Have arranged getting killed so that his son could get a 10 Million Insurance Policy. Sounds bizarre. A lot of doubts. But for now the focus in this hamilton county, south Carolina Courtroom is just to get an arraignment on the committing insurance Fraud Charge. Then it could expand from there. Lets get the latest from Steve Harrigan in Hampton County with more. Steve . Were keeping an eye on the first Court Appearance of Alex Murdaugh who stands in front of insurance Fraud Charges. He hired a former client to shoot him in the head by the side of a rural road in South Carolina. The alleged gunman, Curtis Smith was released on 55,000 bond. Murdaugh surrendered himself to police. He arrived in a tshirt and fluorescent sneakers. His hands were cuffed. Murdaugh gained notoriety when his Wife And Son were brutal religioned down this summer outside the familys large Hunting Lodge in rural South Carolina. It was murdaugh that discovered the bodies, murdaugh that called 911. Still no publicly known suspects in that double homicide here. Now police are talking about a new investigation that has begun into the Murdaugh Family housekeeper. Gloria satterfield. She died in the Murdaugh House in 2018. The 57yearold died from a trip and fall. The coroner said there was no autopsy. So a new investigation there. When you look at the web of the Murdaugh Family at this point alone, were looking at six separate criminal investigations, five people dead including two family members. Back to you, neil. Neil we should point out, steve, hes charged with stealing millions from his company, right . And thats a separate issue. Lets go to the courtroom. Tuesday, september 16, 2021. The time is 4 02 p. M. Were here for a Bond Hearing for richard alexander murdaugh. We have representation from the attorney Generals Office. State your name. Yes. Im Craig Waters with the South Carolina attorney Generals Office. Thank you. Also i see the defendant has representation. State your name for the report. May i remove my mask . State your name. Put it back on after that. Yes, maam. We represent mr. Murdaugh. Thank you. All right. The case before us today, mr. Murdaugh is Case Number 2021 a2510100204. Insurance Misrepresentation And Case 2021a2510100206, kch conspiracy. Also filing a false Police Report. Im going to read this information. Follow along with me as i read it. You have the right to a trial. If you fail to attend will result in additional criminal charges. [inaudible] you also have a right to a preliminary hearing. You have ten days to do so. You can do that orally in writing. You also have the right to a trial by jury. Once again, youre being charged with false statements, first offense. Conspiracy and filing of false Police Report of a felony violation. You also have the right to counsel. The right to a courtappointed counsel if financially unable to appoint counsel. If youre interested in a courtappointed attorney, i see you have an attorney with you now. We dont have to go over that. You can if you want to get one appointed through the clerk of court office. Number 7, the charges have been brought against you as charged, if youre found not guilty, you may have your record expunged. You have to notify the course if theres any change of address. This is a notice for right to preliminary hearing. If youre interested in a preliminary hearing, you must fill this out and have it back to our office. The next page. Information regarding your rights. Listen carefully. Youre in charge with a criminal offense. If youre found guilty, you may lose your Drivers License and a possibility of a jail sentence. You have a constitutional right to have a representation by an attorney who may waive his rights if theyre not protected. You have a right to hire an attorney to represent you in every case. If you cant afford one, you may be available for a free attorney. To qualify for a free lawyers you may waive your right to have an attorney at a trial. You also have the right to represent yourself. However, selfrepresentation can be dangerous. For example, theres certain facts that youre charged with that youre not aware of our legal issues that determine how to preserve an appeal. If you go without a lawyer, you have to follow procedure rules. [inaudible] it is your obligation to keep up with your Trial Date and obtain an attorney by hiring one prior to your Trial Date. If you do not appeal to a trial with a attorney, you may waive a right to have an attorney represent you. Youre required to keep the court notified of change of address. In the event youre unable to appoint counse [inaudible] once again, you do have the right to be present at trial. If youre not there, well proceed in your absence. You may appeal for Roll Call october 25, 2021 at 2 00 p. M. I acknowledge that im saying the Roster Meeting and its my Responsibility And Condition of my bond that i hired an attorney within 15 days of this order. Shall i fail to appear for Roll Call [inaudible] before