special counsel jack smith was ever a serious lawyer, he lost that distinction tonight. he now has the sole dysfunction of being a political hack. >> the attack on this nation's capitol on january 6th, 2021 was an unprecedented assault on the seat of democracy, the department of justice has remained committed to ensuring accountability for those criminally responsible for what happened that day. this case is brought consistent with that commitment. >> laura: well by listening to this guy you would think that trump himself was smashing through the glass at the capitol that day. >> that was one of the most demogog would assume that trump was alleged to have carried out the capitol riot. >> this is the criminalization of disinformation in order to get a conviction he will have to use material in of in my view is clearly protected by the first amendment. >> laura: now this case should never survive a motion to dismiss, a motion of summary judgment, obama judge ever do the right thing, i want to remind you she worked for hunter biden's law firm at one point. boys and shiller. i have my doubts about her. trump said nothing and did nothing to trigger any criminal charge on january 6th, any. his crime was believing and saying that the election was rigged. that's what they want to send him to jail for. excuse me, how is that any different from when the democrats complained that thing were rigged in 2016? or in 2000 after bush v. gore. for that matter, why wasn't stacey abrams ever charged for calling her loss a fraud in the georgia governor's race? why at it? is why did jack smith decide to hand down this absurd diatribe today, i am sure the timing is purely coincidental. not only is biden at 40% approval a low in that new cbs poll, he is plummeting in the polls against trump, basically even across the country. and trump is dominating in the gop primary, it doesn't look like anyone is going to start him right now. after devon archer testimony, we can see with our own eyes that joe biden is wobbling under the weight of his own longstanding corruption. the bidens have been on the take for years selling influence and trump's crime is disagreeing with the outcome of an election will, complaining to the governor over the phone, speaking at a rally? we all know what this is, this is just another, a long line of political hit-jobs under the guise of federal law enforcement, we care about the system. they've charged grandmothers and military vets who merely walked into the capitol through an open door and they did that to send a message to the public at large, do not even think about standing up for someone like donald trump again. don't think about it. we could send you to jail. and now they are indicting a former president of the united states to protect biden and the entire dc establishment from scrutiny. the doj does not care about what is happening in this country right now, where real crime is running wild or chinese spies are crawling all over the place, they don't bring the same fanfare, same emotion, to human trafficking, the fentanyl explosion. one overriding goal, dragging the decreep i had joe biden across the finish line in the next election, yeah, by any means necessary. the doj is effectively the biden campaign headquarters at this point, they have nothing else. of course he is not going to run the traditional campaign or campaign like we have gotten used to, serious candidates campaigning, he can barely stay awake during a podcast. if the doj can actually get away with this, then anyone whoever speaks out against the dc establishment and does so forcefully, anyone who takes a stand on issues from china to the border to trade, they are all vulnerable. now tom massi joked yesterday it would help desantis if he got indicted. if it looked like desantis was close to beating trump he would be indicted. they can swap you with tens of millions of dollars of legal bills, sending migrants to california, he kidnapped them, i could see that being charged. look, they can harass a poor 54-year-old building manager at mar-a-lago as they did last night or the personal valet of donald trump in an effort to squeeze the whole process and squeeze out some type of cooperation from those two people, they don't have any money, they don't have any status but they can be targets like anyone else. look, as i see this, if this is allowed to stand, this is not your country anymore. because, look, as far as they are concerned, the establishment, the populous, they got to be in charge from 2017 to 2021 and that the swamp intends that will never happen again, they will not let that happen again. so, no, i do not take any of this document serious tonight because these people are not serious, they are frauds and this document is designed to do one thing and one thing only, drive trump out of the race so they can move on to their next victim. joining me now is timothy former tornado for president trump and tohlman, as an attorney, two different bars, i am disgusted tonight reading this indictment. am i wrong in feeling like this is a prosecution of a political disagreement and a political opponent going into a presidential election? >> you know, reading that indictment, the thing that jumped out of me is exactly that, they are not citing anywhere where he admits he knew what he was saying is false, it's a detailed version of what january 6th committee tried to do, well he received advice from some people and advice from other people that contradicted that, so he should have decided to follow the people that we agree with. and so, how you can then spin that into actual knowledge that these claims of fraud were false, i don't think you can get to that point, it really is all about what his state of mind is and the indictment was somewhat underwhelming on that point to me. >> laura: underwhelming, i don't know what document you read, it's beyond underwhelming. i read a lot of indictments in my day and serious cases involving white collar criminal defense, my old life. bret, what am i missing here? donald trump thought the election was rigged, we all know it, he said it forever. now that is essentially a federal crime. really? >> you know, laura, when you watch hollywood movie where they are portraying some fantastic, amazing athlete but using an actor who doesn't have the right swing or can't make the jump shot, that is what this prosecutor is and that is what this indictment is, it's cringy, drafted these and presented these to grand injuries to sit and watch him manipulate and the legal wrangling he has to go through in this document to actually criminalize thought, criminalize legal advice, criminalize a legal position and a strategy that whether they are right or wrong they had believing that this election was rigged. and so, you don't see any reference tameness rea, the criminal intent, they can't find criminal intent in donald trump or any of these four lawyers, political consultant and a civil lawyer in doj, those are the coconspirators in this case. >> laura: msnbc is trying to frame this as a moment where america is at a crossroads but for another reason than we are, watch. >> it is one of the biggest cases ever in the history of the united states, it is up there with dread scott. it is up there with brown versus board of education because it goes to who we are as a people. jack smith did something to restore confidence in the rule of law in unimaginable ways. >> laura: tim, that is the former solicitor general for the obama administration. that is the individual who