaders constitute a grave threat to american democracy and are a direct attempt to defraud the american people the parental choice to cast their vote for president. and as he has in the three previous circumstances, the former president is expected to plead not guilty to all the charges in the state of georgia. i think this is going to play out in a very interesting way, trace. you heard the legal experts say this could certainly be broken up, again, based on the -- in my experience, i would say that this could easily extend beyond simply in the appeals process, beyond the election. but i think that is the idea here. it seems that fani willis wants to get this wrap up somehow. or certainly in the hands of the court before then. we will see if the will happen spectrum one and just for the record, you and i apparently have the same clerical team because mine is also 98 pages. the last page only has a couple witness names on them. 97-point something something. but we are close. kevin corke back to you. as kevin was talking about, i want to been in jeff paul. he has new information because everyone is trying to saturnino. everyone is trying to get their case in and the appeals process and you have fani willis saying, i'm going to have all 19 of these people tried. the judge sets the trial they'd make. she wants to push for less than six months and they are trying to get this on the agenda. >> reporter: the original date was set for may 2024 and i think as of now, that could get delayed. they are bringing on a new codefendant. it just -- just to remind our viewers in florida, they are accusing the property manager of mar-a-lago of helping trump tried to delete some of the surveillance footage that was subpoenaed and then you have trump's embodiment, according to investigators at the guidance of trump was moving boxes and so this is one case in florida. it is very complicated. serious charges there. and we will see if it gets pushed back because i was a trump's defense team definitely has grounds to delay the trial with new codefendants and new charges and that is just one of these environments. we have got three others that tthey have got to deal with. >> trace: and you got all these legal chess pieces. you have moving in new jersey and moving in georgia and the nation's capitol. is one of those things where if you are trying to run for the presidency, you have to be able to carve out some time. is great to be this theory where you theory where you gotta do with this person carve out some time so that there is not election interference. >> reporter: right. and i think one of the other things that trip and his legal team are going to have to worry about moving forward or the other people named in these indictments and we spoke with kendall coffman who is a former u.s. attorney in the southern district of florida and he basically said the more people that get added on to these indictments the more trouble it could spell for not only to legal process but being -- also for trump himself. and with this indictment, so many people named, who knows how people are going to play this off? >> trace: yeah, nobody can keep up. you hear the people in florida, that was a first one. we are trying to figure this out. you see if you can get them -- jeff paul, thank you. i want to bring in jackie ibanez. she has a political reaction to what happened in georgia. we have heard some angry politicians. jackie, what are learning? >> reporter: republicans and supporters of the president accusing democrats and the biden administration of what they consider to be a weaponization of the justice department. texas senator ted cruz not holding back tonight. listen. >> this is disgraceful. our country is over 200 years old. we never once indicted a former president or a candidate and a leading candidate for president. >> reporter: they are also raising questions as of the timing of the indictment. suggestion each time there is bad news' including for president reagan and his son hunter, the former president faces an indictment. meanwhile. in the path's former attorney hillary clinton says she does not take any satisfaction in the indictments but that it is evidence of equal justice under the law. regarding the fictitious document released before the indictment was handed down, the -- tweeted this advice for the former president. since the four persecutions are using novel and untested legal theories, it is fair game for him to do the same in defense immediately following a motion to dismiss for a constitutional due process violation or publication an attorney before the grand jury had actually signed one. here is hillary clinton. listen to the is. >> this is a terrible moment for our country, to have a former president accused of these terribly important crimes. the only satisfaction may be that the system is working. >> reporter: and senate majority looter chuck schumer and house minority leader hakeem jeffries weighing in on the breaking news is saying the indictment of donald trump just like the -- portrays a repeated pattern of criminal activity by the former president. that said, the former president is not appear to be taking any political hits. at least among republicans where he continues to hold a widely over his challengers. >> trace: jackie ibanez, thank you. let's bring in kaylee mcghee white. i do know, but when hillary clinton comes out, calling them corrupt, just seems like it is very rich. taking the hammers, to the servers and flitting all the e-mails and she is coming out and calling you names. i think maybe that is not the best guess for -- guest for msnbc. >> i disagree. who better than the expert on election the nihilism and hillary clinton? you have a long list of democrats who have been -- they could be charged with the exact same crimes that trump is being charged with. you have stacey abrams in