i set mr. Murdocks bond, anything you would like to say . Yes, your honor. Theres a few conditions we would ask for for the defense would probably not object to. The first one of those is surrendering the passport. The second thing is as we would like for a Bond Requirement to be sign a weigher of extradition. Its my understanding that they tend that they plan for mr. Murdaugh to be turned to a rehab out of state and for that we would request that waiver of extradition. Finally a few matters that we would disagree on, your honor. At this time we would request 100,000 surty as well as gps. The reason for that he has no prior record. Of all the charges here under the law are not violent, the underlying facts are violent. They include an intent to harm Ones Self and that enhances the danger to the community in that regard. They also involve conspiracy and that means working with others for criminal activities. That enhances the danger to the community. Also since hes going out of state, that raises the concern of a flight risk. He will be going to a rehab in a different state and he has the resources to pay for these rehabs out of state. For that reason a gps would be appropriate, your honor. Again, if after 30 to 60 days, if hes not found on gps, im sure i can speak with his attorney, but in this instance, its appropriate that we have that gps. Ive seen these type of cases before and sometimes those that had everything and are suffering a possible Fault Embrace are more of a concern than a hardened criminal is in the sayings before. For that reason we would ask for that bond. May i remove my mask . Yes. Speak clearly enough with a mask on. Your honor, Alex Murdaugh spent his entire life in this country. No prior record. Actually involved in all aspects of this community. Up until a discharge had no blemish on his character whatsoever. He has and we would has had a significant Opioid Addiction, which has led him in to some financial issues and theres no question to this situation where he finds himself charged. Let me make a couple points first of all. This crime involved his attempt to have himself shot so his son could collect insurance money. The only violence hes been involved in is this, which was to have himself executed. So hes not a danger to the community. The only person hes a danger to is himself. He immediately surrendered and went to rehab after this incident as soon as he got out of the hospital, shot in the back of the head, a bullet. Didnt penetrate his skull. He made have had a minor Skull Infrastructure and some minor bleeding on the brain. As soon as released, he went to detox. He was there for almost a week before he was ready to go to rehab. Unfortunately the place he was at did not have a bed. So we had to find him another be bed. In terms of financial resources, this is being paid for by insurance, not out of his pocket. I can tell you as a result of the recent events, hes not a man of significant means anymore. Everything he owns is liened up. We would surrender his passport. I brought it here today. Your honor, id like to hand up to the court a letter i dont want to publish it or the location of the Rehabilitation Facility for obvious reasons. We have tremendous Media Interest in this. Certainly dont want them showing up. I think that explains the doctor believes he can benefit from this. He only let him come up this morning, he needs to go back this afternoon to not get kicked out of the facility. 171510, which is the statute governing bonds, hes entitled to his personal recognizance bond. He came here today on his own. Hes willing to waive extradition to come back whenever needed here. And again, everything, every member of his family, his connections are to this country. He has nowhere to go. Were giving the passport. He doesnt have the financial means to live the country nor a passport to leave the country. Hes had a tremendous Opioid Addiction. The death of his Wife And Son have put him over the edge. Thats why one of the major reasons he was considering having himself killed. The other thing i would say is this. Theres no evidence of danger to the Community Or Evidence that he would flee the jurisdiction to avoid prosecution. In the way these charges came about is, mr. Griffin and i visit him at the Detox Facility on monday. He indicated that he wanted to tell the truth. I think they were affirm that they were expected to show him a lineup, investigating a driveby shooting when he decided he should call. We asked him to report the conversation which he detailed every element with what he was charged today, total cooperation, gave them the name, told them about the gun, the knife and we believe it was totally honest and forthright with them. So he himself has put himself in this by what he did to begin with and adidnting to make amends by being truthful. He wants to cooperate with Law Enforcement. Hes cooperated to the extent given his current mental and physical condition when he