expect some trans-atlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? never. all the armies of europe, asia and transfer infantry can a combined with all the fresh of their earth in their military chest with a bone apart for a commander could not by force drink from the ohio or make a track on the blue ridge in a trial of a thousand years. if danger ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. it cannot come from abroad. if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be our author and finisher. as a nature of free men we must live through all time or die by suicide. he was just 28 years old when he said this. all things the great emancipator saw the truth, death by suicide was the catastrophe facing the republic then and it is sadly the same today. the enemies of the american way seek to stoke our divisions, schisms and sicknesses in pursuit of their own agenda. they use all the tools at their disposal, money, manipulation, and even open propaganda to weaken our country in every way. those urging us toward national suicide don't just come from within, they are backed from abroad. and no foreign power is a better friend, ally and master of this effort to drive america to suicide than the communist party of china. the ccp is actively engaged in an effort to undermine our way of life. its reach extends into our businesses, our sports, our education and our government. we shouldn't be surprised by this. the communists after all. subversion is what they do and they get bored subject gating their own people. but china is doing this with the active cooperation of our fellow americans. they are partners in this project aren't just monovalent spies dufus congressman. it's other than our own cultural and business elites who they have bought and paid for a thousand times over. our elites operate hand in glove with the communist party of china doing its bidding even when it harms the freedoms and rights of every american. we see it all the time. we see it when american movie stars john siena issue cringing apologies. lebron james nba bend over backwards to avoid offending the chinese communist even when the fans chinese. apple eagerly cooperate with communist to create a internet better designed to suppress human freedom. we see it when american universities tolerate the existence of communist controlled networks to suppress free speech on campus. we see it when amazon.com barack obama press flack jay carney partners with communist enforcers to take down negative reviews of the chinese dictator's books. we see it when the walt disney company and credits to its 2020 live action flop mulan publicly thanked communist chinese security organizations in jing jong a literal genocide of uyghurs. we see it in intel issues a craven apology to the communist party of china for adhering to american sanctions. we see it when top scientists at top universities turn out to have been doing the bidding of the ccp for years, hiding their payoffs in their luggage. we see it when biden administration bureaucrats panic over a map showing taiwan a different color from china and cut the video taiwanese subpoenainger at fraudulent summit for democracy. these aren't abstract matters of national standing or great power. the communist party of china is reaching directly into the fabric of american life. these are the sports you watcher, the products you buy, the companies where you work. the movies you stream and the schools and colleges where your children learn in 2021 one institution willing to stand up to ccp, the women's tennis association. faced with the obvious queue sigh imprisonment of chinese tennis player accused a official of asexual assaulted. the wta body on the planet and suspended chinese operations. lost out on huge revenue and growth opportunities. why? because there was something the communist could not buy from them. decency, dignity and the truth. i ask you don't who will stand against the communist party of china? not our government, not our elites, not our tech firms, not our universities, not our celebrities, not our entrepreneurial genussouses or titans. women's tennis association did. god whether he is them for it but they aren't enough. are you getting it yet? do you see how the nexus between our corrupt elites at home and the communist party of china abroad makes them effectively the same. do you see that fighting one means fighting them both? many consider why does the communist party of china care so much about subverting and ending american freedom? partly playing politics if you are schooled in the politics of the zero sum world, your loss is my gain. something more than that mostly they do it because the communist party of china believes it is locked in a life or death struggle with the united states and unlike us, it acts accordingly. nearly a decade ago, the communist leadership gathered to discuss the world situation and china's place in it the result of this particular meeting was a circular communique on the current state of the ideological sphere better known simply as document number 9. document number 9 had one purpose and one purpose only to let the 90 million members of the communist party of china know who the enemy is. here, according to the ccp's general office are the enemy's weapons. western constitutional democracy. western freedom, democracy and human rights. civil society, individual rights, freedom of the press, the separation of powers, the multiparty system, general election, independent judiciaries and nationalized armies. all these things, according to document number 9, are morality throats communist rule and you know they are right. the principles and institutions under gird america are morality threats to communist rule and to the rule of tyranny everywhere. they have always understood this sometimes better than we have. but this is also a list of threats to something else. it's a list of threats to the rule of our own elites. our own corrupt titans, our own complacent political class. are you awake? do you see how the threat at home and the threat abroad are one in the same? common enemies make