georgia and representatives, who is a georgia democrat who was arrested in 2018 for obstructing the state capital proceedings when they were voting on the election results. and guess what. fulton county prosecutors chose not to pursue those charges against her. this is what we are talking about when we mean that there's a double standard and there's a two-tiered system of justice. one side is being very clearly treated differently and the other. and the american people are working up to taxact. i think the problem is that it does not matter to the delegates or the prosecutors at this park whether any of these charges hold up in court. the timing is the public. if you look at the next year of the schedule that trump has to go on in court and then on the campaign trail, it is absurd. department is to literally prevent him from campaigning. before super tuesday next year, he will have to appear in court for either a court appearance, an arraignment, or a hearing eight times before super tue tuesday. that is the point. it does not matter whether any of these charges actually hold up in court. the point is to take -- taint his record so much that independents and suburban women reject him. >> trace: i hear a lot of legal experts and average people saying, listen, it is hold the totality of the pattern here. it is not just the trump indictments. it is not just russian collusion. it is the totality. it is the fact that you have the doj going after parents. you have the fbi going after catholics in another year. have censorship where they are censoring covid information and censoring through covid information. they are going after parents and censoring regular people and when you go after the former president four times, people tend to lose a little bit of faith in the systems that we have bought into for so long. >> and considering the charges against trump. an indictment has dropped against trump the day after a revelation about hunter biden -- against hunter biden dropped. i don't think that anyone thinks it is a coincidence. i think about the timing of the case in this instance where the fulton county district attorney has said that she wants to have this trial within the next six months. you compare that to the hunter biden administration. you have the justice department flesh out this investigation into hunter biden. why has it taken so long to investigate the president's embattled son? and why is the person can district attorney able to expedite this? these things are not a coincidence. and the american people need to start paying attention and wake up to that back. >> trace: it is interesting because you talked about trying to shoehorn some of these hunter biden allegations in there and of course, david was, just let them die. he let these charges just expire. that is the reason this case has taken so long. that is why people have such little faith and david wright is being named as a special counsel. he is the one that "everyone of these interviews off with the biden family, the by the grandkids and joe biden in the past. so there tends to be this, again, this pattern of deception at the very least and that is what frustrates people. i got about 30 seconds for you. >> yeah, absolutely. and as many people have already pointed out, the process of this indictment in particular raises many red flags. whether it is the grand jury woman going on cnn giggling about the potential indictment or the fictitious letter that they just expertly released ahead of time. these are all going to be really strong points for trump's defense team to make and we will see how it ends up going. >> trace: yeah, kaylee mcghee white, it is great to have you on it, as always. thank you. i want to check in with matt finn. they are wrapping things up at the colleton county georgia courthouse. -- fulton county courthouse in georgia. what is the going the way thought? >> reporter: i talk to our reporter, inside of the press conference just moments ago. he was the one who asked the question about the fictitious documents that were posted to the fulton county website today. and the district attorney here, fani was, said that she wants her child to happen in the next six months. of course, this is the former president's fourth indictment. there's a lot of competing schedules here. i want to toss to a quick soundbite in which the district attorney says that she wants this to go down within six months. >> district attorney willis: i don't have any desire to be first or last. i want to trai hume and be respectful for our sovereign states. we want to move this case along and so we will be asking for proposed order that occurs, a trial they make within the next six months. >> reporter: you have it. and like we were saying today, there was a lot of members of the media outside the courthouse waiting for this pending indictment and one that news started to circulate, a lot of people said, here it is. tough old hickory clerk says, that was not the indictment. one interesting observation is he would take the district attorney would have been prepared to explain to us what happened because you are talking about an indictment against the former president of the united states. he thought maybe she would have been prepared to address what happened but instead she did not talk about it at all and when she was asked about it, she kind of differed and said, i don't have any expert skills in administrative order or clerical work. this is her office. she is the district attorney. he would imagine that she knows very well how her website works and how ultimately indictments are posted onto the website. it may not be -- it could have been just a clerical error that that ended up on the website. we have a sensitive case like this where the former president is expected to be indictment -- indicted, you would think you would be ready to explain