gets out of rehab. Were more than willing to have the facility require to notify us and or you if he leaves the facility, we can do that so if hes not there and hasnt gotten Court Permission to leave there, he would be in violation of the bond order. Your honor, as mr. Waters indicated, he has fallen from grace. Its been a tremendous before any of that falling happened, his Wife And Son were brutally murdered. That has had an extraordinary effect on him. So we would ask you to allow him to go and help heal himself. A Surety Bond is not needed in this case. For a practical matter, his financial condition is bad. We asked him out on his own and allow him to go to rehab, allow an mandate rehab facility, notify the court and or swet when he complete his treatment there, notify us so we can coordinate with attorney Generals Office where to go next. Come back here or should go somewhere else. This is a 20year addiction. This is something that hes struggling with every day. If anyone wants to see the face of what Opioid Addiction does, youre looking at it. This is a horrible disease. So your honor, ill be happy to answer any questions if you have any questions. Thank you, your honor. After hearing both sides, i dont feel that mr. Murdaugh is at a risk to the community. I do however do want him to surrender his passport. So that being said, the insurance, the false statements, im going to set his bond at 10,000. That will be a personal recognizance bond. On the conspiracy, im going to set it at 5,000 personal recognizance bond. Report filing a false Police Report 5,000 personal recognizance bond. The total bond is 20,000 personal recognizance bond. If he does leave the facility without any permission, your bond will be revoked and there will be a Bench Warrant for your arrest. You understand that . Yes. That will be the order of the court. Your honor, at this point, im handed the passport in for the report. Your honor, so that letter does not become public information, can we have it back . Otherwise we ask you to seal it. Thank you, your honor. Do you have in questions before you go . No, maam. Neil all right. There you have it. Alex murdaugh, a prominent South Carolina lawyer. So youre only seeing him from the back. In South Carolina, hes well known. Comes from a legal family. More than 80 years in South Carolina. This Bond Today set at 20,000 was for Insurance Fraud and charges that he was staging his own fascination, if you will, bark in September 4 when he hired a former client to shoot him so that his surviving son could get 10 Million in insurance. You might recall that back in june his other Son And Wife were killed at the familys home. That has nothing to do with what was brought up here. Mysteries around that killing as well as now were understanding the death of a Housekeeper Back in 2018. Now, these fraud and other related charges are only linked to this incident in which he hired a fellow to shoot him, presumably to kill him and make sure his son could get the 10 Million Insurance Policy. But a lot of things are not adding up in this including these incidents in the past that are still not resolved including killing of his wife and other son earlier this year. Steve harrigan, theres a lot to unpack here, isnt there . Neil, a lot of dead people around the Murdaugh Family. At least five at the latest count so far. Really what a tremendous turn around it is to see Alec Murdaugh there in a brown Prison Jump Suit making his first Court Appearance. This was a family that were the chief prosecutors in South Carolina. Now its flipped and Alec Murdaugh arriving today with his hands cuffed before him. He will be free on 20,000 bail. This is just the beginning, this is a Fraud Charge for insurance and filing a false Police Report. You mentioned that he was kicked out of his Family Law Firm for stealing. Now the police are reinvestigating the death of a housekeeper in the house in 2018. Murdaugh said it was a trip and fall. Police are not so sure. Theyre going back to that and deaths of two other young people tied to the family. The biggest question, what role did he have in the death of his Wife And Son. He found the bodies, called 911, a year of turmoil for murdaugh. And the legal process just starting now. Neil . Neil thanks very much for that, steve. Want to go to mark eiglarsh, a criminal defense attorney. Theres a lot to this case. Obviously it doesnt end with the fraud, Insurance Fraud. Where does this go . Today was just the beginning, a huge victory for the defense. Had the judge ruled in the prosecutors favor, he would have had to posted a Surety Bond and come up with at least 10 of the 100,000 bond that the state was requesting. The defense got a huge victory in that he could guarantee he will pay the 20,000 bond if he takes off and flees. He didnt have to pay anything. Huge victory. Where it goes from here, this is just the beginning. Every time the state adds additional charges which they will, at a