washington. >> bill: nice to see you, i'm>> bill: hemmer live in new york. john and sandra have this off, the last day of july. former burisma board member finally appearing, comes as the doj dismisses speculation they were trying to intimidate archer by requesting a judge over the weekend to begin the problem of imprisoning archer on an unrelated fraud conviction. house judiciary committee jim jordan calling archer's interview productive today. >> mr. jordan, what did devon say? >> it was very productive, i'm going to wait until the end result, i have to run to another appointment here. >> anything you can share with us? >> very productive. >> gillian: fox team coverage begins now, jonathan turley is a short time away, and fox business hillary vaughn kicks us off live from capitol hill. what's the latest you are hearing from sources about the testimony? >> hi, gillian. we are hearing they are getting some new information from this interview with hunter's ex-business partner devon archer, another piece of the puzzle that republicans hope provides a clearer picture of whether the president was or was not involved in his son hunter's business deals. today lawmakers say devon archer told them president biden did end up on speaker phone a number of times while hunter was at dinner with business associates, but democrats say that's what any dad would do. the -- >> hunter would put his father on speaker phone with whomever was at dinner and there was no indication that he had any idea who was at dinner with them. it was just say hello, i'm at dinner here, and there was nothing related to his business dealings. it's kind of a preposterous premise to think that a father should not say hello to people that the son is at dinner with. >> as the house weighs moving forward with an impeachment inquiry, republicans say they have a duty not to turn a blind eye. congressman mike johnson saying an impeachment might be on the table but first launching an impeachment investigation is important, more subpoena and discovery power but democrats say republicans are prying into the president's son's business. >> i think a lot of my colleagues need to go back to school and maybe go into the work of being detectives because seemingly that's what they want to do right now is play detective and weaponize the government. >> democrats insist it's a waste of time, you heard earlier jim jordan popping out of the interview saying they have learned new information and so far it's been very productive. gillian. >> gillian: keep us posted for the rest of the hour. thank you. >> bill: from the hill to david spunt, more on the hunter probe and what do republicans have, david, as leverage to get cooperation. >> sure, i didn't mean to can you you off. you heard hillary vaughn mention the "i" word, impeachment, capitol hill, but there is a difference between that and a vote, and one republican is warning using the word impeachment carefully. watch. >> if we are not allowed to get all the information of doj, fbi and irs continue to stone wall the investigation, that is a tool at the speaker's fingertips, much different than an impeachment vote. we have to be better than the left, better than nancy pelosi who politicized impeachment. i do not want to see us do that. we have to be deliberative, have to be serious, and we have to show an overwhelming abundance of evidence for this thing doesn't move forward. >> bill, regarding this hunter biden investigation, democrats are taking a completely different viewpoint of the entire thing. watch this. >> i think this is a witch hunt. if, you know, hunter biden has broken the law he should be held accountable for it. i don't think he's being treated any differently than anyone else who has been accused of the crimes he's been accused of. he's had a lot of trouble in his life and joe biden has been open about it and shown as any caring father would a lot of concern to help hunter biden recover. >> from a justice department perspective, expect hunter biden's legal team to be at it again this week, working with the doj, specifically the u.s. attorney's office in delaware on a revised plea deal, or one that provides more information for mary ellen noreika, refused to be a rubber stamp last week. you heard the senator from connecticut say it's a typical case, treated like anyone else. legal experts on both sides of the aisle this was an extraordinary case, hunter biden was not treated like anybody else. will the judge noreika approve a revised plea deal. >> bill: take two on that one, see how it goes. thank you. >> gillian: jonathan turley, george washington university law professor and fox news contributor. so we just heard from members out of this meeting on a break, particularly congressman goldman. he said in one breath that there is still no connection in this testimony between hunter biden and his father when it comes to foreign business. but he also just interestingly, you heard him there say that archer confirmed that hunter biden will put his dad on speaker phone in these meetings and he would say stuff to whoever was assembled. now, i'm not sure how the best way to kind of like break this down with you is, but i got to imagine that a jury would have strong feelings about this if this were to make it into a court. >> come on, gillian. goldman is right. you know, that when my children engage in multi-million dollar influence peddling in foreign countries i often do what any father would do and ask to be put on speaker phone at their dinners. it's hard, one of them just graduated high school, so she's still working her way up. but you know -- >> gillian: good for her. >> yes, thank you, i'm looking forward to that romanian connection she can lay out. but you know, it's really amazing to watch the extent in which people like representative goldman will refuse to recognize any evidence. you could have a picture of president biden actually burying