argued cases before the supreme court. so, his point is, because it's historic it must be good. we'll talk about that legal analysis for a moment. >> well, first of all, neil katial is a liar. when i went on msnbc after the trump indictment at mar-a-lago, because he didn't want to address the substance of those arguments, he lied, he made up court cases saying this was rejected by the appellate courts. for him to have any credibility whatsoever when talking about donald trump, to me is completely shot. i don't think he read that indictment before he made those statements. i mean, when you look at this thing they are talking about you have to find that he had knowledge and yet jack smith his team has not even finished their investigation, they haven't interviewed some of the most key witnesses on that point. they rushed to an indictment this week, waiting until later this month when they actually finished their investigation, whether because of hunter biden or because he was afraid that fannie lewis was going to beat him to the punch. he brought a sloppy indictment before he finished an investigation. >> laura: i mean, bret, the former -- speaking of having no credibility, andrew mccabe was on the other networks, this was his analysis of the indictment. >> all conspiracy statute, so they require that the person charged entered into an agreement with another person to commit the criminal act and of course executed at least one act of furtherance of that agreement. >> a majority of house republicans voted to disenfranchise voters of pennsylvania, voters of arizona. >> if you see a legislature indicted in this case, which i'm not sure that we will, if you do it's going to be someone who went beyond just their voting. >> laura: bret, they are at the point they are not going to just put trump in jail, but i guess a member of congress who supported donald trump, do we see where this is going? that's what they want. >> that's right. that's what they want. they want to go after politicians, anybody that disagree with them. you look at section 241 that's the charge they are bringing, a civil rights claim against them and that's their conspiracy. that charge in the lang raj of the statute says a conspiracy to injure another who is trying to assert their constitution -- exercise their constitutional rights, that does not apply here, they don't care. they know they can get the indictment and pursue the case and they can get the objective that they have in place. i mean, this thing is not just weak but there are problems when, you know, i agree with what you said, laura, this is a motion to dismiss which is rare in a criminal case. >> laura: right. >> they didn't present any of the evidence that might have been ex pull pat tory to the -- exculpatory to the grand jury case. >> laura: can you speak to the motion to dismiss, to survive a motion to dismiss what does this prosecutor have to have established in that indictment? >> well he has to establish that he has evidence of every single element of that crime. >> laura: right. >> who knows what they presented to that grand jury, the big problem is as prosecutors they don't have to present everything to the grand jury, if you have 20 witnesses saying it didn't happen and only one who said it did, can you put that one witness in. and we're kind of seeing that here because they haven't interviewed the most important witnesses on that key element of knowledge, they waited until after the indictment, you know, to even have those -- those interviews scheduled. so, are they going to go back to the grand jury and say, hey, sorry, we didn't give you everything, here is a lot more information? i very much doubt it. you know, i think they are going to have issues of brady violations with the withholding. >> laura: exculpatory information. >> it's a mess. here is the other thing. a case of this magnitude is going to go long past the election. >> laura: well, but we seek a speedy trial. okay. former president of the united states and tied at the very least tied with biden right now. we gotta get a speedy trial. is he kidding me with this -- i am going to say something i am -- say on tv, that in and of itself was a laughing stock line tonight. >> especially since, laura, they waited 2.5 years to bring the case, now give me my 70 days. >> laura: exactly. tim and bret stay there, we are going to be back to you in a few moments. i want to remind everyone, we are talking about the timing tonight. so, on june 8th the fbi released documents to congress alleging that biden took the $10 million bribe from bburisma, in the mar-a-lago documents case. on july 26th, hunter biden's sweetheart plea deal blew up, when the doj tried to protect him and give him immunity from future, then the next day, jack smith added more charges against trump in the documents case in what's called a superseding indictment, are you with me on the pattern here. yesterday, biden's former business partner devon archer that joe biden was on over 20 phone calls with his son's business partners and burisma execs were on the phone call as well and helped, they wanted hunter's help in pressuring washington to fire that ukrainian prosecutor who at the time was investigating burisma, that's what we learned in that. just like clock work once again today we get the latest indictment related to january 6th. joining us now house oversight committee share james comer, congressman, are the american people at this point supposed to suspend all belief in common sense and think that this is all just one -- a series of coincidences in these charging documents and the timing of it? >> i think the american people see what's going on. whether or not this is a weaponized department of justice trying to divert away from biden corruption or taking out their chief political opponent in the upcoming election. the american people see this. this is a sad day for the rule of law and a sad day for the justice system in america. >> laura: right now we see they are charging him with two counts of conspiracy that require an intent that in the documents, as i read it, has no evidence of intent. they cannot -- at least, i mean, withholding it from him if they have that evidence. but i don't see it in this document and thiamins rea is required under the statute, period. >> as someone who is paying close attention to both of these investigations, i can tell you with confidence, there is a lot more evidence out there that would prove joe biden has committed crimes than there are of donald trump committing crimes. and that's a fact and i think laura, the american people see that. you know, to say that jack smith has overwhelming evidence that donald trump was the person that was behind the january 6th attack on the capitol, and say there is no evidence that would show joe biden had any knowledge of his family receiving millions and millions of dollars from all these foreign nationals that we now know joe biden had spoken to, had dinner with or met with or messaged i think that's preposterous i think that american people see through this. every time donald trump gets indicted from now on, he is going to see an increase in fundraising i think what jack smith is doing is having unintended consequences for what their ultimate goal is and that is to take donald trump outlaw law or wound him grievously, wound him, force him to raise money or spend money to pay for all these legal bills. congressman, the indictment sounded at one point when you are reading it like they were describing some of the