minimum, stealing from his own Law Firm, wins you have those charges, he will be brought back in front of the court and now hes more a risk of flight. Youre facing additional time. You have more of a reason to take off and the Bond Amount will go up. Neil the death to the housekeeper serves me right, it was considered a trip and fall. She fell, tripped over the familys dogs. Fell down the stairs and died in a hospital. There was a separate settlement with her family, her grown sons. They never got payment. Its a whole other Side Mystery to this. Theres a whole other investigation. Notice prosecutors didnt bring that up today. Theyre going to at some point. The defense would have said, theres no charges. There very well may be. Allegedly the injuries on the housekeeper are inconsistent with natural causes, which apparently is what they said how she passed. Also, her two children were supposed to receive 475,000. Who was their lawyer . Alex, the defendant, who failed to give them a nickel even though the case was settled quite some time ago. He has some explaining to do on that one as well. Neil im wondering, too, you know, when his wife and other son were killed, they its a cold case. Couldnt get any leads on it. Talked to former cases that he had, anyone wish the family ill or certainly in selfill. Have we learned anything about that in connection with cases that he tried . Unfortunately we dont know enough about that case. He gave the case up. He opened up to Law Enforcement and told them that they needed everything that they needed to know. He fully cooperated. My guess is he wont be as forthcoming about any information that he has, which may show his alleged involvement in some way to his own Familys Demise assuming that that is the case. Neil The One thing that doesnt Add Up, mark, this incident in which he was planning Curtis Smith, a former client, to shoot him. So that his son could get the money. Then he later was saying that this had nothing to do with what was originally thought to be a link to the death of his Wife And Son. What is odd about that is it was originally deemed to be a miraculous incident, which he survived because in the end, he wasnt killed. He had minor wounds to the outside of his skull. More than survived it, which makes you worry and wonder about the premise of this in the first place that he had hired someone to kill him. Yeah, no, that is the biggest issue to me. When i read this, im thinking, okay, hes guilty. Hes guilty of hiring the worst assassin ever. He wants to be killed and couldnt get killed. That was bizarre. Somebody needs to answer some questions about that. How does he survive his own hit . How do you miss. Neil let me switch gears here. Just getting this in. Were just learning now from the u. S. Special Counsel Durham has secured an indictment against an attorney that represented Hillary Clintons 2016 president ial campaign. Michael sussman might have lied to the fbi about that meeting. What are we to make of that . This Durham Thing has been waiting to get a read on where this case that was just up to its fiveyear max limit. What are you to make of that . Well, the first thing as i tell my clients in the past 30 years, dont lie to the feds. At a minimum that will get you on that. If thats what were hearing is coming down the pipes and theyll have to prove that the statements were false and it was material and done knowingly an intelligently and voluntarily, that could land somebody in federal prison. Neil now, the extent of this goes back to whether people were deliberately misrepresenting connections and spying on the Trump Campaign at the time. Could this be a hint that its wider than that . Of course. Any time you have somebody arrested, especially in the federal arena, there are a lot of cheese going around, a lot of cheese being offered. A lot of people look at what theyre facing. They want to take the cheese. They want to take whatever opportunity that they have to work off their own time. So the first thing that agents want to know and federal prosecutors want to know how can you help them. Many times people say look, ill do the time. Oftentimes they give up everyone they know that can assist in helping them with their own case by saying what they did wrong. So yeah, some people have some concerns tonight. Neil all right. Well watch it closely. Sorry to throw that at you unprepared here. You handled it well. A jury now indicting sussman on this incident and he lied to the fbi. Now back to this Alec Murdaugh Bizarre Case that seems to expand with more questions than it does answers. I want to go to ted williams, a former d. C. Homicide detective. So much doesnt Add Up about the case even to the parent paying this individual to shoot and presumably kill murdaugh. It was one of the more botched Assassination Attempts because he easily survived. I dont know how close he was when he pulled the trigger. But didnt work out that way. This on top of the question still unresolved