mountains of gold and they would say he was simply doing gardening. so you know, we have to get beyond that and just keep our eye on what the evidence is, and the evidence is increasingly defensemening. goldman himself tripped the wire when he tried to question whistleblowers in the last hearing and he ended up demolishing the president's defense. goldman got the whistleblowers to say yeah, the president did speak to his son about his business dealings. but we now have numerous, not just some dinner put on a speaker phone, we have numerous witnesses and events where then vice president biden and now president biden was involved. and you have witnesses, like tony who said he sat down to discuss deals with joe biden. and so it's -- we are getting past the point of denyability. but if he's testified as we have heard that joe biden was on numerous calls with business associates, it's hard to look at what the president said and not say that he's been lying to the american people for years. >> gillian: do you think -- obviously this would have to play out again in a court of law, but if what rep goldman is saying is in fact the truth, the reality, and what archer is saying is the reality, and biden was put on speaker phone and spoke to hunter's business associates many times, how does that hold up under legal scrutiny? is that something that you think is covered or do you think that is something that would count as foreign influence peddling? >> well there's no question there was influence peddling here and what the democrats consistently ignore as with much of the media is that joe biden was the subject of the influence peddling. so, yes, the money went through hunter, but he was the object of the influence peddling, and the extent he knew about these deals he was certainly involved. and you have these allegations that money was transferred through a really amazing labyrinth of accounts to hide these transfers to the biden family. but the lies about saying i had no knowledge, no involvement with these foreign dealings become more serious when one asks why was he lying. why did the president lie during the presidential campaign, why did he lie as president to say he had no knowledge of the dealings when he is repeatedly connected to dinners and events. even an audio tape of him telling his son he's in the clear on these dealings. i mean, at some point the american people will gradually resent being played for chums. >> gillian: and ask you what happened in a miami courtroom, where a long time mar-a-lago maintenance worker appeared, he's been charged along with the former president in the conspiracy to destroy evidence, how do you think it will impact the president's case? >> what's interesting about the charges, not dependent on trump's lawyers. one of the concerns raised about the original indictment, many charges were founded in statements by his lawyers and that could end up producing serious appellate problems for the department of justice. this could be a sort of insurance run approach as they have in baseball, they are trying to get some counts that are not dependent on those lawyers, and not necessarily on the original search. these counts tend to be the crimes they prefer, lying to the government, obstruction. and the question is can they close this loop. they are saying that these individuals were told by the former president that he would like to have these tapes destroyed. and there are other witnesses who have claimed the president praised hillary clinton's lawyers and staff for deleting all these tens of thousands of emails. all of that has to be proven in a court of law. it doesn't make it true. but is it damaging? of course it's damaging. >> gillian: jonathan, we have to leave it there. thanks as always for taking time with us. we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> bill: we have a developing story out of haiti, an american nurse and her young daughter were kidnapped. the same day the state department told all u.s. citizens to leave that island country. we'll bring you the latest on this developing situation on this monday afternoon, gillian. >> gillian: also this. new polling shows the former president trump's lead in the gop primary is widening. ron desantis, though, is in new hampshire today rolling out his own economic plan. is that going to help him make up some of that ground between now and the first debate? ben breaks down the state of the race for us coming up next. oing. the grocery store and the gas station alone are taking a big chunk out of our paychecks. fortunately, you've earned the valuable va home loan benefit. the newday100 va loan lets you borrow up to 100% of your home's value, not just 80%. and with home values near record highs, that could mean a lot of money. let newday turn your home's equity into cash. okay everyone, our mission is complete balanced nutrition. together we provide nutrients to support immune, muscle, bone, and heart health. yaaay! woo hoo! ensure with 25 vitamins and minerals and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ (vo) verizon small business days are coming. from august 7th to the 13th. now is the time to partner with our experts. get started today with verizon business. it's your business. it's your verizon. martial arts is my passion. i work out whenever i can. but with my moderate- to-severe eczema, it can be tough. now, i'm staying ahead of it. dupixent helps heal your skin from within. so you can have clearer skin, and noticeably less itch. serious allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. tell your doctor about new or worsening eye problems such as eye pain or vision changes including blurred vision, joint aches and pain, or a parasitic infection. don't change or stop asthma medicines without talking to your doctor. ask your doctor about dupixent. >> gillian: the state department weighed in on reports an american nurse and her young daughter