>> welcome to the wise guys. i'm your host and former congressman jason chaffetz, filling in for dr. bill bennett. america has been known as the lands of the free, but is that change? there is a war on americans who dare to express conservative views. we are going to explore the root of this so-called cancel culture censorship, and the havoc it can reek on our republic. join here to skits dave rubin, author of good don't burn this book. leo terrell. author of "your rights at the workplace." tammy bruce, independent women's voice publisher. and conrad black. how did we get to this place. cancel culture prevails, people feel intimidated. how did we get to this place? >> i think there was a gradual escalation. when donald trump got the mom nation and astonished the world by being elected. he did proclaim a new era replacing one that he felt and his followers felt the previous 20 years had been a failure and an abandonment of a large share of the population who didn't feel it was being heard. and now d and now the leaders shutting down the incumbent president. and slightly over half of the population demanding the reeducation of the other half. this is something that was not foreseeable. it's clearly going to collapse. it's like a bumble bee. it's denying all laws nature and ask economics. and there is widespread revulsion of this totalitarian response of people who did after all, win the election. >> i group, felt like you could say of what you wanted to say. you couldn't yell, there is a fire in the movie theater. but the first amendment allowed everyone to come to the public square and voice their opinions. but that's not where we are today. >> my first book in 2001 was called "the thought police." my concern was the development of the foundation of this which is not unique to us of course. we have seen the left do this throughout the 20th century. in order to gain power, when you can't -- per wade people, you force them to do it, and you keep them silent and afraid and punish if they break the rules set by the left. my first book laid out this dynamic. political correctness. certain words were not allowed to be said. you had to say things in a didn't way. that was a slow training for the american people to believe what you thought might be wrong. what you say might be slightly wrong and you shouldn't say it. if it's too dangerous to say manhole cover or fireman, maybe it's too dangerous to think about those i use. it's been about 20 years, late 70s, early 80s we saw that emerge after vietnam. the left really feeling its oats. for every victory for the left, this is good and let's get back into making america great again or getting everybody lifted up. for them it is one step to the ultimate goal which is complete and total power. >> leo do you like where we are in america? and why did it change? >> it's simple. let me be very, very clear. in 2016 when president trump won the election, the left-wing media got upset, angry. they never expected it. on top of that, he didn't need them for four years. he went around them, and that's what got them angry and frustrated and they were scratching their heads, wondering how is he able to ignore us. the last four years they have been plotting and planning to make sure it didn't happen again. there is bands width -- they are in bed with big tech, left-wing media and silicon valley. that's why the hunter biden story wasn't disclosed. they were going to try to shut donald trump down completely because of their anger and frustration of 2016. i have got news for you. they were successful in the situation of him not winning the white house. that's still to be dispute. but the american rub reason jected them because there were big republican victories. that same left-wing media that shut down donald trump, they are afraid of him. they are so afraid of him they don't want him to run again. because 75 million voters and leo terrell who voted for donald trump were loyal and strong and counting the days down. and not with standing the shutdown by big tech and cancel culture, we are not going away at all. >> dave, you wrote a book about this topic. what's your perspective on this issue of the cancel culture? >> everyone on the panel so far made a couple different but interesting points. first, if your intro you said they are coming for conservatives. and i agree everyone right now that isn't woke, that isn't a radical intersectional leftist is a conservative. i know that i have some political disagreements with some of the people on this panel, and like tammy, though she did it for me, i was once a lefty. i was a bernie supporter 6 years ago. i think the way we should look at this is which side is showing power and which side is showing intolerance. you can be on the right and still be a huge trump supporter or a more traditional religious conservative. or maybe on the more libertarian side of that. there is a whole bunch of plurality where you can disagree on the big issues and still get along. what's happening on the left. somebody give me one issue you are allowed to disagree with woke orthodoxy on where they won't say you are a bigot or a transphone or racist or anything else. it even trickled into economics. the bind administration is saying the $15 minimum wage. anybody that has run a business or taken -- a 7th grade math class understands why you can't artificially say you have to pay people a certain amount whether they are worth that amount or not. imagine any lefty, any democrat, any liberal saying that's no good. what will they tell you? they will tell you you are a racist. if you don't want $15 minimum wage, you don't want to help poor people, and if you don't want to help poor people in their minds that means you don't want to help black people. they have concocted a total world view on how things should work. they don't seat world as it is. they see the world as they want it to be. for those in your audience who saw the marvel movies, in effect they are acting like banos in the avengers. there are limited resources on this planet and you will have to get rid of a lot of people. which is have he time socialism, marxism or communism marches into countries a lot of people get killed. we have a thought of work to do if we are going to save this thing. >> the way it permeated scares me. it's ironic that the people who preach the most tolerance are the most intolerant people i meet. they want to turn you off and make sure you can never say anything. you used to be able to have opinions