acts of the biden administration that you have been documenting, saying that faith -- because we see that faith in every institution has collapsed under democrat rule including, you know, the supreme court, the military, so prosecutors claim in the indictment that for the two months after the election of 2020 trump spread lies to create an intent atmosphere of trust and miss anger and erode the faith in the election. the biden administration does nothing but spread lies and distrust in public institutions, that's what they do on a daily basis. >> i feel like someone broke into our notes of oversight committee and plagiarized them only they put them down for donald trump instead of joe biden. it's a joke, absolute joke. the damage joe biden has done to our system of government is irreparable. mayors have no confidence in the department of justice, no confidence in the fbi, losing confidence every day in the entire government and that's not a good thing, no confidence in the irs. we have to change that and all that joe biden is doing every day and merrick garland every day is to make a bad situation worse, they want to win, have self preservation, that's the ultimate goal for the deep state bureaucracy in washington d.c. and that self preservation and donald trump stands in the way of their self preservation. >> to your point, comer, whistleblower addressed president biden's involvement, watch. >> you weren't allowed to follow the normal investigative steps that would potentially shine more light on these issues. every time that we needed to ask questions about president biden's involvement in relation to the business dealings, we just weren't allowed to do that. >> laura: well congressman, again, with the two tiers of justice here, they weren't allowed to investigate into that connection but they have dozens and dozens of prosecutors and lord knows how many civil servants going after trump on multiple fronts. >> the two most damaging things for the irs investigation have been revealed in the last two weeks by the oversight committee, first of all, we learned that the fbi and the u.s. attorney did not share what the irs investigators that there was a form alleging biden took a bribe from ukraine when they knew that irs was investigating suspicious wires from ukraine going into biden bank accounts, they knew that, but didn't share the form 1023 from a credibility human informant. what we learned this week, devon archer said that hunter biden was told that he had to call washington and get help and get that prosecutor token fired. i find it hard to believe fbi didn't know about that investigation that devon archer had with hunter biden. these are two key facts that the irs investigators would need to move forward in this case. they were told to stand down, we see that every american sees that and that is a terrible terrible point in the history of our american justice system. >> laura: meanwhile it's full steam ahead, as fast as you can get these trials done, push it out. congressman, thank you. joining me now the latest how this all went down, fox news correspondent live from doj, david. >> i have been looking through this indictment, it's 45 pages. this is the final page with special council jack smith's signature. he made a lengthy statement a few mints, didn't take questions a few moments ago. there is four specific counts of former president donald trump is charged with in this indictment. i want to read them, the first is count one conspiracy to defraud the united states. count 2 is conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, count 3 is obstruction of an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding, count 4 conspiracy against rights at the at the special council an hour and a half ago, listen. >> described in the indictment, fueled by lies. lies by the defendant targeted at obstructing a bedrock function of the u.s. government, nation's process of collecting, counting and certifying the results of the presidential election. >> jack smith said his investigation is not over into other people that may eventually be charged, laura. meanwhile the former president donald trump bracing for a potential fourth indictment in georgia, a state charge, by fulton county district attorney who said their team is ready to go to give more information, this is about a phone call, the former president had with athens burger, she has not indicted yet, she expects something to happen before september. back here in washington d.c., the former president has been summoned to appear in federal court in washington on thursday, just two days, so we'll see what that turns out to be, that will be a heavy police presence on thursday when he makes his appearance, laura. >> laura: david, thank you. reaction, vivec your view of these, 45 pages, speedy trial necessary and it looks like the presidential race for biden is being run out of the doj. >> that as exactly right, laura. now i have said this before in each of the other two indictments, i will say it again, this sets an awful precedent in our country. they are going full banana republic, third world on this, that sets a dangerous precedent. on this specific indictment, laura i think there are a couple really concerning facts. first they are using an unprecedented legal theory, alvarez was a case in 2012, still good law, that holds that public officials and candidates for elected office can make false statement the, period. so, he is by definition using an unprecedented legal theory here. i think the more dangerous part of this, laura, it doesn't relate to trump, it relates to the legal system. by criminalizing the behavior of four coconspirators, lawyers, who were giving good faith legal advice to trump, the job of a lawyer is to actually provide legal advice, trump was seeking little advice and this indictment push thes the boundary further on just legal grounds. and a general rule of thumb is if you are going to try to data political opponent and president in the middle of an election, it should not be based on a flimsy legal theory which is dangerous. >> laura: non-application of the law, that is great timing to put that into play. i mentioned this briefly earlier, but this judge, amy chutkin who is handling this case back in 2022 the ap called her the toughest punisher in the january 6th cases. a former assistant public defender, nominated by obama and she is consistently taken the hardest line against the defendants of january 6th of any judge serving on washington's federal trial court. she worked for boiyce, schiller, the same law firm that represented alexander vinman, samantha powers, connection to harvey weinstein, jeffrey epstein, this is quite the connection we are drawing here, does any of this surprise you? >> it doesn't, it also goes to show why this choice of jurisdiction and venue matters deeply, jack smith knows exactly what he is doing. laura, it strikes me as the truth of the matter here, they are not going to stop until they get him going and they get him coming. i'm polling at third in the republican primary now, it would be easier for me if donald trump were eliminated from competition, that is not how any of us should want to win because that is bad for this country. that is why i think it's important for those of us competing against trump to take a strong stand against these politicized indictments. it's also why, laura, i'm happy to share this right now, earlier this evening i filed suit against the doj following up on my earlier foia request trying to get to