common cause and they depend on our divisions to rule. prescriptions at the end of document number 9 call for more fanatical control by the party over life and discourse but then there is this: we, in the communist party of china, must reinforce our management of all types and levels of propaganda on the cultural front. perfect and carry out administrative systems and allow absolutely no opportunity or outlets for incorrect thinking or viewpoints to spread. what we know now that we didn't quite grasp in 2013 when document number 9 was issued, is that this wasn't just an imperative within china. the ccp intended then and now to control incorrect thinking or viewpoints as it defines them in america still and shameful as it is, they found plenty of american partners who feel exactly the same way. this is the biggest threat facing america today not russia, not islamic terrorism not even the very real threats on our southern border. this external threat is existential because it is amplified by its alliance with the major internal threat facing america. the maligned union of leftist authoritarian elites who seek to corrode this country from within. there are some, even some conservatives, who believe the internal threats we face are so great we cannot hope to win this fight. they argue we must focus on ourselves that our elites in leadership are too incompetent to contend with communist china. i get it. i have been sounding the alarm on feckless and military elites for years. the truth they fail to understand is that in the case of communist china, the internal and external threat are one and the same. the fight against our corrupt surrender minded elites in academia, in government, in business, in sports, in media and beyond, is insphrable from the fight against a communist chinese la via on this that funds, directs and encourages them. the monolithic union of american and communist chinese interest and money that has dominated our national life for the past generation must end. american firms that cooperate with communist chinese repression must suffer penalties including criminal once if need be. american firms that outsource supply chains in manufacturing to communist china must move to friendly countries or better yet bring them back home. american sports and film stars who kowtow to communist demands should suffer public shame. american universities must cease all cooperation with communist controlled institutions, have zero tolerance for communist controlled networks and informers on their campuses and ideally not educating prc citizens at all. american government bureaucracies should be compelled to stop funding and cooperating with communist bureaucracies and institutions. the wuhan institute of virology sounds like a good place to start. do these things or even threaten them, and the cry goes up from the elites you will hurt american jobs and prosperity if you cut off communist china. this is the suicide note linden denounced. we should not have to sen the dominance of communist china as the price tag for our american way of life. it is also a lie. the united states virtually no trade from mainland china 1949 9 clear through into the 1990s and managed to conduct the world's highest standard of living without them. so, let's do it again. for all that we have been and meant, we cannot look away from this fight. the enemy is here now. he commands the heights of hollywood, silicon valley and wall street. is he poisoning our people and body and mind. he may put jeff bezos over his knee to demand five star reviews but he does not command us. we are americans, we are wide awake. and we are ready to fight for our schools, for our governance, for our culture, the future does not belong to you and neither do we. our minds are free and they are not for sale. >> ben: joining me now rebecca heinrich senior fellow he had hudson institutes and gordon chang coming collapse of china. rebecca, first to you, the one of the things we have learned the last two years we all knew about the threats china posed to us potentially militarily and potentially economically not as many people were aware of the amount of cultural power they had over the discussions and communications and education process that was happening here in america. tell us a little bit about what that has meant and what you know about it. >> well, i want to congratulate you, first, ben for that incredible monologue. i hope every american goes back and listens to it again and again and shares it with their children every word of it is true. cultural icons like lebron james and the nba who have been willing to beat up on the problems they see with iniquities in the united states but then not willing to say anything about the crimes going on, the violations of natural rice, the persecution of christians, the muslims of jing jiang and oppression of people silencing and disappearing doctors and reporters going on inside of china all eager for that chinese market. we have also seen coke, one of the sponsors of the winter limp olympics, senator tom cotton grilled him this past summer trying to get him to admit of the atrocities going on in china and he wouldn't do it. so we have all of these corporate leaders, these sports icons looking the other way, academics, leaders of labs in the united states, all wanting the students from china to be here and all that money to be here and they are not willing to admit that what they do here, what those chinese nationalists do here in the united states, what they learn they turn around and invest it into their own economies, their own military technologies and they use it against the united states. >> ben: gordon, i know that you're someone who has been sounding the alarm on this for a long time. a lot of people feel like it's impossible to overcome. this just a reality we have to accept. is that the case? >> no. by no means, ben. really what we are talking about is a society far stronger than china's. the problem is we can lose our country because of what you said. and clearly china exploits every point of contact with the united states. so i do believe that the