administration withheld data on covid-19 nursing home deaths from federal prosecutors. that aide reportedly said -- this is a quote -- we froze out of fear the true numbers would be used against us by the trump administration last summer. now that aide is trying to walk back that statement saying today the governor's office was comprehensive and transparent. just last month the governor pretty much blew off his own state attorney general's report that his team had severely underreported nursing home deaths by as much as 50%. >> if you think there was a mistake, then go talk to the federal government. it is not about pointing fingers of blame. it is this became a political football. why covid? why did god do this? i don't know. who cares? 33, 22 died in the hospital, died in a nursing home. they died. >> harris: you caught that, right? he was pointing fingers at the federal government and at god. a lot in focus this hour. reaction from our own janice dean whose in-laws died of covid-19 that they were caught in new york elder care facilities. separate facilities. president biden is seeming to backtrack on the threat from china. and former secretary of state mike pompeo will be here with me on that. president trump's attorneys are now set to make their case in the senate impeachment trial one hour from now. trey gowdy will weigh in this hour. first, though, i want to go to senior correspondent laura engel in new york on our top story the big nursing home scandal is bigger today. laura. >> it sure is. hi, the news of this alleged cover-up is being called a betrayal of public trust by some and others are calling to finally uncover the full truth of what they have been begging for for months. full transparency on this issue. you mentioned it at the top last night the "new york post" reported that the secretary to the governor, melissa derosa, allegedly admitted that the cuomo administration has been withholding the true number of deaths in nursing homes due to covid in a videoconference call with state democratic leaders. according to the most recent numbers released by the state, more than 15,000 people died in nursing homes which is over 6,000 more deaths than previously released by the state prior to the january attorney general's report. she told lawmakers one reason they kept larger numbers under wraps was because she claimed then president donald trump was turning the issue into a political football. state republicans have renewed their call for an investigation and asking for cuomo's resignation. in an attempt to clarify her remarks today derosa issued a statement on twitter saying i was explaining that when we received the d.o.j. inquiry we needed to temporarily set aside the legislature's request to deal with the federal request first. all of this about the numbers. all this on top of new information obtained by the associated press showing that more than 9,000 recovering covid patients in new york were released into nursing homes under that controversial directive by the governor that forced nursing homes to take sick patients in. over 40% higher than what the state health department originally released. governor cuomo is expected to meet with president biden in washington, d.c. this hour. we'll have more for you as it develops today. harris. >> harris: laura engel in new york. thank you very much. fox news senior meteorologist janice dean is here and i mentioned top of the show she lost both of her in-laws to covid-19. they contracted it in separate new york nursing homes. janice, one tweet from you said it all last night. i'll ask my team to put it on the screen. it's happening. you said it's happening. what did you mean? >> i feel that the walls are closing in on this governor and finally we have a whistleblower saying they admitted to covering up the numbers. you talked about the d.o.j. during the christmas holiday i spoke with a senior department of justice official that told me that as of that date they had received nothing from governor cuomo. so they weren't getting anything prepared to give to the d.o.j. they gave them nothing. >> harris: you know, we know about this apparently some of it from a leaked email that was obtained by "time" magazine and it shows top cuomo advisors instructed hospitals to prioritize vaccinating hospital workers over the elderly prompting criticism that the administration was actually creating a false choice in the coronavirus response. this is just a headline tear from "time" magazine. what is your response to that? >> governor cuomo has never cared about our elderly. we knew that from the very beginning when i started to learn about march 25th executive order to put covid patients into nursing homes. over 9,000 infected patients went into nursing homes. the families didn't know they were sitting ducks. that virus went through their facilities like fire through dry grass and that's a quote from governor cuomo. he has never cared about our seniors. >> harris: what's happening now, janice, i want to see if you are surprised by any of this. there are elected officials who are democrats now that are joining the drumbeat against governor cuomo. we don't know what that would look like. do they want him removed, an investigation, both? a senator said this is a betrayal of the public trust. there needs to be full accountability for what happened and the legislature needs to reconsider its broad grant of emergency powers to the governor. they want to rein in his powers in the very least. >> listen, i guess it's never too late to get this kind of support from democratic lawmakers, perhaps this is sunlight acting as the best disinfect ant and given them an excuse to go against the governor. he is ruling for an iron fist and has all the power right now. people have told me over the last several months he is feared and he is vindictive and many don't go against this governor. >> harris: i know that you took some incoming personal shots on social media and maybe elsewhere from critics of yours, supporters of the governor saying just go do the weather. i think they know now, and i think you should say it loudly, you can do a lot more than weather, girl. thank you. >> i'll keep shouting from the rooftops. thank you, my friend. >> harris: i know you will. governor cuomo is at the white house as i just said. right