in the newspaper on both sides the equation. the "new york times" publishes something from senator cotton and a person gets fired. >> four cases where groups of employees have petitioned the management saying one of their colleagues has to be removed because they used a forbidden word. can i make two quick points in. >> i agree with what leo terrell said. they are afraid of president trump and his ability to make a comeback. and they are right to make be afraid of trade of it. that's why post election the culture movement is escalating. thank digitally this happens in the u.s. and other sophisticated democrat is. in this case the overwhelming majority of americans who believe in freedom of expression have been so silent. it's not all together a silence of intimidation and not all together a silence of it can't happen here. it's to me inexplicable. but it will end. i'm old enough to remember the mccarthy era. they censured mccarthy. it wasn't out in the publicly as broadly as this. >> we are going to talk about the role of big tech and should the courts get involved. ♪ ♪ the chevy silverado trail boss. when you have a two-inch lift. when you have goodyear duratrac tires. when you have rancho shocks and an integrated dual exhaust. when you have all that, the last thing you'll need... is a road. the chevy silverado trail boss. ready to off-road, right from the factory. use a single hr software? nope. we use 11. eleven. why do an expense report from your phone when you can do it from a machine that jams? i just emailed my wife's social security number to the entire company instead of hr, so... please come back. how hard is your business software working for you? with paycom, employees enter and manage their own hr data in one easy-to-use software. visit paycom.com for a free demo. hon? first off, we love each other... new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. the moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a short list of quality candidates from our resume database. claim your seventy five dollar credit, when you post your first job at indeed.com/home. wanna build a gaming business that breaks the internet? that means working night and day... ...and delegating to an experienced live bookkeeper for peace of mind. your books are all set. so you can finally give john some attention. trusted experts. guaranteed accurate books. intuit quickbooks live. before i was diagnosed by my doctor, i didn't know why my body was moving on its own. my eyes blinked way too much. it turns out, i have tardive dyskinesia, a condition that may be related to important medications i take for my bipolar disorder. my fingers moved like they were playing a piano that wasn't there. tardive dyskinesia can affect different parts of the body. it may also affect people who take medication for depression and schizophrenia. it's a relief to know that today, td is manageable. learn more at talkabouttd.com. jason: our public squares have evolved into virtual forums and big tech says they have the right to censor anyone who used their forum. are they overstepping constitutional boundaries? congress gave them some special power so they limited their liability on what went out on those platforms. and know it seems they are abusing the system. >> there is nobody innocent here. it's not just that they built these systems our founders couldn't have imagined could exist. they couldn't imagine some giant company like google that would have extraordinary power that would make government power meaningless. donald trump was the number one energy force in the universe in the last five days. on one day they decided you can't talk on twitter, youtube, you can't listen to music on spot if i and you can't be on pinterest. the issue is, we had all of the hearings. you watched them, i watched them, all of our senators, some of whom i respect like ted cruz and rand paul were bringing up points on section 230 and should we -- should we break up these companies. if trump had done something about it and gotten the government involved. then you have big government and big tech in bigger problems because trump is not the president anymore. now, you just handed his power to biden. >> time out. big tech being a private company got in bed with democrats and republicans and passed section 230. trump begged the republican party to modify section 230. they did not because there are a lot of rinos and country club republicans. donald trump before he left office was trying to get section 230 changed. from a private stands point they had that right. that right was given to them by democrats and republicans. the only person who saw this coming was donald j. trump. >> what about warren and tammy. they were the first ones who saw that with big tech. why can't they join hands and deal with this? it's a terrible crisis. >> for the american people, when we talk about section 230 as a platform issue. think of the stone company. that you could have a utility provide a platform to communicate with people. but if a murder was being planned over the phone, we didn't want the phone company to be sued. the phone company is not telling you you can't call people in a certain neighborhood or you can't call people with these numbers. er in not listening to you and cutting off your phone conversation in the middle of you say be -- i think of the barbara stanwyck film, "sorry, wrong number." we wanted to make sure the platform was going to be safe. clearly what big tech is doing, they are interfering in the conversation. they should not have that protection because of the nature they are doing and manipulating the conversation. canceling people. here is the problem. if you eliminate section 230, it means we can expect more controls in the name of liability protection. it means i survived, leo, you are still on social media. there will be more reasons to take people off. i would suggest and go for changing social media into utilities where there is no control in that a framework. but that's where the larger conversation has to be had. jason: section 230 was put in place to limit the liability. and the argument always was, look, if you don't like to twitter, then get after twitter. another company was formed and conservatives started to go that direction even to be denied access. it seems the arguments they were making against parler and others for taking them down were very thin. it's not a good argument they didn't have certain protections. where did apple and others get to decide they