over his Wife And Sons death and the Housekeepers Death and other principals having connection to him some years back, legal cases more to the point. What do you make of it all . Well, theres No Doubt about it, this is a made for television movie. Its a very tragic movie that were watching, neil, In Real Time here. Before the mystery started with me last saturday when it was reported that Alex Murdaugh was alongside the road and a person he talked to had made a turn in the Road And Shot him and left him. Now, there is a great deal of mystery here. Look, you want to die for 10 Million that you want to give in an Insurance Policy to your son. Look, a killer normally is not just going to graze you. Hes going to shoot you numerous times. Theres something very smelly here. Its my understanding that the alleged shooter has confessed to the shooting. But theres a lot of smelly stuff going on here. As you say, june 7, he comes home and finds his son, paul, and his wife, maggie, dead. He records this. What we learned here, paul found dead earlier in 2015 had been involved in a Motor Boat Death of a woman by the name of mallory beech. Paul was going to go on trial. So just before he went on trial, he was killed. Individuals thought that maybe someone in mallory Beechs Orbit had killed paul. That may still be a possibility. But what is needs to be found out here and i dont know the answer is was there an Insurance Policy on maggie and was there an Insurance Policy on paul. Who was the beneficiary of that Insurance Policy or did the investigators do a complete investigation when they got to that scene and my rationale behind that is because Alec Murdaugh comes from a very, very powerful South Carolina family. Even today when he was going in to turn himself in, he had a police escort. That tells me that there is a lot of moving parts in this case that we dont know at this stage. We do know that maggie and paul, when they were shot, they were shot multiple times with two weapons. We know one was a shotgun and one was a rifle. Its possible, just possible, that there were more than one individuals that shot those two people. All of that is part of this investigation. Its very theres a lot of questions marks, neil. A lot of question marks. Neil to put it mildly. Ted williams, former d. C. Homicide detective. Its gripping much of South Carolina and much of the nation. We were updating you and reminding you of a very important development. A Grand Jury working with Special Counsel John Durhams Office has handed up an indictment of Michael Sussmann accused of making false statements to the fbi. The indictment said that sussmann lied about the capacity in which he provided allegations to the cyber links between a russian bank and a former company owned by Trump Campaign. Well have more on this after this. Why Bother Mastering something . 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Neil this Durham Investigation into the origins of who knew what and went and advising the fbi, talking to the fbi has finally come up with an indictment of lawyer Michael Sussmann with the allegations are that he lied to the fbi during this 2016 president ial campaign. Specifically lied about the capacity of which he was providing allegations to the fbi. So essentially turning it around to a Lowlevel Issue where the fbi was the victim of the crime. What is interesting here is prior to this, sussmann and his lawyers were saying this didnt Add Up. This is a statement that they made in a Washington Post prior to this indictment being handed down. Michael sussmann is a highly respected national security, cyber Security Lawyer that served the u. S. Department of justice during the republican and democratic administrations alike. Any prosecution would be based on an unwarranted deviation from the apolitical and principal way in which the department of justice would do its work. Were confident that if mr. Susman is charged and he was, he will prevail in trial and vindicate his good name. In recent months as the Durha Circling to the core of this by questioning witnesses about ties between the Trump Organization, the alpha banks, these other financial representatives that were also making their way to the fbi. Durham was also examined about the authenticity of that data that was given. No one is saying whether he made up that data or gave false data. Just that he misrepresented it to the fbi, which is another way of saying he lied. David spunt has more on this. David, what can you tell us . Yeah, neil, basically the crux of this story is that you have somebody here that worked for the dnc, that worked for the Clinton Campaign. Went to the fbi on september 19 of 2016. Almost exactly five years ago. Sat down with the fbi, made some allegations about then candidate Donald Trump, went ahead and said theres some connections between Donald Trump himself and russia and the donald Trump Campaign and russia. John durham, the Special Counsel, is alleging that