what happened. not only did she not want to, she just deferred when she was asked the question. >> trace: and call it fictitious. is brian yannis in the vicinity? >> reporter: that is what i said yeah, we should bring him over here. >> trace: yeah, bring him over here. >> reporter: it is happening. >> trace: i'm curious what the move was. i want to know if you asked the question, what is the response from the rest of the media. if the d.a. comes in and says, hey, i'm not an expert in clerks is what she said, i'm wondering what the response from the media is in the press conference ended very quickly thereafter, brian yannis. [away from microphone] >> reporter: i think i heard you talking about the response from the media. i think it was -- i think ultimately, this was a situation where it was the question that was on everyone's mind. i'm actually hearing myself. yeah, i think this was on everyone's mind going into the press conference because you have a situation here where you have the former president's attorneys who are attacking the integrity. you have a portion of the electorate, who are skeptical at the very least about this ongoing and now indictment against the former president. you would think she would have gone in there at least a bit more prepared to answer the question given the fact that with all those things being true. to be able to put a pin on it to say, look, this was a clerical our practice was something that we are going to be taking seriously and we are going to see is to investigate because we don't accept leaks in this office. she did not say either of those things. and instead said that she did not have any knowledge of how this works at the clerk's office, the clerk's office. so that was a bit confusing. and i'm sure they're going to have to at least my thought process here is that they are going to have to come out with another, well, another explanation for why there was that leak, if it was just a clerical error or with no. robin thank you both. to her jeff paul, the timeline because they are saying six months. i want to bring in vik bajaj. six months is what fani willis is saying and in florida, what is the time line they are setting for the year? >> reporter: i think bret baier did the mass. i think it was february, 2024. you have got the florida case that is supposed to start in ma. that is a couple months after that. iif i could quote right quick, the former u.s. attorney for the southern district of florida said to our viewers at home who are a little confused about everything that is going on, said, buckle up. you are starting to ride. this is one step. get ready for a long drawn out coverage of what might be the most remarkable ballistic criminal prosecution in the history of the united states. >> trace: and he is not underselling that. jeff paul, thank you. i want to bring in vik bajaj. you hear this, vic. and you seek, how in the world are you going to get all of these prosecutors from all these different jurisdictions and all these charges to agree on timelines that do not look on -- like election interference and make sure this guy who is the leading candidate that this person at least has due diligence and his constitutional right to run for the office of president. >> you are exactly right. if it walks like a duck and? like a duck, you know how to fill in the blank. it is a duck. this is why local elections have a dramatic impact. of course not states attorneys are appointed by the elected president but local state prosecutors are elected and -- in different counties. it is not take a rocket scientist, let's say, to come to and conclusion that those similarly situated on the medical spectrum but have a unity, a goal. that would be the push as many pieces of litigation, serious crimes and charges, all of which will either be dismissed on a legal basis or ripped through the local district records. local superior court's and certainly ripped into laboratory appeals. that means before it actually goes into a verdict at trial to the state courts. and if it is not dismissed, these are going to the jury trials. so then who goes first? and now we hear a story that she is not interested in who goes first. well, more is a grand jury returned an indictment at almost midnight over there in atlanta? well, that means they wanted to be the first to the coffers. they want to get the most impact out of it in a state prosecution, which includes, by the way, most of the allegations that were outlined in the special counsel jack smith's federal indictment. so there are no surprises here. other than who may now testify if and when the time for trial comes. upon us? >> trace: i want to read it. trump's attorney statement, jennifer lytle, saying the following, the event that have been unfolded today have been shocking and absurd. this one-sided grand jury presentation relied on witnesses who harbor their own personal and political interests, some of whom ran campaigns touting their efforts against the accused and/or profited from produce and employment opportunities as a result. we look forward to a detailed review of this indictment which is undoubtedly just as flawed and unconstitutional as this entire process has been. so they are fighting back. the fireworks are underway in a bunch of jurisdictions, but now it is on in georgia. your thoughts about this. >> thank goodness these are ripe for jury trials. and one who their finger on the pulse of state or federal trials throughout our nation knows that you can have politics that person indictments, politics that push charges. but when it comes down to the rubber meeting the road, the jury -- juries never check their common sense at the door. some people don't have much faith in jurors. i have infinite faith in jurors and every tree obstruction for every trial throughout the union has one very important role that