get to make the decisions about who gets to voice an anyone this country. david: you are asking where does the libertarian answer run thin? parler might be a good example with that. i agree with what tammy said about section 230. but once you say these are the public square and marry them with government. twitter will always be here, facebook will always be here. nothing stays forever. i believe these companies will crumble by their own policies. by amazon taking out parler's servers is an extraordinary escalation of what they can do to private companies, and apple taking them out of their app stores. there are decentralized servers and storage, block chain. we know commerce is changing because of bitcoin. leo: you are a true libertarian you keep government out of it and let them work it out themselves. you let private companies, that's what we are talking about. let them work it out. david: the wild wild west, let everybody be out there and provide the best product and best service. when you deny somebody to get out there and share their message is the. type 2 diabetes can have a big impact on your life. but how can it be prevented? 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[♪♪♪] ashley: live from america's news headquarters, i'm jackie ibanez in new york. snow and ice already cover large sections of the country from oklahoma to the texas gulf coast, and more is on the way. tens of thousands of people in the pacific northwest are still without power after being slammed by winter weather this weekend. texas governor says the storm is unprecedented in his state's history. president biden declared an emergency in texas. meanwhile in the east, new york governor andrew cuomo is directing state agencies to prepare for a system that is expected to drop 2-6 inches of snow by tuesday. now back to foxnation, "the wise guys." jason: private companies joined big tech on the war on conservative thought. destroying lives in the process. leo, you have been a civil rights attorney. i see a lot of people, private citizens at these businesses who decide they will have a political thought, and next thing they know, they are terminated. terminated. leo: you are being terminated for thinking a certain way. i find that offensive. but the question is, should the government get involved. does that individual have a right to go elsewhere and do you retaliate by boy together that company. i don't want government to tell employers who they hire and fire unless it's a protected class. but they are denying trump employees who worked in the white house jobs because of their association with donald trump. i think this is a temporary situation. it's the trump-effect. but i think it's wrong. i wouldn't support a company that fires someone because their political opinion or thought. jason: these are the kinds of things we hear in china. conrad: a lot of these companies give money to black lives matter and it's a tainted and suspect organization despite it professed objectives. they have a right to do so. but look at the conduct of nike. what you need is competition. who it was of the previous speakers who said -- i agree with tammy bruce they are treating them as utilities. but what we need is competition. trump is a wealthy man with a political following. he could do it. i would suspect a majority of americans are appalled by this. but someone has to get out in front and lead for them. what we need is competition. but that's america. but where is the competition. jason: i saw all of this coming, i started locals.com and we are building much more of a bottom-up internet. conrad: what happened to parler's video. >> there are no perfect answers. all you can do as a tech company, you keep moving forward and new answers start coming. i can't reveal all the ways we protected ourselves though we have a much better terms of service than we had. we are subscription based which eliminates 99% of the bad actors. one of the problems we have on line is everything is free. but nothing is free. in actuality they were stealing our data. the culture of fear is so bad that i met with most of the big conservative and libertarian money people, and they all agree we need to do something, but they are even afraid to funds things because they don't want the mob coming for them. there are people out there that shouldn't have to be fearfulful for having their own thought. that's what i worry about. the younger yearn racial coming up, we are teaching them wrong things and the wrong principles. there is a prevailing feeling if don't do what you are supposed to do and think what you are supposed to think, you will be exclude. tammy: where competition comes in and what frightens people is when there is no laces to go. americans aren't afraid of being called names, unless it keeps you from making a living. a woman hole does a blog for babies and she was exposed for a donation she made to the * and she was hounded off a site. making sure if you stands up against the bullies -- the left has a great campaign about being anti-bully. now they are the bullies. they are going around trying to kick everybody in the head. but if you know you can stands up not even for some large global principle but just for yourself and you know you will have some place to go that will help you make a living. we are all raising money online. that made us vulnerable. what leo was asking about do, amazon has a server farm. of course, there should be an alternative server farm that is for everybody whether you are on the left or right or anybody who wants to cancel you. i have again arguing for years that conservatives should buy women's magazines, that print media remains key. it's about ownership online and television network, broadcasting cable, radio, which are also relevant. jason: can anybody take a joke any more? 