this attorney who you see right now on your screen, Michael Sussmann did not disclose he did prior work for the hillary Clinton Campaign and the dnc. He was hired to the dnc to looking to having the servers hacked in 2016 allegedly by russia, but he didnt make that clear to the fbi agent. This is according to John Durham. I spoke to somebody that works with sussmann. They said they have a different story. I also want to read i can read a statement from his attorney to me. Mr. Sussmann has commits nod crime. Any prosecution here would be baseless, unprecedented and unwarranted deviation from the apolitical and principled way in which the department of justice is supposed to do its work. Were confident that if mr. Sussmann is charged, the attorney goes on to say he will prevail at trial and vindicate his good name. Neil, this is interesting because the john Durham Investigation began in may of 2019. We didnt see the first charge until june of 2020. That was former Fbi Attorney Kevin klinesmith. That took almost a year to actually come forward with a charge in this Special Counsel investigation. Klinesmith was accused of altering an email that was used to obtain that foreign surveillance, the Fisa Warrant against Carter Page to be able to surveil him. A little over a year now, 15 months or so later, were seeing this charge now. John durham, neil, is incredibly close to the vest. People that have worked with him and know him. They say he does not do things quickly. Hes very meticulous. He would not take a case to court unless he believes he would win that case. Neil . Neil do you have any information whether this goes beyond mr. Sussmann. Is this it from durham . No. Im told theres more of an investigation taking place. The reason were hearing about this now i mentioned september 19, 2016. Theres a fiveyear statute of limitations on making a false statement to the fbi. The fiveyear anniversary of that alleged conversation, i want to say alleged because we werent there, is coming up in just a few days. So thats why mr. Durhams Special Counsel had to do this now. As far as other parts of an investigation, people in government or out of government, the Special Counsel has the backing of the Attorney General, Merrick Garland, in his Confirmation Hearing said that he saw no reason to interfere with Special Counsel John Durham. Its pretty likely that he will be renewing the Special Counsels budget to allow him to continue. By no means is this over. Its one part of it. Neil all right. Thanks very much for that, david spunt. John looks at these matters closely. John, legally, what does this mean going forward . The first things it means is i think John Durham must have some solid evidence against mr. Sussmann. I know john. Im not going to say were best friends, but just regarded as a man of impeccable Integrity And Someone as a Career Prosecutor would not bring a case or any political reasons. He would only bring a case forward if he could prove the elements of that crime. Now the speedy element because of the fiveyear statute. He has to move forward. At least he can begin the process, which is the official Charging Document with the indictment. Its no surprise that hes come forward now with the deadline looming. The last thing, it tell me at least and you speculated about it with a question, i would think and this is where i continue know. I know youre last question on the report was is there more there. There could be. Again, this could be it. This could be all that he found. I doubt that. My hunch is that there is more. But theres just no way of knowing with these things. Were going to learn more in the next couple days as some of the facts come out. Neil john, a dumb question on my part but what took so long here . This is like five years in the waiting. Well, there is more, this is where if i had to bet, i think theres more. You dont want to come forward and show your hand as to what your strategy is with respect to a larger prosecution until you have all of your ducks in a row. In this case, hes up against a statute of limitations. So it probably forced his hand to actually go ahead and indict and file go forward with filing the indictment. You know, again, thats if theres more there. That would be a reason to wait this long because, again, once you start the process, if theres others involved, makes your job harder if youre still trying to connect all the dots. Neil so john, the fact that Merrick Garland the Attorney General did not interrupt or disrupt this case, what is the procedure there, john . Would he be brought up to speed . Mr. Durham says heres where i stand on this, would he have to bounce that off the Attorney General and the Attorney General would proceed or not know the details and say theres no reason for me to interrupt this or interfere with this . How is that ultimately decided on the Attorney Generals part . Could he have stopped it or shut it down . Well, could he have in im sure he could have. Remember, we