the bottom of what biden and merit garland told jack smith, that is transparency the public really deserves here. i do not believe that this special veil of a special prosecutor is really a separate as they are making it out to be. i filed a foia request in relation to the last case which contrary to law they buffed and did not -- we have to get to the bottom of the truth of the matter here which is a politicized persecution. >> laura: i don't think the american people are going to know the truth unless there is a change in leadership. republicans are staking the future on these investigations and we are learning a lot which is fantastic. >> that's right. >> laura: law but you gotta beat them at the polls, early voting, ballot harvesting, 50 state campaign, more minority borders, multiethnic coalition, that's how you drain the swamp, the investigations, everyone knows biden is a crook now and they apparently don't care, a lot of people don't care. >> and that's why this has to be a landslide, 1980 reagan style landscape, laura. we have to bring young people along with us that will make a difference between a razor election and a moral mandate. if i'm located you have my pledge that we will roll that log over, see what crawls out, from the jeffrey epstein client list and what happens in these cases, we the public can handle the truth. it's not like you can't handle the truth, no, we can handle the truth. there is no such thing as a noble lie. >> laura: we were going to have you on to talk about why young people, young men in high school, young boys in high school are becoming perhaps more conservative. and i think not just the cancel culture and all the anti-masculinity stuff that is going on i think just basic sense of fairness that people are recoiling from. it's not fair, and it's pragmatic. speak to that as it relates to this breaking news tonight. >> i think there is part of our human nature, laura, that demands the truth, we as human beings, the things that make us different from animals is we relate to one another by actually telling the truth to each other. we live in a moment where the government repeatedly hides from us the truth about the over in of covid-19, the hunter biden laptop story, and the truth of that matter. the truth about what happened on january 6th and now the truth about what's really behind these politicized indictments. i think we the people are at a place where we just want the government to tell us the truth. tomorrow, laura, i'm going to national, speaking of young people, calling, this is prescheduled, to release that manifesto. >> laura: we've been asking for that. >> all these things are deeply related to a government that does not trust the people with the truth. >> laura: sunshine as always, the best disinfectant, thank you, great to see you tonight. former tornado for donald trump and bret to llman, another section of this indictment, donald trump did knowingly combine, conspire, con fed rate and agree with coconspirators known and unknown to defraud by using dishonesty, defraud, defeat the lawful federal government function. how did any of that happen? how was -- what do we know at least from this indictment as you read it that indicates any of that happened? >> yeah, you can put all kinds of whip cream on manure and it's still manure, right? and this description, this description of his conduct is basically saying, we're going to try to describe it in a way that fits within a statute, this is 371 statute, when you actually defraud the united states, this is what i have used that statute before to go after fraudsters who stole money from government contracts but here, they are going to use this to try to suggest that donald trump when believing and receiving legal advice that the election, there were problems with it, they didn't buy the results, he claimed like so many politicians that it was a fraud and he wanted to pursue his legal avenues of contesting it. and so they did. and that's the description that is missing in this indictment. >> laura: tim, what's interesting also that is not in this indictment is an incitement charge, they were initially talking incitement to riot, look at trump's speech, go peacefully to the capitol, we are going to make our voices heard, we hope they listen to us. urgent -- the first fraud, and they abandoned that, obviously. >> yeah, i mean i think that would have been way too easy to get dismissed right off the bat. and you know, back when i was representing him, we kind had discounted the idea of incitement charges because of the content of his speech, we were much more focused on these charges which is the conspiracy to defraud which all of which we were looking very much at the corrupt intent element of it. you know, whether he knew that these claims of fraud were false, whether he knew the election was in fact legitimate. and that's something that i just don't think that they are going to be able to overcome, nothing in this document indicates that. >> laura: bret, the best defense for trump going into a motion to dismiss the case, again knowing who this judge is and her background and we would hope she would be fair, but i don't have a lot of faith in this given her track record on the j 6 defendants. what would the we dense be, the mensrea here,. >> point out the lack of evidence that satisfies one of the elements of the crime. the most important element the mens rea one, i want to see the intent of the individual to commit the crime. we don't have anything that comes close to identifying that criminal intent. that's where i would focus, build your record, they will lose probably on the district court, maybe at the appellate. but the supreme court is one that is going to look at it i think in an impartial way, understanding how important mensrea is to criminal. >> laura: law again, if the appeals keep going before this trial even gets going, could this end up at the supreme court on a challenge to the motion to dismiss given the importance of this case to the future of the country? i mean the whole future of the country really depends in many ways, it could, on how these cases are administered, that sounds like it's hyperbolic to say so, i don't think so. >> no, it's not, because as a criminal defense attorney you sit there and you always say, you know, this is a case where maybe this will be the one where i go to the supreme court. but in this case, you sit there and say because of the issues involved, because they are bringing it with a novel untested constitutional questionable theory, because of who it is and what the gravity is, this will almost certainly go to the supreme court. it's very different from most criminal cases, you sit there from the day of the indictment, you know it's going to end up there. >> laura: bret, if you can criminalize the opinion of a political opponent before or -- i mean, this time it was after the election, but next time it might be before an election. dangerous misinformation, right you criminalize that, you could see where that would happen where an emergency is called or a nonemergency. if you can do that, they are talking about attacks on democracy, they completely eviscerated the true meaning of democracy if indeed that is what justice is in the united states tonight. >> that's right, laura. i am saying we should never want is a creative prosecutor. we should not want a prosecutor that sees it as his responsibility to try to be clever or try to come up with a conclusion and then match back and law the way he wants that