jurors must follow. you are entitled to evaluate the testimony presented by witnesses by including a consideration of things such as bias or motive. well, actually those who are singing for their supper, meaning they have immunity, and they have every incentive to gain a conviction against the main defendants in this case, or those who have political biases. these are individuals who will be ripe for cross-examination. and i have no doubt that former president trump's legal team as well as each one of the indicted defense attorneys will bring that out front and center when the fact-finding needs to occur. >> trace: a couple questions on the 19 individuals who were charged in the indictment. you mentioned names like rudy giuliani and sidney powell. and wondering if one of these, let's say kanye west's publicist says, i need help and they want to try us together. they want to put all 19 of us together. what is our first move? can we have some time for discovery in the things that we need. >> there's no way that this is going to trial in six months. i will be absolutely floored if any judge in his union would push a defense team including 19 different defendants in addition to in addition to former president trump to go forward in six months. we have very simple state defensive -- defenses that take two to three years to properly investigate. when you have kokopelli cases, you not only have the right opportunity for assistance of counsel where these lawyers are going to are going to have to tried to sever the charges and sever the defendants meaning split the charges, one jury should not hear all the evidence against all of these individuals. and his, one particular reason why, trace. as we know when you allege a conspiracy, which a rico charge is essentially a conspiracy, and they almost 41 charges that are levied against at all or some of these defendants in this case, alleged conspiracies for theft, for influence and obstruction of justice, a jury cannot hear a defended part of his statement in furtherance of that conspiracy. so by its very nature, the way this case has been plagued by this district attorney's office will necessitate multiple jurors and multiple juries. so there's no way with these motions for the seventh, for discovery, for the immunity grants, for everything else that has been reported and found racially otherwise, and the need specifically consider usually for multiple jurors to contemplate these facts that we're going to see a jury in any way, shape, or form. >> trace: and i'm wondering if you have 19 individuals charge in this indictment, vik, i'm wondering if you think that the strategy by this district attorney is that one, two, three may be more flip against the former president and that was kind of part of your game. >> if you are the district attorney, that is absolutely a leverage and hammer you have to angle for the head of each one of these defendants. now, of course, when we talk about a federal conspiracy, it is no different than a state conspiracy as we have here. the head honcho or the h jefe's donald j. trump. everyone who will be able to provide a piece of prosecutorial violence against donald trump will get a benefit. usually, we do not have people indicted in an indictment or a complaint when they have already made a deal for immunity. many times you have charges that are allege for lesser charges if you have that immunity given. but it strikes me the deals will be on the table very soon after these individuals have made their appearance on or before august 25th for the booking procedure. and when they make their initial appearances. that is a hammer that is very hard to underestimate. and that is because the penalty for these specific rico charges as we heard the prosecutors say do not allow for probation. these are mandatory because the charges, and that is a big weight to hang -- weight to hang over someone's shoulders. >> trace: jeff paul was giving me a message here. what about locations? what do you do when you talk about, they want to change? dc is very unfriendly. or palm beach county, more friendly. and then you look at fulton county. maybe not as friendly. so there's this move and all of these technical things going forward about where these trials, the change of venues, et cetera. is that a fair assessment? >> it is absolutely fair. you hit the nail on the head as to one of the pulmonary motions that we can predict, and that is to change the new. not only because of the voter rolls they are sharing that trump is not the number one person or the party that they voted for. we see there to the governor ran on an anti-trump platform and found himself to be victorious. but let's not forget the allegations specifically. if we look at the indictment and be go through the theft and perjury and obstruction of justice charges, one may -- who is the victim. will, the victim would be any one of the voters who had their votes power strips away from them. therefore, the voters and the citizens of fulton county in georgia would be the victims. now, is it fair to have a theft from a juror determined by the juror? the answer would be no. and that is a significant constitutional question that you will see in both the district and the supreme court there eventually have to deal with. or when vik bajaj, great and out -- >> trace: vik bajaj, a great analysis as always. i would guess in florida, they like that venue. they are happy baytown there. they think they got a good shot because it is somewhat -- >> mar-a-lago is in palm beach county. st. lucie county. it is trump country. that is where he wants to be. you talk to any lawyer, any prosecutor, they are going to say the same thing. fort pierce is very favorable for him. when you look at 14 county, georgia, they could easily argue, let's move it out of the city limits that tend to be more liberal and not