american people, they have the common sense. they demand freedom. they want to live free. and we are going to take back our country from these elites. we have got to eliminate these points of contact from china because they are overwhelming us. and, as you say, they corrupted our elites. this is job one. it's job one in november. it's job one every november, we have to take back our country because china views the united states, its mere existence as existential threat as you say because they are worried about the inspirational impact of our country, our values on the chinese people. >> ben: one of the elements of this that i think our people are only beginning to wake up to is how much china actually reaches down into our conversations within the academic world, even lower than our colleges and universities. that's a story that, you know, members of congress have raised but in terms of the prevalence and the reason that they have when it comes to much younger children and their educational process through technology and the like, what concerns you on that, on that front? >> dom, you think about the very popular app., tiktok, it's a chinese app. there has been great reporting in the "wall street journal" about how this app. and the algorithms are preying on young teenage girls and correlation with the surge in mental problems and challenges of teenage girls in the united states related back to these algorithms in tiktok. you wonder what is china doing? what are these nefarious things reach into the minds and hearts of american homes and teenagers close down and shut down that app. if the u.s. government isn't going to protect your children, you have got to do it. to gordon's point, this idea that china is simply too big to fail like a nuclear, you know, equipped enron of this giant corporation with nuclear weapons, essentially, and there's nothing that the united states can do to disentangle itself from it is simply not true. we need to have an agenda like you said, ben, we have to handle this internal domestic problem in the united states and the external threat, really entangled. we have to have a norman rockwell agenda here at home that strengthens the american family and a rockwell b-1 bomber agenda abroad that shows americans' military strength and we need to deter military aggression from the chinese communist party against asia because as soon as they have asian hedge money they can spread it throughout the region. >> gordon and rebecca, thank you so much for joining me tonight. >> coming up, the media finds out that the cdc's guidelines were never about the science and their brains melted down. we will break it down next with douglas murray. ♪ i'm so glad we're finally on vacation. yeah, and kayak made it so easy - searching hundreds of travel sites to find us a great flight. my ears still won't pop after the flight but i don't even care.... what? kayak. search one and done. what? before discovering nexium 24hr to treat her frequent heartburn... kayak. search one and done. claire could only imagine enjoying chocolate cake. now, she can have her cake and eat it too. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn? moving is a handful. no kidding! fortunately, xfinity makes moving easy. easy? -easy? switch your xfinity services to your new address online in about a minute. that was easy. i know, right? and even save with special offers just for movers. really? yep! so while you handle that, you can keep your internet and all those shows you love, and save money while you're at it with special offers just for movers at xfinity.com/moving. ♪ >> ben: for almost two years now members of the mainstream media have made covid virtue signaling a big part of their personal identity. >> brandy, i am just floored. i have not seen one mask other than the two that you are wearing right now and good for you, every single person behind you in all of the video that we have seen there has not been one mask. >> i am among the fully vaccinated joined team pfizer and i did go jogging today in the park and i did -- this was the mask that i wore with a doctor's mask under it i mean, i'm a fauci groupy. i'm a thrice vaccinated. i buy k 95 masks case load pocket. i wear them everywhere except when i sit down. >> the problem is you have all these rules so when they change, it tends to make you angry. we saw that firsthand this week when the cdc shortened the quarantine period for those who test positive for the virus from 10 days to five. now, most of us were happy about that news. it's a sign we can get back to normal faster. but the far left covid enthusiasts they weren't taking it that well. >> what many americans are feeling right now confused and even a little doubtful and weary after the cdc dramatically shortened it's recommended isolation period for the covid positive just as omicron is exploding. >> people are not comfortable with uncertainty. i'm not and i'm sure most people aren't in this situation. but we're going to have to get used to it. >> is it because of the scale of the spread a decision about keeping businesses open? is it a medical decision? is it a political decision? >> so, from what you are saying it sounds like this decision had just as much to do with business as it did with the science. >> ben: here's a thought. what if none of this has ever been about the science. maybe it's always been about politics and control. joining me now to react douglas murray, author of the madness of crowds. dowling also a, it seems to me that there was this surprisingly negative reaction from so many people who bought in to every rule that they were supposed to follow what should be received as welcome news. >> that's right, by the way, what i a great set of clips that was. i loved that boast of the hoarding of masks i buy dozens of masks, boxes of masks, everywhere. and as for that just now this thing of is it about science or business as if it's one or the other. zero sum game. you have either got to listen to science or destroy business. you can't do both much these things. this demonstrates a madness going on in america and around the world about