conclusion to be supported. that's what we have here. the most dangerous position, the most power to a prosecutor and if now we are going to make decisions based on politics, and try to maintain our power by going after our political adversaries, you are not exaggerating the fabric of this country will be ripped and torn apart and we will -- you know, horrific rewards for it. >> laura: tim, another part of this indictment about the conspiracy, one of the conspiracy counts that the purpose of the conspiracy it was charged was to overturn the legitimate results of the presidential election by using knowingly false claims of election fraud to obstruct the government function by which those results are collected, counted and certified. no knowingly. who out there believes that trump didn't believe that this was a fraudulent outcome? i have never seen trump equivocate on that, i never heard him equivocate on his opinion. but knowingly, so everyone out there is not a lawyer, that is the intent that is required to charge someone under this statute, knowingly. how hard is that to prove? >> oh, it's very hard. and in this case, it's going to be even harder because even trump's biggest adversaries will admit that he -- he does truly believe that there is fraud in this election, he believed it then, he believes it today. not only are they going to have to prove, they have to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. but here is the other thing that is going to make this thing even more complicated, they have to actually go in and take every single allegation of fraud and disprove all of those beyond a reasonable doubt, too. so, not only do they have to prove they are false, they have to prove they knew they were false and he knew it at the time that it was false. it is an incredibly high mountain to climb, i don't see how they can possibly do it. >> laura: bret, given what we've seen about the hunter biden investigation, and the hands-off, we can't go there, we have to give them a heads up on that search. no wonder that people have declining faith in the federal government. and then this is oh, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt. they'll find intent down the road or with that next witness. it's a completely different approach based on the political allegiance of the accused. that's how i see it as a member of the dc bar. that's how i see it. >> and you should see it that way. you know, it's revealing merit garland to be petty, small in his mentality and his approach. and making decisions to be on one hand the protection for biden with absolute corruption that should offend all of our sensibilities. and then on the other to green light someone like jack smith to be as creative as possible and to pursue a sitting -- he was a president at the time when he believed that the election was fraudulent, and to go back and to charge that conduct criminally based on his -- his belief and based on his adamant position that the election was stolen from him, that's a scary day in our department of justice and the administration of the justice system. >> laura: yeah, one family got really rich being in office, one family got poorer and poorer staying on. janing me now tom cotton sitting on the senate intel committee. senator you are a lawyer, your reaction tonight, i have a chance to read through this diatribe of an indictment but your thoughts. >> laura i think your word diatribe is well put, i only had a chance to skim through it, something you would get from an msnbc producer from that channel. these are constitutionally protected activities in which former president trump engaged, political activities, free speech protected by the first amendment. you don't have to agree with him, you don't have to think he is right, i don't see how these charges can go forward without a serious constitutional challenge from the former president. i want to point out that jack smith is an ideological zea lot, charged mcdonald, he got a conviction, he versed unanimously because his legal theories were so far speech fetched. it's curious garland chose that man to pursue the former president. finally, i want to point out every time a republican has won a presidency in this century, democrats tried to stop the certification of that victory, none face criminal charges over what is obviously first amendment. >> laura: i need to show how two former prosecutors from the southern district of new york described this indictment. >> i think it's a master piece. there is an elegance to it and a grace to it because of how well it's composed and how it's just jammed with facts. >> this indictment, i mean, he is in his taylor swift speak now era, jack smith. this is a speaking indictment. >> laura: senator, this is a speaking indictment, ooo, this is like the same type of spin they tried after the devon archer testimony yesterday on a different topic though. >> yeah, and well on the topic of speaking jack smith also spoke about this indictment, he sounded like a msnbc pundit, he didn't seem like a prosecutor pursuing criminal charges on well established law, rather novel legal theories, that is not the way to pursue a former president, donald trump is also a leading candidate for the part of the opposition for the party in power now. this is taking us into third world banana republic territory. you have novel legal theories totally untested, in pursuing these political cases and then it goes out and sounds like an msnbc pundit, nancy pelosi giving a speak, it's a dangerous step that the biden administration has decided to take. >> everyone watching tonight has to remember that i know a lot of people out there question mitch mcconnell, but if it were not for mitch mcconnell merit garland would be on the supreme court, that's terrifying. he spoke out about this in the last hour, watch this. >> immediately after the januarr democracy, career men and women of the justice department engaged in what has become the largest investigation in our history. for smith and his team of experienced principled career agents, prosecutors, have followed the facts and the law wherever they bleed. any questions about this matter will have to be answered by the filings made in court. >> laura: senator, he is out building, the largest investigation in u.s. history, most of the charges of course like trent passing, doors open, people walk in, you know, some bad actors obviously indicted and charged for a much more serious things. but this is the focus of the u.s. government now? this? >> yeah, so, laura, merit garland and jack smith are leading what i say is the most ideologically charged investigation in american history. now obviously we all agree that anyone who committed acts of violence, especially against a law enforcement officer on that day or committed property crime should be pursued. but they have been throwing the book at grandmas wearing a red maga hat and on the grounds of the united states capitol. again, this is the kind of politicized environment that the defendant of justice has put around this investigation after years, you might say tonight's indictment is just the capstone indicting not only a man who is a former president, chief political opponent today on charges which i think is clearly first amendment protected activity on novel, creative legal theories that have never been tested in a court of. >> laura: law senator, you and i talked about how the biden administration always pretends to care so much about norm and dignity and bringing respect back to the united