have been kidnapped in haiti. listen. >> we are aware of the reports that two u.s. citizens were kidnapped in haiti. obviously the safety and security of american citizens overseas is our highest priority. we are in regular contact with the haitian authorities and will work with them and the u.s. government and agency partners. because it's an ongoing law enforcement investigation there's not any more detail i can offer. >> gillian: the kidnapping happened on the same day the state department urged all americans to flee haiti immediately. the incident highlighting the prevalence of gang violence on the caribbean island. molly line has the breaking details. what are you learning this how? >> this christian humanitarian organization this nurse was from new hampshire worked for is asking for prayers, and they are saying alix dorsainvil, the wife of el roi haiti director and their child were kidnapped from the campus near port-au-prince. a video on el roi's website highlights her contributions. >> my name is alix, a nurse from new hampshire. >> el roi reports the team is working to secure the mother and child's safe return writing alix is a deeply compassionate and loving person. considers haiti her home and the haitian friends and family. she has worked tirelessly as is he serves the people of haiti in the name of jesus. before that, she was a student at weston college in massachusetts. an front line hello as nurses are, and at this time we are frightened for her, concerned for her and pray for her and her family and the safe return and the return of her child. >> on the very day dorsainvil was taken the u.s. state department issued a do not travel for haiti, also ordering nonenergy government employees to leave the country. state department officials offered very little detail to what they know about the potential kidnapping as to whether or not who may be holding this mother and child, and as to whether or not any ransom has been requested. gillian. >> gillian: molly line in boston for us, thank you. bill. >> so at the end of the day, economic policy is really not even as much about dollars and cents. obviously it is, but the bigger question is what kind of a country do we want to have, and i want a country where americans that work hard, americans that get the most out of their god given ability, are able to get ahead in this country, they are able to raise a family, and they are able to lead fulfilling and productive lives and if we can't get that right, we are not going to succeed as a country. >> bill: he is busy on the trail ahead of the debate, new polling suggesting that desantis and several other republican hopefuls have a lot of catching up to do. the a poll shows donald trump with 54% lead among republican candidates. desantis followed at 17%, no one else had more than 5% support in the survey. fox news contributor and spectator editor at large, ben, good to have you in on a monday afternoon. a lot with the polling in a second, here is desantis's economic plan on screen, breaking up with china, cutting red tape, securing energy independence, ending esg, about ten of them, secure the border, reform the fed, oppose bailouts and fight federal spending. all the categories, ben, should play well in a republican primary, should they not? >> well, they absolutely should, bill. but i think as you've said with that poll, you know, we are looking at a situation right now where ron desantis is probably the only person who has any hope of being the presidential nominee other than donald trump, and yet he has been forced into a situation here, i think, where he can't really seal the deal with the republican voters who he needs to come over to his side. and it's not just a matter of sort of having a number of other candidates in the race who are getting 3%, 4%, that kind of thing. it's really just that there is so much investment in donald trump by republican voters at this point that i think we have to say that in all likelihood, all roads lead to him, he's likely to be the nominee, that there is really not a situation where any of these legal challenges he's facing have damaged him enough to a point where republicans are going to peel off away from him. and the problem for republicans, they are staring down a difficult path when it comes to all the other aspects of this, the independent voters and those who are solidly against the former president, who they will have to convince to come to their side in order to have a chance in the general election. i mean, if you have a donald trump nomination that has sealed up at the end of super tuesday, then you are looking at a situation where unfortunately, for republicans, just the truth, he's going to be looking up at joe biden in terms of the different polls we could predict, based on all that we know right now. and that's a real challenge for republicans and i'm not sure they have a solution for it. >> bill: some are trying to knock him off, chris sununu was talking, and this is their commentary on trump's lead and what they said about him. >> i get national polls but where is the conversation happening, new hampshire and iowa. new hampshire, i think three of the last four polls from clear politics has him under 40 from his own party, the hard core base voter in iowa and new hampshire, the majority are not with him. that's a huge opportunity for one of these candidates to start surging and if we get it down to trump and one other candidate, maybe even trump and two other candidates, he's done. >> bill: is that solid hope, ben, or -- false hope? >> look, i understand why chris sununu wants that to be the truth. i don't think that's the truth. i think the reality is that if you even got it down to 2 or 3 candidates, i think that donald trump would still be in the lead. and i don't say that as someone who is a big fan of the former president. the numbers are what they are. we have to deal with reality and