this. you are absolutely right, ben. there are people who are seriously disappointed at the cdc's new guidance. any normal, rational, reasonable person should be delighted that the cdc has said that the quarantine period has gone down from 10 days to five. it is absolutely in line with what we know about the omicron variant, which is that it is the weakest and least significant variant of this so far with the least number of hospitalizations, the least number of deaths connected to it. if omicron isn't the moment which can you start to cut quarantine it's hard to know when that would be. you see, a lot of these people that you just cited, they don't want to ever go back to normal. they don't want to return to the precovid world. they love the covid world. it allows them to control everything and everyone. and to focus on this one issue to the destruction of everything else, including the economy. >> ben: to that point, dr. fauci was asked to address just this question just the other day. >> there is a danger that there will be so many people who are being isolated, who are asymptomatic for the full 10 days that you could have a major negative impact on our ability to keep society running. so the decision was made -- although it's not completely risk-free -- of saying let's get that cut in half. >> ben: you know, it just seems to me like this is the scenario where he is admitting that there is a balance here, that people have to find that balance. >> right. >> ben: something that we should have been acknowledging all along. >> you know, there are so many people in this whole the last two years who really have so many questions that they are going to have to be responsible for answering at some point in the years ahead. it's not just the issue of dr. fauci just listed. there is a former clinton adviser on social media talking about what are they talking about limiting this. children are going to have to be going back to school and then everyone is going to be killed again. and, you know, just think about this. this lack of ability to weigh up and balance reasonably issues to do with the virus and the threat and, for instance, the education of young people in america, children in america. why is it only now that we're having this discussion of the reasonable balance. the balance of the virus and business. people are saying that the head of delta and other businesses have been calling for this reduction of quarantine from 10 days to five days are putting business first. well, sure, business has to be a priority in america. the education of young people has to be a priority in america. the omicron variant cannot be the single priority, it never should have been, and the fact that we have only just got here now is an absolute disgrace. >> ben: you can't use this pandemic as a permanent warm blanket. douglas murray, thank you so much for taking the time to join me tonight. coming up, drive by shootings, no big deal. just ask two democrats in the state of washington who want to reduce the penalty for gunning someone down in the street. that's up next. ♪ real cowboys get customized car insurance with liberty mutual, so we only pay for what we need. -hey tex, -wooo. can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ (upbeat music) - [narrator] this is kate. she always wanted her 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(crowd cheering) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. at walmart, target and other fine stores. >> ben: a fox news alert ghislaine maxwell has been found guilty of five out of the six charges of sex trafficking. fox news correspondent matt finn is here with the latest. >> maxwell now faces up to 65 years in prison. a manhattan jury found a long time partner of jeffrey epstein guilty of five of six counts of trafficking teens to be abused by the late epstein. one charge enticement of an individual under the age of 17 to travel with intent to engage in illegal essexial activity. during two weeks of graphic testimony multiple witnesses testified as teenage girls maxwell introduced them to convicted pedophile epstein who then sexually assaulted them. one of the women trafficked by epstein tweet add short while ago, quote my soul yearned for justice for years today the jury gave me just that. i will remember this day always. having lived with the horrors of maxwell's abuse my heart goes out to the many other girls and young women who suffered at her hands and whose lives she destroyed. i hope that today is not the end but rather another step of justice being served. maxwell did not act alone. others must be held accountable. i have faith that they will be. maxwell hanged himself manhattan jail cell at the age of 66 while awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges. back to you. >> ben: the left's infatuation with lawlessness continues to wreak havoc of america's violent cities. run free and countless headlines. democratic lawmakers are hoping to give lighter sentences to drive by shooters all in the name of racial equity. jason rantz. jason, tell us a little bit about what's going on here. >> it's rather absurd bill. right now under current law, a drive by murder, if charged with first degree could be considered aggravating incident, which would mandate a sentence of life in prison without parole. if you are just getting charged for first degree murder, it's not mandated. usually you are serving between 20 and 30 years. what they are trying to do terra simmons one of the state lawmakers herself a felon who ended up on the state legislature and david hathy another state both democrats getting rid of ago vaghts factor. drive by murderers being likely to get 20 or 30 years all about racial equity. no data to back up nothing to do with racial equities at this time. simmons claims this has been used to go after young black men. that's just not true. in fact, incredibly rare to see this as an aggravated first degree charge. and by the way she acknowledges that. she claims it's only been used once. i don't know if that's actually true. she has not given us any data as to the source of that. let's