such a fan of trump and you get outside of the there, outside of the perimeter, as they call it, it could become more favorable for trump. so as the prosecutor or the criminal defense attorney just said right there, it is going to be one of the first things they file, change of venue. >> trace: jason chaffetz, back to you. i want to bring in the concept of a bit all of this, yeah, you ran for office. you know amid all of this, you got the former president of the united states who wants to become the next president the next president of the united states and there has to be some legal justification for you to allow him to do just that. >> yeah, but there's only one donald trump. we never have seen anything like it. nothing seems to stick to him that way. it is because of this pattern. it is this pattern of they don't enforce the law equally. name one person that that prosecutor has gone off after for election interference and all these other charges? because you got a lot of people in georgia. we talked earlier about stacey abrams leading the charge, saying that all these things are wrong. but you had people that went as collectors and challenge the allegedly -- legitimacy of the election. the routinely said that the election was stolen. that it was a legitimate. hillary clinton gave a statement today. but hillary clinton was an election than our. you know? that is the problem. you don't see the equal application of justice and people sniff that out. you don't do this equally. >> trace: and hillary clinton said again and again that donald trump was an illegitimate president. rudy giuliani just sent me this message, quoting, this is an affront to american democracy and does harm to our justice system. it is from the book of lies of anyone willing to take on the ruling regime. they lied about joe biden's foreign bribery scheme and they lied about hunter biden's laptop and criminal activity. the criminals are the people who have brought the case forward directly and indirectly and rudy giuliani is named in this indictment, jason. >> yeah, i mean, look, you have a number of people, mark meadows, the former chief of staff, the president's attorney. i think this gets into the whole issue of attorney-client privilege. can they press and try legal theories even if they are a novel? you know? that is what justice is in america. you can actually challenge things and to try to suppress your first amendment right, and to suppress your ability to challenge and ask tough questions, you know? america is different than the rest of the world. we do. we are self-critical. we do ask questions and what the process went through. i think that was a very cogent plant that was made up in the previous guest. who is the victim in all this? and so i think it will be fascinating obviously how it plays out. this idea of a "speedy trial" that just so happens to be in february when they are going to the nomination process, i can't imagine that happening. >> trace: and i'm wondering as you go to the news conference, that she read every name. she read the 19 names and you wonder why. this is focused primarily on the former president and the object of this whole indictment is basically the phone call that he made saying that he needed 11,000 and some votes and in a close election, and a close election, i mean, you think, okay, it is a rational, reasonable phone call to make. i need these many votes. we need to check these boxes and we need to go here and here and her thing is no, he did not abide by disputing the election laws and proper form. that is the whole thing. georgia's process for disputing elections, he broke the law in doing that. >> yeah. well, let's bring up stacey abrams and put them side by sides. you tell me the difference between the two and that will be a fascinating issue because she still believes she is governor, stacey abrams, the governor camp was not legitimate. from yep. jason, thank you. i appreciate your time is always. good stuff. you go through this, jeff paul and you wonder, so where do you go from here? who is the next one? you have news come out. do you have news coming from florida? do you have news come from dc that they got something that they want? you get all these prosecutors and at some point in time, you would believe there has to be some orchestration between these people to be able to at least kind of set the parameters before the judges get it? >> reporter: i was thinking the same exact thing, and it is giving me a headache. and i'm not even named in any of these indictments. but it is just the organization of it all. and even with this recent indictment in georgia, you have got 19 people and we know there is a circus any time there's one of these indictments. there are some heavy hitter names like rudy giuliani. we are going to be covering that for the next few weeks. until the 24th, right? a week from this friday. it is going to be a mad house and fulton county are we going to have a live cam and they are expected to get a trial? it is going to be highly publicized. >> and on the 23rd, there is this thing called the gop debate on fox news channel and we will and we will see if the former president decides if he wants to show up for that. let's bring and former chief counsel for the house judiciary committee julie epstein and gary gentry. julian, you first. i want your take on what you saw when the prosecutor came out and -- i was waiting as -- were waiting for the hook. you are waiting for this bombshell to come and give us the context and perspective of what you did this and i did not feel that i got that. did you feel differently? julian, can you hear me? >> i can hear you. >> trace: what about that to you? did you feel that she came out and did what she intended to do? >> no. clearly not. there's two really unanswered questions that i think are really important. one