i think unfortunately for a lot of these republicans who have wanted to move on from donald trump, wanted younger leadership and the like, simple pact is to beat a man you have to beat the man and that to me is something that is not being done by any of these candidates, you are not making a stronger message to the voting electorate as it stands. and look, ron desantis is a phenomenal governor, great accomplished conservative governor for his state but he has found it difficult to export those ideas in a way that i think is going to end up winning him, you know, the overwhelming majority of the vote. perhaps he can win in iowa but a challenge for him in new hampshire and south carolina and beyond. >> bill: they'll have a crack at it in 23 days when we have the debate in milwaukee. see what we get then. thanks. ♪♪ >> gillian: paul reuben has died. he died after a six-year battle with cancer. alexis mcadams has more. >> saying paul bravely and privately fought cancer for years with his trademark tenacity and wit, a lot of people were surprised when they opened up instagram and saw this, emotional message this afternoon, the comedic affect saying please accept my apology for not going public what i've been facing the last six years. announcement of his death, i've felt love and respect for my fans, supporters, he turned it into a cultural phenomenon through films and tv, and reportedly had a brain tumor six years ago and had it removed. we heard that was successful but now the latest update, so reuben died on sunday night at this time, unclear with what kind of cancer most recently, a lot of tributes will continue to pour in. >> gillian: bill. >> bill: age 70. thank you. we grew up with pee wee herman. a chicago family torn apart by violence. how a deadly shooting over the weekend reopened an old wound for a grieving mother, gillian. >> gillian: oakland naacp with a shocking rebuke of the city's leadership. what they say is behind the city's rise in crime. rafael mangual joins us next after the break. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ what do we always say, son? liberty mutual customizes your car 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don't yet know, though, bill, whether that maybe happened without then vice president biden being aware that he was on speaker phone. that part of this has not been confirmed yet, but these pieces are moving hot and heavy and very fast right now. >> bill: the interview, john turley, you are right about that, and what dan goldman, the democratic congressman from here in new york representing the lower east side of manhattan was suggesting, dads talk to their sons all the time and regardless as to whether or not they are sitting at a table with multi-million dollar business deals on the line or not, it's hard to say who you know is on the other end of the phone, suggesting that this was all innocent. how archer answered those questions is really anybody's guess, gillian. keep in mind, he and hunter biden go back decades and they have done deals all over the world, not just in washington, d.c., but places like kazakhstan, ukraine, china, some of the bigger players we believe were happening behind the scenes. >> the other thing, bill, white house messaging, and we talked about this over two weeks, it's been shifting when it comes to what precisely the president had to do with hunter's foreign business deals with anything, but the president remains, he has stood by his words so far, insisting he has never even spoken to his son about foreign business deals if what goldman says archer said today is in fact proven to be true and corroborated by others down the line, that's certainly at a minimum underclaims -- excuse me, undercuts the claim from the president himself. >> bill: seems as if the language changed. a lot of people picked up about it a week ago when karine jean-pierre at the microphone said that president biden was never in business with his son and the waves from the comment seemed to drift for several days, see whether or not they come back to the same wording. andy biggs we saw climbing into the car, he was inside the room, and hopefully we will hear from others, as we await specifics based on the question and answer today. >> gillian: and important to note kevin mccarthy's comments from friday, he's been trying to walk back or at least curtail his colleagues, republican colleagues enthusiasm moving forward with an impeachment inquiry based on the emergency evidence and claims from whistleblowers and witnesses. he's trying to make the case that the parties should not be pushing for impeachment, per se, but the parties should be pushing for expanded powers to investigate, hold the american president accountable. he says anybody calling on the president to be impeached is one step at least ahead of him as leader of the party. he wants to reign that back in. >> bill: interesting, on saturday for those folks paying attention to this or not, the department of justice sent devon archer a letter over the weekend, remember, he faces jail time. he's managed to put it off until now but got caught up in a matter involving native american tribes in america and is facing upwards of a year in prison. andy biggs, i think we can play that back, we watched on "america's newsroom," dana and i watched devon archer go in. chad was there, and archer had no response to any question that was fired his way. however, biggs did and we have it queued up for you. >> do you think the president of the united states is compromised based on archer's testimony? >> i think so, i think so, and we'll continue to do our due diligence and our research. >> the phone calls, a gentleman told us that all the times that joe biden was put on speaker phone or at a dinner, always necessities and things about business -- >> but he probably forgot to tell you that devon archer himself said that was an implication of who the