got rid of the independent counsel or let it expire many years ago after when starr. John has to be reapointed. Theres every indication that he will be reappointed by garland. In terms of what can be shared, unless theres a conflict and it has to be more than garland appointed by a Democrat President , it has to be more than that. Unless theres some reason specifically where garland is compromised in some way, maybe some association with being a person who was indicted or the Law Firm or whatever. Short of that, everything would be, i would think, shared with the Attorney General. Would he ever shut it down at this point . How could you . I think the answer is no. John is a Career Prosecutor. Merrick garland has been a judge and whatnot. So i think thats highly unlikely if it gets shut down and John Durham gets reappointed and reextended. Neil thanks, john. Lastminute notice. I appreciate it. Michael sussmann and his firm represented the democratic national committee. Made false statements to the fbi when he raised concerns over whether Computer Servers linked to the Trump Organization were in communication with a russian bank. He misrepresented himself to the fbi, which is a fancy way of saying he lied. Now hes in some hot water. We shall see what happens after this. Que psoriasis. The itching. The burning. The stinging. My skin was no longer mine. My psoriatic arthritis, made my joints stiff, swollen. Painful. Emerge tremfyant™. With tremfya®, adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. Can uncover clearer skin and improve symptoms at 16 weeks. 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With Freestyle Libre 14 day, now he knows how food affects his glucose. And he knows when to make different choices. Take the mystery out of your Glucose Levels and lower your a1c. Now you know. Try it for free. Visit freestylelibre. Us President Biden im not out to condition and The One. I am a capitalist. If you can make A Million or a dollars to the is great. All im asking is that you pay your fair share. Pay you. Here sure. Dagen neil you know this has been, i guess i just dont go with fair share. And used to be to when we were at 37 , it was closer to fair share because resident progress. It. Maybe fair share apparently not. The surtax on capital gains. It brings it up a few more percentage points. The Low 40s is the top rate. Apparently that is not fair certain effect maybe 3 on the superrich quick that will bring up to close to 50 . That had their own, so taxes. You are well over 60 . What is it fair share . It is a moving target, isnt it . Hillary vaughn has been following that because this is lopsided. In favor of paying for it by going after the wealthy corporation. That is about it, right . Reporter and even democrats in congress to your point dont agree on what the exact definition of pay your fair share is. One thing that President Biden wants to do is supersize the irs to get more money from the value super, super rich. But one of the ways that he would do that is by making Everybody Hand over more information to the irs about how much money is going into their Bank Account and how much money is going out. President biden de irs, exceed what they make and, tell if they are cheating. It is but the super wealthy being able to. What they owe. Reporter heres a snapshot of what the irs would look like compared to today. Workers would double its budget would balloon going from 12 Billion annual budget right now to 80 Billion in Taxpayer Cash sent over spent over a decade. Democrats are celebrating a smorgasbord of new taxes that field through the committee. Failed through the committee. Including taxes targeting big business, taxes on investment income, taxes on multibillion years. Even taxes on tobacco and cigarettes. In a conference in manhattan, they said, we have found a way to pay for the spending with taxes. The net cost of build back better is zero. The top republican, Congressman Kevin Brady is telling me the math is off. I think they are planning more text these tax hikes. I worry about familyowned Farmers Bexley Farms and small businesses. I think the we are going to fight to tried to stop them first, to lower them if we can. Reporter and whether or not this is paid for. One estimate is that they could be as high as 5. 5 trillion. Neil that may be closer to a fair share. Thank you very much. Fox business that you dont get. We crunch the numbers and, what if you took all that money from the top 1 twixt all of it got 100 . That would not be a fair share. It would not pay for this. It would not come close to paying for all of this. Im throwing it out there. Hello, everyone, i am dana perino. 5 00 in new york city. This is the five. President biden we are facing a lot of pushback, especially from some of the republican governors. Proposed requirement for covid vaccines and the governor of that state calls it each radical move. That is the worst kind of politics. It is putting the liv