which has been talked about on this network and a lot of people are obviously talking about, even just journalists in the mainstream media, which is how did the indictment which matched the one that we have now, that came out early on the fulton county clerk's website, how did that get out early before a grand jury even voted on it? that is on is this something that people are going to have to get an answer to. and the second question that was asked by a journalist was, has she, you know, essentially coordinated with jack smith, the special counsel, at all? and she refused to comment on that. i'm going to want to see if i'm james comer, i'm certainly going to want to get my hands on those indications to see if there is any collusion here because that would be something very important going forward. those are two unanswered questions that i think house republicans and the general public will want to know. >> trace: and i want to get to julian epstein. i was asking if you felt that fani willis actually achieved her goal of making people think, oh, yeah, she has got the goods or not and secondly, as garrett just pointed out, are you surprised when she was asked about this document that just kind of showed up on the clerk of the court's website today, that she never addressed it? she just said she is not an expert, but they said the document was fictitious and that is a quote. >> yeah. i mean, i think we need to find out more about the document and i think she was -- so i don't know if that is all that important. look, i did not vote for donald trump. i was critical of the january 6 activity. that said, i'm very critical of the january 6 activity. that said, a lot of democrats are popping champagne bottles today and i'm a lot more skeptical than most of them that you will find 12 impartial jurors that are willing to convict the president, leaving aside the other codefendants. and especially for two reasons. the case really rests on two essential arguments. it is a little more complicated. it comes down to the two different arguments. when the person asks to find 11,780 votes, i think the prosecutors are going to have to prove that he wanted the secretary and local officials to falsify the actual election returns and i think that is going to be very difficult to prove to 12 independent impartial jurors. second argument that i think prosecutors are going to make in all of this sort of racketeering charges, is the whole fake elector scheme. i mean, president trump and john eastman and others believe another 12th amendment and i think it is a far-fetched theory that the vice president had discretion to decide which approach to account at which roads were not legitimate from the states. i, again, i think that is a very far-fetched constitutional idea. and sort of fake elector scheme of load of that. i don't know if it is illegal to have to deal or to act on that idea and in fact, congress last year had to update the electoral count act precisely because of the ambiguities of the 12th amendment and how it relates to the earlier one. i think you know, democrats are sort of celebrating and saying, this is a done deal. you quoted what hakeem jeffries said. this is part of -- i think it is a big mistake for them? because it makes the democratic party look very political. it reinforces the argument that this -- that trump has made that this is all over town. and that you put it together with a couple of other things that i think our little bit disturbing about the way the case was handled. fani willis had a fundraiser for one of the opponents of one of the targets of this investigation and she was upgraded by the courts in georgia for doing that. and that is troubling to me because i think that is a new era where partisan prosecutors are going to start going opponents. i think the fact that she held a fundraiser for one of the opponents of the target of the investigation is really disturbing. the other thing and i will finish on this, trace, is, and i had this criticism about jack smith as well, why is it taking 2 1/2 years to bring this indictment? why are we waiting 90 -- until the election season and into the apartment that was made by your previous guess, i think it is going to be very difficult for a quarter to say in the height of a presidential campaign season that the president is going to have to sit four weeks for each of these various different trials rather than campaigning because that would certainly affect the election and so i think this is going to be a lot more difficult than the democrats. it is going to be. and i'm skeptical that you're going to get 12 jurors to convict. >> trace: i want you to finish this up for us, garrett. my point was i asked earlier he talked about the 11,700. you do have to prove that he was looking for the secretary of state to go to go to in the first means to try to find these. that is a tough road to go and as far as advice goes, on collectors and what lectures you can't use, joe biden, the supreme court said, you can't do the student loan thing because it is unconstitutional and yeah, he is back and got advice from somebody else. you can do it this way and he is doing it another way. so there's all kinds of legal advice that streams in to a president. >> yes, i think two things, and i agree with pretty much everything julian said. i think the problematic timing of this when you have had jack smith, in or, 2 1/2 years to bring charges, fani willis had . the only thing that has change is we are close to an election year and donald trump is surging in the polls. joe biden is struggling in the polls. it matches strongly in defeating joe biden and a lot of the polls going forward. i think. i think the second thing is a lot of the problematic list rubbing the prosecutors with the charges he is bringing, up to those upgrading misdemeanor charges, jack smith in