big guy is. and archer talked about the big guy and how hunter biden always said we need to talk to my guy, we need to see what my guy is going to be here and those types of things. >> did he talk about a bribe at all, $5 million bribe? >> bill: it trailed off as he got in the car and drove away. chad pergram is reporting this, now, gillian, intriguing, archer tells the house investigators that hunter biden put then v.p. biden on a speaker phone more than 20 times to sell "the brand" in business conversations, and chad goes on to say that archer testified that there was a value of adding hunter biden to burisma's board was the brand, burisma is the energy company out of ukraine. the argument was that then vice president joe biden brought the most value to the brands, the phrase yet again. and archer stated burisma would have gone under if not for the brand, wow. in december of 2015, the owner of burisma, a gentleman -- the ceo who ran the company, placed constant pressure on hunter biden to get help from washington, d.c., regarding the ukrainian victor victor showken. to tie it together, the energy company wanting to do business in america. even a suggestion through the story they wanted to be listed on the new york stock exchange but could only do it if they got away from the investigation that was pending back in ukraine, and this is the theory that republicans have now is that they had to draw hunter biden into it, they had to bring then vice president joe biden into it, to help get the prosecutor taken out of his job, that would clear the runway so to speak in order for burisma to have greater success, specifically here in the united states. >> gillian: bill, it's also important to point out here just for some context that while this is all going on right now on capitol hill, hunter biden faces a separate probe by the department of justice who has already filed charges against him, but is continuing on an investigation, this was confirmed last week when hunter biden appeared in delaware for his first court hearing which now infamously and spectacularly fell apart when held up to scrutiny by a federal judge there, one of the things underpinning that investigation is missing evidence from people, potential witnesses like devon archer. it's going to be interesting to see how and whether anything he put forward in his deposition today influences the way that prosecutors with the justice department decide to go forward with that probe from here. >> bill: reading more from chad's email here, and if we can get chad on the air we will do it. archer testified that joe biden was put on the phone to sell the brand, i mentioned a moment ago. dinner in paris with a french energy company and in china with a gentleman by the name of jonathan li who headed up a company called vhr, and dinner in the spring of 2014 in your town, cafe milano in washington, d.c. so talked about on behalf of devon archer and appears to be the headline that he admitted today in this interview that v.p. joe biden was put on the phone more than 20 times to sell the brand. that's the headline. >> gillian: and certainly again to mention this while the president himself has insisted he has never, not even one time, spoken to his son about his foreign business dealings. we are learning if these allegations today are could -- corroborated, spoke to his son's business associates. >> bill: and the prosecutor in ukraine is fired, and a well-known clip going around about how joe biden was relaying a story in the u.s. when he was in ukraine, said that prosecutor is not fired by the time i leave you are not getting a billion dollars, and to paraphrase him from that on-camera comment and son of a blank, he was gone before he left the country. so, we thought there was a real good chance, gillian, that this transcript would not be out for days. others were a little dubious, put me in that category, i thought 3 or 4 hours. gillian, this is 3 or 4 minutes. >> gillian: seems the dam may burst further. >> bill: and the interviews, if biggs is out of there and over, it took just a matter of minutes before the story leaked. >> gillian: bill, this is all going on in the dead heat of summer literally here in washington, d.c., a time when lawmakers would rather be off on their august recess, i think the fact you are seeing so many people show up in person is testament to the idea that they want to hang around to see how this is going to develop the next day to week are really crucial, and not just the capitol hill investigation into hunter biden but the doj probe as well. they now have 30 days minus six days as accounted for by the federal judge there in delaware to rejiger a plea deal if they can and and represent it back in court. the clock is going down for hunter biden. >> bill: two blows in a matter of days, as republicans have tried to chip away at the story now, gillian, you have the judge step in at a moment where nobody really expected that, she said in court, she said it seems like you are trying to use me as a rubber stamp, and based on the language and the deal that had been arrived at between lawyers, that hunter biden was going to see immunity for countless other things for years to come if not the rest of his life and she stepped in to stop is that. and now you have archer on the verge of going to prison himself, who appeared before the house republicans and they came loaded with questions and apparently they got something that they have been trying to confirm for some time. >> gillian: important reminder that devon archer is a convicted criminal, convicted of securities fraud, he's been sentenced to a year and a day in prison yet to serve any of that time. democrats certainly supporters of the president have used that fact to accuse the republicans of relying on a pretty shoddy compromised witness at the center of all this, just wanted to flag that for folks at home to keep in mind. >> bill: you are going to get a lot of reaction coming in quickly, even though it is mid summer and the streets of the nation's capital can be empty, i know that from being down there. marjorie taylor greene sent out a tweet saying biden lied, devon archer just confirmed it. i imagine based on your conversation with jonathan turley from 40 minutes ago, echoed that if some of it came true and based on the testimony this is archer's story. i imagine more along the same type of reaction is going to come in quickly. byron joins us by television, and i don't know if you were able to hear -- it's bill hemmer live. >> yes, i do. >> bill: terrific. headline, according to chad pergram, archer tells house investigators that hunter biden put then v.p. biden on the spoker phone more than 20 times to sell "the brand" in business conversations regarding businesses in china, in ukraine, and also some events in washington, d.c. on its base, byron, your reaction. >> well, there it is. we have seen reports that's what devon archer was going to say and now we know that that's exactly what he said. and it clearly implicates then vice president biden, now president biden, in his son's business affairs and remember, joe biden has said never ever discussed business affairs with his son and he didn't know anything about his son's business. so i think both of those explanations kind of go out the window. it's going to be interesting to see when democrats get together on this how they are going to react to this. we have seen some early reaction, i think, from representative goldman, that ok, well, they talked, chatted a bit, maybe about the weather, pleasantries but never talked business, retreating that joe biden never discussed the business with his son's business associates. >> bill: my colleague, gillian turner to the conversation as well. gillian, i don't know what else you are picking up there. >> gillian: bill and byron, i was thinking about how last week de devon -- >> bill: adam schiff. >> gillian: adam schiff how he was to respond should devon archer deliver evidence and accusations the president was in direct contact with hunter biden's business associates and even he, he said that would constitute a new day, seriously, look at this more closely. do you think that what has reportedly been delivered by archer today meets that threshold? it certainly sounds like it. >> i think -- the threshold is defined by house republicans and the answer does it meet the threshold that they are going to set and i think the answer is going to be yes. because certainly a lot of them wanted to begin an impeachment i inquiry to joe biden before we knew this or was confirmed. now after having it, and remember, we are going to see representative comer, the chairman has pledged we are going to have transcripts soon for this, soon may be a couple of days, but not a long wait to actually see precisely what archer was asked and precisely what he said. but i think democrats are going to -- excuse me, republicans are going to say look, we have this direct evidence that joe biden was -- took part or was aware of his son's business dealings. they are going to say they have some indirect evidence from suspicious activity reports that biden may have been on the receiving end of financial benefits. the famous 1023 form in which you have a confidential human source at the fbi saying that biden when vice president actually accepted a bribe. so you have all of this together and they are going to say there is definitely enough smoke here to take action. >> bill: byron, stand by one moment, chad pergram live on capitol hill, you broke the news and we read it to our viewers. what else do you have after what is, what, four hours of questions? >> they are taking a break right now, and andy biggs, the republican representative from arizona says he thinks the president is compromised based on some of the testimony that he's heard. devon archer testified that there was value in adding hunter biden to burisma's board to promote what he called the brands. the argument was that the then vice president, joe biden, brought the most value to the brand. archer also stated that burisma would have gone under if not for the brand. new, owners of burisma, according to sources in the room room, tried to get help from the ukrainian prosecutor and he invested burisma for corruption. new the testimony today revealed that hunter biden called d.c. about that matter and archer testified that hunter put his father, then the vice president, on the speaker phone more than 20 teams. now archer testified that president biden was there to sell the brand. we have also learned that in 2014, president biden, then the vice president, attended a business dinner at cafe milano in washington, d.c. with the widow of the former moscow mayor who was also an oligarch, but when president biden was in office they never put sanctions on that particular oligarch. now, dan goldman, the democrat from new york, the democrat in the room and he walked out and continues to say look, there were some conversations but these conversations were very casual, according to dan goldman and said they talked about the weather. a very different picture of this from republican sources in the room, bill. >> bill: chad, hang on one second, we have a little more videotape of devon archer. you said, chad, they took a break. so the interview is still underway, correct? >> that's right. we thought they would take about four hours, he did not show up until about 10:17 or so, we were told they would probably last until after 3:00 because of breaks and lunch and everything else. one hour for the republicans, one for the democrats and one for the republicans, one for the democrats. so you can see where you get into injury and booking time here if you are a soccer fan, drift into the 3:00 hour. and we'll probably have a smattering of people come out. jim jordan, the chair of the