states, that joe biden was going to be the conduit for that. with all of your experience in foreign affairs, what do you think other countries, other governments are thinking about our country now with all of this playing out? >> i'm sure many of our friends and partners around the world are dismayed as they see a scene reminiscent of a third world banana republic, seeking the former leader of the country, today's chief political opponent of the president. i am sure a lot of our adversaries like china or iran are pleased to see this kind of unprecedented action by the administration against his chief political opponent bound to cause more division, distraction in washington at a time we need to be confronting our adversaries, you don't have to believe with anything president trump said or did on january 6th, or leading up to it. his allegations of fraud in 2020 i think anyone should be dismayed that the administration in power is pursuing its chief political opponent on such flimsy, novel untested theories that go up against the president's first amendment rights. >> laura: he is going to seek a speedy trial. he want this is done lick itty split, as fast as possible, why? >> obviously they want it done before the election, why he brought the indictment in washington d.c., 97% democratic and a very liberal obama judge. i can't say it's a great setting for the former president. up front constitutional challenge against these charges that even if they fail at the district court, would go to the court of appeals, be settled by a supreme court on a case of such magnitude. >> laura: how ironic is it, senator, that the underlying professed concern by the biden administration is that democracy was under attack. the same people who want to pack the court, abolish the electoral college and now showcasing to the world our country as, you know, possessing a system that criminalizes political differences. how does what they are doing to trump not hurt the democratic reputation around the world? xi has to be laughing tonight. >> yeah, laura i think it's what psychiatrists call projection, they talk about donald trump, shredding the norms, democrats have been doing for the last 2.5 years, in particular with the department of justice turning it in many instances into the forced arm of the democratic party of the progressive left in america and tonight's another worrying example of that. you don't have to agree with anything that the president said or did, but you can recognize that it's the same kind of first amendment protected activities in which democrats engage ever every election in this century. >> laura: do you have any doubt, senator, if trump went away tomorrow, is he not going to do that, let's say he did, and another challenger got close to beating biden, maybe it's desantis, do you have any doubt that this justice department would seek to prosecutor investigate governor desantis on something he did perhaps sending the migrants over to california or up to new york, maybe federal kidnapping charges, i mean do you doubt that this would be used as an enforcement tool for political victory? >> i don't think you can rule that out given garland's conduct in office, it's not just donald trump. it's moms and dads protesting at school board meetings, cat licks going to a latin mass, pro life activist singing hims out of abortion clinics, this administration used the department of justice as a weapon against conservatives and republicans while excusing misconduct by the progressive left. remember they wouldn't even arrest people who were violating the law by protesting outside of supreme court justice holmes. it took a hitman showing up from california before they made an arrest in those cases. >> laura: now in the hunter biden case, solicitation of bribery done with a wink and a nod, that's no problem, you can get away with that, having a different opinion on election result that is a federal crime for federal crimes. senator thank you for joining us. back with our legal team. who you remember was the former attorney for bret testimony, and bret tolman. a former attorney himself. the defendant had a right like every american to speak publicly about the election, even to claim falsely there had been an outcome determining fraud during the election and that he had won. so, they concede he had the right to a different opinion, but what? what -- so they throw that in there to try to protect themselves violate what they are still protecting. >> yeah, laura, that's what they are doing. in fact it was quite a shocking statement when i first read that at the beginning of this indictment. they are giving some credibility to the notion that a candidates can say what they want to say, freedom of speech, they can be wrong and they can even say things that are false. that's longstanding law that has been established in this country. so, they give that and then at the same time they try to unwind that and go through their legal and factual wrangling to try to pull back those protections and development of case law over the years. that's when you knew they were in trouble, when they were going to try to force a round peg into a square hole in this instance because they start out with that sort of acknowledgment as opposed to when i drafted speaking indictments, i would start out with the most outrageous conduct of the defendant alleged in the indictment. and it would be -- it would grab you, shock you, and it would make the reader understand this is a very serious case, that didn't happen here. >> tim, people have to know we actually read the indictment and quoting from it. each of these conspiracies, which builds on widespread mistrust, the defendant was creating through pervasive and destabling lies about election fraud, targeted a bedrock function of the u.s. government. tim, to reference, destabling lies after this justice department facilitated the russian collusion investigation, all the other hits on trump, the fisa application, the fraud and the filing of those and the dossier, that didn't stabilize the public's view of the implementation of justice tase in the united states, that's the standard? well, then they violated it. >> that's a great point when you think about it. first few years of presidency he was handcuffed because he had everything going on with the mule i remember investigation, it was ultimately -- mueller investigation, this position within dhs as a minister of misinformation. it does come back to that bedrock first amendment principle of are we going to start criminalizing you for saying things that you disagree with. senator cotton said it a few minutes ago, you don't have to agree with what donald trump or giuliani said about election fraud, this should not be within the purview of the department of justice. we don't put people in jail because we disagree with them, because they are dangerous. >> laura: putin does. xi does. i mean, they put people in jail all the time, they disappear altogether. they would love trump to disappear, i'm sure. bret i think they want him in jail. >> skip the trial, too. >> laura: they would be happy to skip the trial at this point. bret, they want people in jail. and they want donald trump in jail. i honestly think that's been their goal from 2015, they didn't want him to win in 2016, they wanted him behind bars and send a message to anyone like trump who has his views coming down the pike. i think there is a lot of stuff that he will uncover if he gets back in, they don't want him anywhere near the levers of