assume it is true. the used once not very clearly to go after anybody other than that one individual. by the way this bill retroactive. the one person that they do cite as having been charged with this particular law would end up going free. dom. >> ben: doing to fight racism. they can't show you the evidence of the racism or being misused in any way but they still want to take the stand in favor of racial equity by taking this step. this seems absolutely absurd, jason, especially after a year in which we have seen significant crime spikes in cities across america. >> yeah. and seattle is one of them. ironically david hackney who, again, is one of the lawmakers behind this proposal, his district is seeing a surge of this exact kind of violence. we are seeing drive by shootings in south seattle of all the areas in washington state. this is the one that tends to see a lot of this. of course, a lot of the victims are black. if you want to tell me that you care about racial injustice, how about you actually protect the community that you pretend to care about? this is nothing to do with racial equity. it's also more than just a virtue signal. i believe this is just part of the democrats' position in reimagining public safety or dismantling systems of oppression. they believe that the criminal justice system is a system of oppression. so they are trying to get rid of as much of the system as they can because they believe, due to their ideology that they could come up with a better one except it's just nonsense and it's making our lives more dangerous. in particular, it's impacting the black community. >> ben: they are the music makers, they're the dreamers of dreams. thank you for filling us in on this. park and recs sucks. j.k. rowling is a transphobe. the stupid. pop culture now out of favor with the young politically radicalized left. you take an assessment, enter your goals, the foods you love and ww builds a plan just for you. i lost 26 pounds and i feel incredible. oprah: no two people are alike so no two plans are alike. with ww, i lost 30 pounds. this new program changed my life. live the life you love. lose the weight you want. the all new ww personalpoints program. start the new year with three months free. join today at ww.com. hurry, offer ends january 3rd. this is elodia. she's a recording artist. join today at ww.com. 1 of 10 million people that comcast has connected to affordable internet in the last 10 years. and this is emmanuel, a future recording artist, and one of the millions of students we're connecting throughout the next 10. through projectup, comcast is committing $1 billion so millions more students, past... and present, can continue to get the tools they need to build a future of unlimited possibilities. when you're born and raised in san francisco, you grow up wanting to make a difference. that's why, at recology, we're proud to be 100% employee owned with local workers as diverse as san francisco. we built the city's recycling system from the ground up, helping to make san francisco the greenest big city in america but we couldn't do it without you. thank you, san francisco. gracias, san francisco. -thank you. -[ speaks native language ] let's keep making a difference together. ♪ >> ben: nbc parks and rec used to be a pop culture darling 2010 loved by liberals warm embrace of ghosts of ghosts of administrations past. >> you must be leslie. welcome. [laughter] >> you are -- my name just came out of your mouth. >> it did. >> this isn't happening. this isn't real. >> no, it's happening. i'm delighted to have you here. >> ben: oh my how things have changed both for joe biden and the show that loved him. now the old guards of neoliberalism are sadly out of favor with far left zoomers and young millennials, oh, you like hillary clinton how cringe? now parks and rec and other pop culture phenomenons from the last decade being trashed by new breed of younger more progressive cynics according to vioxx. parks and recreation overrated and tunnel portrait of obama eesh liberalism. iconic and beloved harry potter neoliberal fantasy of transphobe most traumatic is the rapid fall of hamilton and its creator and star miranda whose reputation of embarrassing ennestness. when it comes to pop culture either die a liberal hero or become old enough embarrassing old villain. joining me is editor and chief of the post millennial to discuss. libby, it strikes me that all of these people have done something particularly wrong but i think we could see pretty early on that lynn manuel was going to hit pretty hard for having the you a cass city to outlive the american founding. what are your thoughts on this trend? >> i think hamilton is legitimately the best american musical that has ever been staged in the history of our great musical tradition. it's a spectacular show. it brings the founding of america to all of us. it shows us that the face of america's founders are literally every one of us. anyone can be george washington. anybody can take that risk. anyone can step out and proclaim that they are going to be independent and seek freedom and liberty and i love the show. i think that what they are doing to manuel miranda is absurd. he loved the book. he wrote about hamilton. there is a lot in the show, too, about an abolition, there is john lawrence is in there talking about how he is going to sally a that stallian with the first back battalion and it's spectacular. it's a great show. it's absurd what they are doing to it. almost like they hate the country or something. >> ben: you know, libby, the thing that i was thinking about as i was reading this take was you do realize that whatever culture you are enjoying right now, if you are one of these progressive cynics, it will be judged 10 years from now or even sooner by someone even more cynical or even more progressive than you. you haven't addressed yet how many things are wrong with the marvel cinematic universe. you haven't even started to get into the levels of cringe here. so, i guess my question to you on that is do you think there is any reversing this trend? is there a point where