judiciary committee, he is one of the two republicans in the room, and i should note that any potential impeachment inquiry would call -- would fall to jim jordan. so i think it's notable that he is in the room, even though the closed door transcribed interview is before the house oversight committee. >> bill: stand by, i want to roll the videotape, you were with him earlier today. this is during the break in the hallway. >> mr. archer, how important was the biden brand to your business? >> bill: some may conclude less productive than you would expect there. chad, do we see a story that is sliding here now? when you put together what you just reported with dan goldman from new york saying there were conversations but innocent, essentially. and what karine jean-pierre said a week ago, never in business, so the language changes there. is this a story that is slipping? >> it appears that there are some changes. certainly from what the white house said a couple of days ago from the press secretary. again, and it might be an issue of interpretation when dan goldman says these were casual conversations, did they just put the president on the horn. but keep in mind if you are dealing with people overseas and you are the son of the vice president, now the president, and you put him on the speaker phone, that is going to carry a certain amount of weight, especially when you are dealing with this question of the ukrainian prosecutor, and that's what republicans are trying to get at here saying wait a minute, you know, even though these were casual conversations and maybe a little more meat on the bone, bill, something we might not know until they put out the transcript of the interview perhaps thursday or friday but dan goldman might present it as a casual conversation. but the fact they swichted from the headset on to the speaker phone and you hear the vice president on the line there, probably carries a little more weight. >> gillian: chad, i'm curious whether any of your sources said to you whether anybody in the closed door deposition probed him about his claim that biden was put on speaker phone when he was vice president. did anybody ask follow-up questions when then vice president said when he was on speaker phone? seems that would be central. >> and that's exactly it, and why the transcript is going to be so important and as i say, maybe dan goldman says yes, they did in fact talk, conceding the point but was not much. but was it to put the vice president on the phone and then say look, you know, this is the implication, you are not supposed to do this with this prosecutor, you are supposed to help burisma, burisma is struggling. that's an issue of interpretation. and this is where maybe the letter and the syllable of what is said in the transcript appears different and dan goldman can say look at the transcript. but if you are the republicans and say wait a minute, just having the vice president on the phone there, that tells us something else. and the other thing that we have not talked about here in this conversation and i alluded to it this morning is that there were new bank records which were presented and discussed. we don't know what was said in those conversations this morning. i was told there were new bank records that they would question devon archer about russia, ukraine and kazakhstan. >> bill: kazakhstan has not come up a lot. >> first time i have heard it in this inquiry, absolutely. >> bill: what do you think it deals with, do you know? >> that we don't know. >> gillian: what about china, any questions to devon archer about hunter biden's involvement with chinese-backed businesses? >> we have not seen that. as i was told this morning and specific to those three nations, we just don't know yet, and that transcript, whenever it comes out, is going to be very awaited here in washington, d.c., probably the most awaited document during the august recess, as i always say, beware the ides of august. it may take longer than 3 or 4 days because they have to go through to make sure everything is accurate, have to counsel to the counsels on both sides, archer's counsel, and might have to talk to the court. is there something, and something people have not talked about, revealed in the publicized transcript that then pertains to the hunter biden blown up plea deal in delaware and the judge looks at that, and is that a factor in this. we just don't know. that's going to be very explosive when that comes out because people want to see, does it make the case that republicans are making. and when i talk to a lot of republican members on capitol hill, they were telling me before the recess, and they started the recess a little bit early, that they thought some of them, some of the more conservative members they had the goods on president biden maybe to start that impeachment inquiry, and this is where the pressure starts on house speaker kevin mccarthy. you know, he kind of dipped his toe into the impeachment waters with merrick garland a few weeks ago, and further last week, and bob goodman saying it's a paradigm shift. does kevin mccarthy over the august recess have to make a decision about impeachment and they say history does not necessarily repeat itself but sure does rhyme. former house speaker nancy pelosi was resistant to moving down the impeachment road with former president trump. phone call in late july of 2019 and by the middle of august realized it was going in a certain direction because the members were pushing for impeachment and impeachment on by september. this mirrors that. august the most dangerous political month. weird things happen in august, this could be an example of that. beware of the ides of august. >> gillian: let's talk about the transcript. do you know -- >> and looking at my phone, no, go ahead, it wasn't pertaining, go ahead. >> gillian: when it comes to the transcript, do you think it will ultimately be up to the