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tammy: clearly the truth of the matter, we have seen great comedians like seinfeld, i think dave chappelle refuses to do certain kinds of performances. sarcasm in comedy has been used since ancient rome to make political points. ranging from don rickles to lucille ball. of course, it would have to be a target because it really does change people's minds. when you are laughing and you have got more of an open mind, you are going to be more persuadable. you will receive information in a different kinds of way, that's why political actors have used comedy to make statements about existing leadership. existing leadership doesn't like that. but it's natural and should have been expected that the virus, the cancer that moved through the left will affect everything we say and do. jason: i am old enough to remember johnny carson and jay leno. everybody was the target and everybody smiled and laughed and they could take it on the shoulder. but that's not where we are today. dave: not everything was political. now everything in this country, the things that seem to bring us together are the same things that relationship us apart. politics that have leaked into anything. if you turn into colbert, it's all about politics. don rickles, what difficult he used to do? he would walk on stage and say there is a jew, there is a black guy, an asian guy, a hispanic guy. he made everyone realize they were part of this american experience no matter their religion or gender or sexuality. tammy: and we could laugh at ourselves. dave: exactly. you can look at me and i can laugh at myself the way you can laugh at me. it was a great unifier. now if don rickles was to get on stage and say there is the black guy, the jew, the hispanic guy. they would say you can't make fun of that one or that one, and it separates us. it made fun of everybody across the board. seth mcfarland said we are not going to make gay jokes anymore. does that help or hurt gay people to say you are part of the country and you should be treated like everybody else or you are a special snowflake we should keep separate. it's dangerous what we are doing. without humor, we have got nothing left. >> it's a colossal opportunity. the majority of country is waiting for the don rickles approach. the majority of the country would get up and cheer are ratings and advertising if somebody would take the initiative. but the way rupert murdoch did launching fox news. fill the vacuum. that's the free enterprise system. that's the antidote. >> i think people right now, the left is going back and making people apologize for comedy that they did 5, 10, 15 years ago. one of the sad parts about that is certain people based on skin color can still get away with this. you can figure this out. some of the comedians like dave chappelle. he will not apologize and he gets a pass. based sometimes on skin color, some people cannot say certain things where other individuals can. and i find that offensive. jason: in some ways everybody needs to take a collective deep breath. not everything has to be political. we should be able to laugh at ourselves and break bread and put our arms around people and say we are all still americans. the greatest proponent of the cancel culture. everyone remembers the moment they heard... 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conrad: all your viewers would be aware of this. 85% of the public does not trust the media. when we were young you had highly credible members of the media and they had great credibility and in general they deserved it. that's all faded. there is a huge opportunity for those who put the news accurately and fairly to separate reporting from comment to gain ratings and following. and take that to the bank in great advertising. the opportunity there is and somebody is going to do it. up asounded nobody has done it yet. jason: leo, at some point somebody is going to wants to do trait news. i'm a little bit biased. but fox news i think does report a fair and balanced product out there. i think that's why people gravitate toward it. but if you look at the people as a whole it's embarrassing. leo: people want their echo chamber. i believe there is an economic incentive, entertainment incentive. we are talking about private enterprise. the days of david brinkley and walter cronkite, those days are gone. news is different. it's delivered different. and there are multiple platforms. people are going to grab what they want to hear instead of objectivity. you will time those places rare and few. jason: i agree with you, leo. tammy: when it was walter cronkite i remember the tv stations when there were three tv stays. you went up to the doyle. the local news was 15 minutes. there was nothing competing for that information. everyone is in competition with something else. it's beyond ratings and it's attached to online platforms, et cetera. the time spent listening and watching. people are used to immediate gratification and it becomes like an addiction. we also have to deal with the --with the journalism school. we have a generation that's been trained in this dynamic. but even then i have to say, this may have always been the issue. walter cronkite and how he covered the vietnam war. we see so much information and we realize who was biased. what was true. what wasn't true. immediate feedback. this is bringing to life that we are human beings. we all have a bias and it will reflect itself in the choices of what is covered. not just how it's covered. but how it's covered. the lie bio mission. -- the lie by by omission. dave: there is nothing i can say about the "new york times" that would make it look worse than it does right now. no one in their right mind doesn't think that not everyone on is a democrat. fox says we are a conservative network and i do think they do a much better job. i come on the shows all the time i want, even with it's a counter to a conservative or republican message. the initial point is what will big tech allow to us do. it's great that the platforms exist for now. but in terms of what we are allowed to talk about, then we have a whole other problem. competition is the answer to that. and it's the answer to fake news and all of the rest of what the mainstream media has done. competition is the answer. as long as it can actually be on the same even playing field. stick around. more of the wise guys coming up. ♪ i've got the brains,♪ ♪ you've got the looks ♪ ♪ let's make lots of money ♪ ♪ you've got the brawn ♪ ♪ i've got the brains ♪ ♪ let's make lots of... ♪ ♪ uh uh uh ♪ ♪ oohhh ♪ ♪ there's a lot of opportunities ♪ with allstate drivers who switched saved over $700 saving is easy when you're in good hands. allstate. click or call to switch today. ♪ ♪ the chevy silverado trail boss. when you have a two-inch lift. when you have goodyear duratrac tires. when you have rancho shocks and an integrated dual exhaust. when you have all that, the last thing you'll need... is a road. the chevy silverado trail boss. ready to off-road, right from the factory. re-entering data that employees could enter themselves? 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