people tune out critics and cynics and say look we are going to enjoy good art as it is. we are going to be entertained by it. good musical in the case of hamilton and not going to listen to you anymore? >> yeah. i think that's all of us all the time. the hate that's thrown at j.k. rowling is literally because she stands up for women. the hate that's thrown at harry potter now is because people don't like when someone goes around standing up for women. i don't think that we have to listen to any of these cynics and i think it's also really telling that the hate for hamilton didn't start until it left the realm of broadway and became something that all of us could enjoy and take part in once it was elitist entertainment anymore they had no time for it. >> ben: once it wasn't being performed for people who just voted for obama and started to be performed for people who might have voted for someone else in 2016, it became very problematic in the lessons that they would take away from it. libby, thank you so much for joining me tonight. >> thanks so much, ben. >> ben: up next honoring john madden, the man who helped turn the nfl into the phenomenon it is today. we will celebrate his life and legacy with another joe namath coming up next. ♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list event. finally. our honeymoon. it took awhile, but at least we got a great deal on our hotel with kayak. i was afraid we wouldn't go.. with our divorce and.... great divorce guys. yeah... search 100s of travel sites at once. kayak. search one and done. 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[echoing] get a quote today. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ >> they have no idea who we are or who we are throwing it to. >> you cut it right down here. >> some people say they run and collide. that's what i say. >> boom. >> that was the legendary impact madden on the world of sports from his super bowl winning 10 tour as the head-to-head of the oakland raiders and he called games for all 4 major networks and had a popular video game series. madden was the face of football for generations of fans. he won over 100 games and never had a losing season. his influence on the game stretches much further than the 50 yard. madden became famous for his over top x's and o's breaking the game down for viewers at home and cracking a few jokes when the games became blow outs. >> since the last game, they had a baby bucket. >> what made madden great was he believed in the viewer. he believed they were just as interested in learning about the 4-3 defense as they would be learning about madden cruiser. he was the ultimate football guy and is sorely missed. here's legendary new york jets quarterback joe namath. what did madden mean for the game? >> you covered a lot of good things of course. from my perspective. i knew john. i knew several of the guys he coached. we crossed over. there i played with the jet against the raiders when john was there. and kenny is a buddy and he would tell me stories about john. guys that played under john. loved him. he was a straight shooter. he was down-to-earth and did not holdback on things. he treated people the way he wanted people to be treated with respect. we are talking about the way he conveyed football knowledge to the millions of fans. it was beautiful. we lost one of a kind. my condolences go out to his family. it was a time when john started the all madden team. we were sitting in a dressing room. i was sitting right yesterday a guy that was so special as well. walter payton. i was so thankful and fortunate to be there. john made us feel so good and we admired him a great deal. >> it strikes me just as you were critical as a part of this in the early days, john madden was essential to the nfl becoming the dominant sport and has a day devoted to it. it's amazing to think about how much of an impact he had on making these games america's game at the center of of our lives. in terms of anything like him, do you think we will ever see anyone have that kind of impact to go from the coaching experience to the popularizer of the game to someone who democratize itself or was he one of a kind that can never be repeated? >> i think he was one of a kind no doubt about it. as far as someone else stepping up and winning the hearts and admiration and the respect of people out there that admire the football sport, i hope someone else comes along like that. also you mentioned the nfl. but john in the afl, to start out with, you see. things were not always polite and cozy between the two leagues. >> to say the least. >> you said a nice happy merger. al davis refused to go to the meeting. >> [audio breaking up]. he was terrific. what [inaudible]. a new yorker to start with. >> i grew up listening to john madden and thinking of him as being the definition of a broadcaster. someone that could entertain even when the game was not entertaining. is there some aspect of his call or one call in particular a game he called that sticks out in your mind being an example of something you will never forget he said on the air? >> i heard the things you said about john before i came on. i got tickled of course. he was a smart man. very intelligent man, but he knew how to convey his feelings to the people that he respected. he respected people. he wanted them to enjoy what he was saying as well as teach them about the game. we saw him with the telestraighter. he would laugh and we laughed with him. we never laughed at him. he was sharp and he was teaching us football. millions upon millions of people today said that. >> thank you so much, joe, for joining me tonight. i thank you all for watching fox news primetime this evening. download my podcast. i will be back here tomorrow. will cain filling in for tucker. >> ♪ ♪ >> welcome to "tucker carlson tonight." i am will cain in for tucker. we have breaking news tonight. a verdict has been reached in the trial of ghislaine maxwell. maxwell was found guilty on 5 count for her role in the sex trafficking minors for her lover jeffrey epstein.

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