committee to decide if they are going to release i and how they are going to release it, meaning if it's going to have redactions, if it's not going to. is doj going to get a say in what or is not released publicly as well, considering they have now said publicly, or at least in federal court last week, that they are still actively investigating hunter biden for other potential crimes? >> i don't know that doj necessarily has a say. but you could see if there is, you know, certain information that is privileged or certain information that needs to be redacted or falls into the intelligence world that they have to redact that or review that. that could take a little more time. could you be looking at a fight to get tho out at the end of the week and it drags into the week after that, possibly, there are so many different cooks in the kitchen on this. i'm not sure doj would have a say in this. >> bill: chad, do you understand the construct inside the meeting, before we bring in jonathan turley? jim jordan came out and said it's very productive. is he running the q & a? >> no, james comer is not there. this is mostly being run by the counsels and investigators on both sides. >> understood, let you go to the next hour, jonathan turley joins us in the final four minutes we have here, you see a timeline, professor, right, you see a timeline, where devon archer, if true, chad is reporting there, the then vice president was put on the phone more than 20 times at various locations, perhaps throughout the entire world. then you've got the democratic congressman, dan goldman saying there were conversations. then back ten days ago and karine jean-pierre said they were never in business. the question went to chad about whether or not the story is slipping. do you see it that way as a story that's slipping? >> well, it's breathtaking that representative goldman would come out of the meeting from what we have learned from chad and say it was just a dad being a dad. it's really unbelievable, you know. you have now an account of these meetings talking about getting rid of victor, the prosecutor, and calls being made to the vice president at that time, joe biden. you have an account of over 20 such calls. and you have someone who says yes, the president was part of moving the brand. well, what was the brand? this was an influence peddling brand and the object of that was joe biden. he was an essential part of that. and he played that role. so, if this is true, and i have no doubt with the reporting of chad, then the president has lied. he lied during the presidential debate, he has lied for years, and he's had staff at the white house lie. that's always a serious matter. the next question is, why did he lie? >> gillian: the white house, as you well know, jonathan, you talked about it ten times by now has insisted all along that this is a personal matter, the hunter biden criminal prosecution and the ongoing investigation and the house's investigation. they have said it's a personal matter. it is a family matter. does the fact that we now have a business partner of hunter biden saying on the record, not under oath, but on the record, that his father spoke directly to his business associates undercut that sort of once and for all? can they make that case later today or tomorrow? >> no, this was a family business, not a family matter. the bidens have always been in the business of influence peddling, they have for years, even some of the media that protects them has admitted that, that joe biden's brother and hunter actively sought to engage in influence peddling and this was a classic operation. but what's different is the level of involvement of then vice president joe biden, direct involvement, and it's insulting to tell the american people this is just a private family matter. what do you think influence peddling is? i mean, this is not -- you know, can we get an invitation to the biden delaware beach house. this was influence the administration, can we count joe biden as part of this brand and this team. >> bill: professor, at first look it appears all the stories republicans have been talking about for some time now, if you are to believe devon archer were true, with regard to burisma and ukraine, with regard to these chinese energy companies, and perhaps as what chad pergram was referring to, maybe even a story yet to be uncovered in kazakhstan, or two. >> right. the thing is, look, we have to put aside the democratic denials. we are not going to get people like goldman or others to admit what is clear evidence now of influence peddling, false statements, special dealings, all of that is well established. and the american people are not buying it. for all these denials, the polls show they see this for what it is. so, we are back to the question of speaker mccarthy when he -- he said a few days ago what do you want me to do about this? you want me just to walk away? we now have one of the closest friends of hunter biden saying yeah, we sold access essentially. this was our brand. the vice president, joe biden, was directly involved. do we walk away from that or do you get answers for that? because nobody outside of washington is gonna view this as a family matter. >> bill: professor, thanks for being on the phone. and in person in quick order. gillian, good to be with you. >> gillian: likewise, bill, appreciate having me as your wing guy today, appreciate it. >> bill: trace gallagher in for martha today. >> thanks. i'm trace gallagher in for martha maccallum. right now, breaking brand new information as you have heard around the transcribed testimony of hunter biden's former long-time associate devin archer answering questions behind closed doors on capitol hill right now about his business dealings with the president's son. republicans are probing for evidence to contradict what president biden has long

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