power, your reaction, it's a big statement but that's my view. >> no, you're exactly right. in fact, that was my first thought when you saw him demand the speedy trial, if they get their speedy trial within 70 days, conviction rates are 95% in federal cases, have you a judge that will be able to apply the guidelines in the most harsh way, they are looking at this not just for, you know, a few months in prison, looking to put him in prison for years as soon as they can because that -- they've seen what's happened when they just do the charges and a judge that pushes the case down the road, they know if they can get to the end of this quickly then he will be in prison, much more difficult for him to run. >> laura: this is the united states of america. i am going to say it, we are the beacon on the hill for the rest of the world. this is how you do justice, this -- this is how you are supposed to do justice, equal application -- right? well we were, tim, is that in jeopardy tonight? >> i think it is. i mean, it's not just this one case though. i know, it is something that as a criminal attorney i've seen the erosion in doj over the past several years where they are bringing cases that are based on politics and not upon honest and integrity principles of justice, you know, this is perhaps, you know, the most recent and the most public of them. but this happens every single day where they are putting people in jail and depriving them of their rights and cheating and cutting corners to prioritize convictions over justice. so, it is something, there has been an erosion, perhaps this is one of the most public instances of it that the next administration will take to actually change things. >> laura: well, the rot runs deep at doj. gentleman, thank you for staying with us for this hour, joining meaned ryan ceo of american majority. the destabilizers of democracy. who are they tonight in the united states? >> well, you have to start with ag garland, that weasel knew exactly what his job was day one. it wasn't equal application of the law, it was to weaponize the-shall and to use it as a intimidation to status quo in dc and have others to have second thoughts about challenging it. this is targeting political opposition, political interference in the 2024 elections. it's of course a weak premise of trying to criminalize disputing question john gore, john kerry and hillary clinton. the point i want to make, everything that we're hearing discussed right now, this boils down to one thing, it's who decides? and donald trump's greatest sin in the eyes of the ruling class that he came to dc as the great outsider thinking we are still operating in constitutional republic, he thought he decided domestic and foreign policy. the administrative state actors, corporate propagandists think they decide, duly elected representatives, or administrative state bureaucrats i think the american people are going to see over the course of the next months and years this conflict common open more so in which they understand we have two governing floss tees at work, constitutional republic versus administrative state, like oil and water, they do not fit together, at some point we are going to have to decide what path we are going down. >> laura: no one voted for the bureaucrats, the doj, some are great people, a lot are burrowed in to do political work. they are political actors a lot of them. >> 100%, elections come and go, but the state remains. and i think that's something that a lot of the american people are waking up to that we're living under a bit of illusion of a constitutional republic, the thuggish administrative state says no, we are the ones who decide. >> laura: it's not donald trump who is trying to dewife people of their rights, the u.s. government are trying to deprive people of the opportunity to vote for him in the next election, who's running the conspiracy here tonight in washington d.c.? ned, thank you, thanks to all of you for staying with us tonight. jesse's next. >> a fox news alert, former president trump set to appear in federal court in washington tomorrow after being charged with four new crimes in the special council investigation into his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. at this point in time, trump is under investigation in four criminal cases, so far three of those have brought a total of 78 charges, that's centuries of prison time combined if he is convicted, i'm todd. >> i'm carley shimkus, for

Related Keywords

Kt Mcfarland , Kat Timpf , I Love You America , Laura , The Ingrahm Angle , Donald Trump , Counts , Obstruction , Federal Court In Washington , January 6th Charging Document Indicting , 6 , Four , January 6th , Two , Point , Conspiracy , Department Of Justice Building Tonight , Embarrassment , Democrats , Entrance , Banner , Credo , 2024 , Jack Smith , Lawyer , Attack , Nation , Distinction , Dysfunction , Hack , Mar A Lago Documents Case , Democracy , Capitol On January 6th , Accountability , Assault , Seat , 2021 , January 6th 2021 , Day One , Capitol , Commitment , Guy , Glass , One , Demogog , Criminalization , Disinformation , Order , Capitol Riot , Motion , Amendment , View , Conviction , Material , Thing , Obama , Law Firm , Hunter Biden , Summary Judgment , Election , President , Nothing , Charge , Doubts , Crime , Boys , Shiller , Jail , Matter , Wasn T Stacey Abrams , Bush V Gore , 2000 , 2016 , It , Fraud , Timing , Governor , Race , Diatribe , Loss , Georgia , Country , Polls , Poll , Approval , Low , Cbs , 40 , Joe Biden , Anyone , Doesn T , Eyes , Devon Archer , Corruption , Primary , Testimony , Wobbling , Weight , Gop , Outcome , Bidens , Phone , Take , Rally , Will , Influence , System , Grandmothers , Line , Law Enforcement , Hit Jobs , Guise , Military Vets , Someone , United States Capitol , Public , Message , United States , Don T , Door , Doj , Establishment , Scrutiny , Spies , Entire Dc , Chinese , Running Wild , Place , Goal , Fentanyl Explosion , Emotion , Human Trafficking , Decreep , Finish Line , Course , Campaign , To , Campaign Headquarters , Nothing Else , Candidates , Campaigning , Podcast , Dc Establishment , Tom Massi , Stand , Issues , Border , Trade , China , Migrants , Desantis , Millions , Bills , Tens , California , Process , Type , Effort , Building Manager , Valet , Mar A Lago , 54 , People , Money , Status , Anyone Else , Cooperation , Targets , Swamp , Populous , 2017 , Document , Drive Trump , Frauds , Victim , Attorney , Tornado , Bars , Tohlman , Indictment , Opponent , Prosecution , Disagreement , Feeling , Advice , Anywhere , Version , Saying , What January 6th Committee , Knowledge , Claims , State Of Mind , Lot , Cases , Indictments , Bret Tolman , White Collar Criminal Defense , Life , Hollywood Movie , Athlete , Fantastic , Prosecutor , Actor , Swing , Jump Shot , To Grand Injuries , Cringy , Position , Wrangling , Intent , Reference Tameness Rea , Strategy , Msnbc , Coconspirators , Lawyers , History , Crossroads , Reason , Dread Scott , Something , Confidence , Tim , Ways , Rule Of Law , Brown Versus Board Of Education , Supreme Court , Administration , Individual , Solicitor General , Wall , Neil Katial , Trump Indictment , Analysis , Liar , Credibility , Court Cases , Appellate Courts , Substance , Arguments , Team , Statements , Investigation , Witnesses , They Haven T , Some , Former , Punch , Fannie Lewis , Andrew Mccabe , Statute , Person , Fact , Agreement , Networks , Republicans , Legislature , Voters , Furtherance , Majority , House , Pennsylvania , Arizona , Member , Voting , Congress , Politicians , Section , Rights , Anybody , 241 , Another , Constitution , Lang Raj , Problems , Objective , They Don T Care , Evidence , Pull Pat Tory , Grand Jury , Case , Prosecutors , Everything , Problem , Element , 20 , Kind , Witness , Doubt , Information , Interviews , Magnitude , Mess , Violations , Withholding , Trial , President Of The United States , Laughing Stock Line , Tv , 2 5 , Everyone , Documents , Stay , Fbi , On June 8th , 70 , June 8th , 8 , Bribe , July 26th , Bburisma , 10 Million , 0 Million , 26 , Charges , Trump , Immunity , Superseding Indictment , Business Partner , Phone Calls , Pattern , Son , Phone Call , Help , Burisma , Pressuring , Business Partners , Execs , House Oversight Committee Share James Comer , Clock Work , Belief , Charging Documents , What S Going On , Series , Common Sense , Whether , Coincidences , Biden Corruption , Justice System , Thiamins Rea , Investigations , Attention , Both , Crimes , Family , Nationals , Dollars , Messaged , Increase , Dinner , Law , Unintended Consequences , Doing , Fundraising , Outlaw , Acts , Faith , Institution , Rule , Distrust , Spread , Trust , Atmosphere , Anger , 2020 , Oversight Committee , Joke , Institutions , Basis , Notes , Government , Mayors , Damage , Self Preservation , Irs , Win , Merrick Garland , Situation , Way , Washington D C , Deep State , Stands , Bureaucracy , Comer , Weren T , Steps , Involvement , Flight , Whistleblower , Justice , Relation , Questions , They Weren T , Business Dealings , Tiers , Well Congressman , Things , Connection , Servants , Dozens , Fronts , Lord , Investigators , Form , Wires , Didn T , Credibility Human Informant , Bank Accounts , Ukraine , 1023 , Prosecutor Token , Trump Didn T , Facts , Trials , Steam Ahead , Statement , Pages , Special Council , Page , David , Signature , Mints , Fox News Correspondent , 45 , Count , Is , 2 , Council , Proceeding , Attempt , Half , 4 , 3 , Defendant , Results , Bedrock Function , Lies , Counting , Collecting , State Charge , Fulton County , Burger , Federal Court In Washington On Thursday , Athens , Reaction , Presence , Police , Appearance , Vivec , Banana Republic , Third World , Precedent , Each , The Other Two , Couple , Theory , Office , Officials , Alvarez , 2012 , It Doesn T , Definition , Behavior , Rule Of Thumb , Grounds , Job , Indictment Push Thes The Boundary , Data , Middle , Amy Chutkin , Play , Non Application Of The Law , Ap , 2022 , Defendants , Assistant Public Defender , Punisher , Washington S Federal Trial Court , Boiyce , Schiller , Alexander Vinman , Samantha Powers , Drawing , Jeffrey Epstein , Harvey Weinstein , The Truth , Venue , Choice , Jurisdiction , Competition , Suit , Foia , Bottom , Veil , Special Prosecutor , Transparency , Persecution , Change , Leadership , Borders , State Campaign , Ballot Harvesting , Learning , 50 , Multiethnic Coalition , Crook , People Don T Care , Razor Election , Landscape , Landslide , Mandate , Pledge , Difference , Reagan , 1980 , Log Over , Client List , Conservative , High School , Young Boys , Noble Lie , Stuff , Sense , Recoiling , Fairness , Culture , Breaking News , Human Beings , Animals , Human Nature , Truth , Each Other , Hunter Biden Laptop Story , Covid 19 , 19 , Prescheduled , Calling , Manifesto , Bret , Disinfectant , Sunshine , Llman , Rate , Dishonesty , Con Fed , Function , Kinds , Description , Conduct , Manure , Whip Cream , Fraudsters , Government Contracts , 371 , Incitement Charge , Avenues , Speech , Incitement , Riot , Voices , Urgent , Bat , Content , Idea , Defense , Mensrea , Track Record , Background , Elements , Black , Mens Rea One , Anything , District Court , Record , Appellate , Appeals , Challenge , Future , Importance , Defense Attorney , Hyperbolic , Novel Untested Constitutional Questionable Theory , Gravity , Opinion , Dangerous Misinformation , Attacks , Nonemergency , Emergency , Meaning , Responsibility , Power , Conclusion , Politics , Adversaries , Decisions , Fabric , Rewards , Purpose , Election Fraud , Knowingly , Certified , Trump Equivocate , Allegation , Beyond A Reasonable Doubt , Mountain , Hunter Biden Investigation , Hands Off , Heads Up , Wonder , Road , Approach , Benefit , Merit Garland , Allegiance , Accused , Dc Bar , Protection , Mother , Sensibilities , Mentality , Making , Sitting , Being , Senator , Staying On , Senate , Intel Committee , Janing Me Now Tom Cotton , Thoughts , Chance , Word , Activities , Producer , Channel , Without A Serious Constitutional Challenge , Zea Lot , Charged Mcdonald , Theories , Oman , Garland , Presidency , Victory , None , Certification , Elegance , Master Piece , Southern District Of New York , Grace , Taylor Swift , Speaking Indictment , Spin , Ooo , Topic , Pundit , Opposition , Party , Part , Candidate , Sounds , Third World Banana Republic Territory , Speak , Step , Msnbc Pundit , Nancy Pelosi , Mitch Mcconnell , Januarr Democracy , Career Men And Women Of The Justice Department , Career Agents , Court , Actors , Most , Building , Filings , Trent Passing , Doors Open , Focus , Property Crime , Law Enforcement Officer , Violence , American History , Environment , Red Maga Hat , Grandmas , Book , Capstone Indicting , Activity , Novel , Chief , Respect , Dignity , Court Of , Countries , Governments , Conduit , Experience , Foreign Affairs , World , Partners , Many , Friends , Scene Reminiscent Of A Third World , Action , Leader , Iran , Distraction , Division , Allegations , Fast , First Amendment Rights , Lick Itty Split , 97 , Court Of Appeals , Setting , Concern , Electoral College , Differences , Xi , Reputation , Projection , Psychiatrists , Instances , Particular , Norms , Left , Arm , Example , Challenger , Department , Kidnapping , New York , Enforcement Tool , Moms , Dads , Given Garland , Cat , Abortion Clinics , Latin Mass , School Board Meetings , Pro Life Activist Singing Hims , Conservatives , Progressive Left , Hitman Showing , Protesting Outside Of Supreme Court Justice Holmes , Weapon , Excusing Misconduct , Election Result , Solicitation , Bribery , Arrest , Nod , Wink , Bret Testimony , Right , Beginning , Notion , Freedom Of Speech , Case Law , Instance , Protections , Development , Trouble , Hole , Peg , Round , Acknowledgment , Sort , Conspiracies , Reader , Destabling , Mistrust , Application , Collusion , Filing , Dossier , Hits , Russian , Fisa , Standard , Implementation , Didn T Stabilize The Public , Tase , Mule , Bedrock , Misinformation , Principle , Dhs , Minister , Giuliani , Purview , Putin , Views , Pike , 2015 , Thought , Levers , Conviction Rates , Guidelines , 95 , Prison , End , Rest , Beacon , The Hill , Equal , Erosion , Integrity , Principles , Convictions , Cheating , Corners , Gentleman , Rot , Ceo , Meaned Ryan , Ag Garland , Destabilizers , Weasel , American Majority , Intimidation , Others , It Wasn T Equal Application , Status Quo In Dc , Elections , Interference , Premise , Disputing Question , Sin , Hillary Clinton , John Gore , John Kerry , State Actors , Foreign Policy , Dc , Constitutional Republic , Ruling Class , Outsider , Propagandists , State Bureaucrats , Representatives , Estate , Work , Conflict , Water , Soil , Floss Tees , Constitutional Republic Versus Administrative , Bureaucrats , Path , Remains , Bit , Come And Go , Thuggish Administrative , Illusion Of A Constitutional Republic , 100 , Opportunity , Ones , Trump Set , Thanks , Ned , Jesse , Fox News Alert , Efforts , Three , Total , Todd , Carley Shimkus , 78 ,