the documents case, a lot of people would argue the potential records act, every right to have those documents. we have not heard a peep from the special counsel in joe biden's case and the lasting just with that fani willis has acted, julian's right to department out a judge recommended her for holding a fundraiser for again, a political reporter. she shared a meme of lindsey graham and over the last 48 hours, she sat up in fundraising page. it looks political going into 2024 and i think presidential has a really good argument that this all again, looks political going into an election when he continues to surge in the polls as they tried to shield him because essentially what they have is that they do not want to run against donald trump. they fear they can beat him in the battle -- tyler box. >> trace: garrett, julian, gentlemen, thank you for your time. let's bring in kevin corke. he is life in dc with more on the context. various environments. that was julian. we will explain. >> one of those circumstances and i appreciate you coming back to me because it is important that the people at home understand that this latest presentation extends the legal jeopardy with the gop front-runner and what that really means ultimately is i think accurately pointed out this could keep him off the campaign trail for quite some time unless various judges along the four in the midst decided this would be enough toward mis. let me share again georgia becoming the fourth venue to charge the 44th president in a case that obviously will have implications on the 20 and 44 election. very quickly, we know in particular case, we will get to that in the second. we know in newark, for example, 20 -- 34 felony counts for allegedly violating recordkeeping law. allegedly taking classified documents. remember, he was president when he left. anyway, they said when he left, he did not have the right to her to have them. he makes the argument that, i was president. in dc, charged with crimes including a pair which prosecutors alleged related to the disruption of the certification process in januar. and now we know in georgia, the grand jury. so the bottom line here, trace, is simply this. it is going to be a long time in coming before we see this all play out. and i think the former president makes a very good argument that this should certainly be adjudicated long past the election and i think ultimately that means american people have the final choice. >> trace: if i could get -- i think the whole concept and a lot of people have said this, it may be alvin bragg when he brought his charges first, he was first and foremost. maybe his charges and the allegations were a little bit stronger. and he was not elevating misdemeanors to of felonies. maybe the rest of these cases would have gotten a little more credence and maybe there would have been a little bit more believability and all that and a lot of legal experts have said it set the tone and the turn was not exactly what the democrats should have been hoping for. thank you all. thank you for watching america's late news, "fox news @ night." we will see you back here. this is hunting country. this is our country. time to get ready for the season during the fall hunting classic at bass pro shops and cabela's. save on great gear with our low-price guarantee. and for a limited time, get inflation buster pricing on select tracker offroads - plus club members receive special financing. only at bass pro shops and cabela's. listen up, you dogs with allergic itch! today's talking lesson is just one word: apoquel. ap--o--quel. ♪ you can't teach your itchy dog to talk... ...so, talk to your vet about apoquel. apoquel is for the control of allergic itch in dogs. do not use apoquel in dogs with serious infections. apoquel may increase the chances of developing serious infections... ...and may cause existing parasitic skin infections or pre-existing cancers to worsen. new neoplasias have been observed. i'm glad we speak the same language. ask your vet for apoquel. in time. you'll notice less urges to improve emptying, and you won't be getting up at night for so many bathroom trips. urologist recommended superbad, a also available in gummies. find it at walmart. >> fox news at night has you covered. we begin with breaking information from critical events here at home to the global conflict shaping our world. we will cover it in full. don't miss trace gallagher weeknights at 11 on fox news at night. >> more than 4 million animals go chronically unpainted by their owners. get them the pets they deserve with bruises better pet hair. it's motion activated with a full range of physical affection. >> okay, this product isn't real. it's snake oil. however, this is very real. david spade hosts a new show that asks, is it real or is it snake oil? >> don't miss the premiere of snake oil. wednesday, september 27th on fox. these celebrities are about to find out. now, the calls will kill you in minutes. people want to underestimate me. i'm a lot stronger than people think. very few of you will remain at the end of this course. i can't do it. i can't. i want to get punished. you see how the special forces world's toughest test? season premiere monday, september 25th on fox. >> custody of it from here. yes, sir. >> welcome to "hannity". and we begin tonight with this fox news alert. all eyes, as you can see on fulton county and the courthouse, which at this very late hour, you're looking at live pictures from inside the fulton county, georgia, courtroom. grand jury reportedly poised to indict former president trump on charges related to the 2020 election as well as others. source telling me tonight that the case is being voting on has been voted on all throughout the late night tonight. a little unusual hours earlier today, prosecutors

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