now along with other governors and mayors. now, they're there to talk about president biden's american rescue plan. we'll be watching to see whether the president or governor are asked -- there will be media in this room and there are microphones when they leave. is anybody going to ask about this growing situation of facts? hitting myths about governor cuomo's handling of nursing homes in new york. we'll see if anyone asks that question. former president trump's defense team is set to start making its case less than an hour from now as we prepare to enter day four of the impeachment trial. david schoen told fox news yesterday they plan to point out what he called hypocrisy in the arguments of house managers. some republicans say that could mean calling out democrats for their own incendiary rhetoric. >> the point that i hope that president trump's lawyers make tomorrow is if you look at the comments of bernie sanders, nancy pelosi, chuck schumer, maxine waters, if you look at kamala harris, there is no coherent bases on the standard they put forward that president trump's comments were incitement. >> harris: trey gowdy joins me now. former south carolina congressman and fox news contributor. good to see you. a lot of video, a lot of heartbreaking pictures to see. senator josh hawley who is against the impeachment told me every perpetrator should be prosecuted with the full hand of the law. i'm paraphrasing him a little bit. these are separate issues that have played out. how do you see it? >> well, there is a difference between a jury saying that you should never be elected again and a jury saying you should never be if power to run again. the good news for the president's lawyers is they can't lose the case. a high school mock trial team will win this case. the jury is not going to convict donald trump. however, i'm not convinced that was the democrats' point. they want to make it as painful as possible for republicans and to the extent he is the head of the republican party help themselves in 2022 and 2024. so what do his lawyers need to do? just take kamala harris, for example. remember amy coney barrett's confirmation hearing? you remember that? kamala harris told the world that this mother of seven was coming after every right you have. your healthcare rights, voting rights. that's inciteful, incendiary speech. so that's kamala harris. you have chuck schumer, maxine waters, jamie raskin, eric swalwell for the love of god. he is an impeachment manager. so play those videos. i also think you need to point out the best impeachment article was what did the president do once the siege began? you can claim you were shocked, people went to the capitol. but once they got there you can't claim you were shocked anymore. they need to point out the witnesses that could have answered that question. who called the president? who told him this was going on? what were the president's precise words? the prosecution didn't call those witnesses. good defense attorneys point out things the prosecutors could have done but did not do. >> harris: i'm curious. is there a chance of unifying through this process? this is really backfiring from democrats as you laid it out. if so much of this is really political is there a chance you unify those members who might not have seen eye-to-eye on this and get some of the six who said yes it's constitutional to join the rest when it is all over not to convict. >> well, i mean in terms of unifying the conference, i think that's tough. there are a handful of republicans that i think are just -- looking back on the last impeachment, they are just very troubled by the president in general. in terms of unifying the country there are certain things we can unify around. stop fiery, irresponsible political speech on both sides. there is a reluctance to police your own when the other side is not willing to do the same. i was not a fan of the president's speech for a lot of reasons. i didn't think it was accurate. i thought it was unfair to mike pence, i think he lost in court and you have an obligation to tell people i've been losing in court a lot. however, there is a reluctance to call out your own when the other side and the media never do it. it is called fairness, equal treatment. but i think people are waiting for the other side to start practicing that fairness. >> harris: it's interesting you bring up the former vice president mike pence, democrats spent some time on that. it certainly had some traction that i could see in social media and other places. there were a lot of people who supported what he did as a leader around that event of rioting. a quick last thought. >> well, you know, even if he hadn't done that i can tell you i'll never be the president so you can rest assured and sleep easy. but if i were the president and someone was walking around saying they want to hang my vice president, you damn well better believe i would get involved. i would be over there myself telling them to go home. we don't attack cops. we don't talk about hanging mike pence. so that's the better article but they called no witnesses on that, harris, not a single witness to tell us what the president was thinking, what he did and when. >> harris: now we flip the switch and we get to hear from the defense. trey gowdy. thank you. great to see you today. >> thank you. >> harris: the anti-trump lincoln project is accused of turning a blind eye to sexual harassment hall -- allegations against one of its own co-founders. the media pretty much ignored it. and watch for this. >> president biden: not a single solitary one who would not change places the problems the president of the united states has versus the problems they have. china is going to eat our lunch? come on, man. >> harris: then candidate biden dismissed the china threat. that was 2019. now that he is in the oval office, he has changed his tune. former secretary of state mike pompeo on whether the new administration is prepared to take on one of our biggest adversaries live next. is that net carbs or total?... eh, not enough fiber... chocolate would be good... snacking should be sweet and simple. the delicious taste of glucerna gives you the sweetness you crave while helping you manage your blood sugar. with nutrients to help support immune health. research shows that people remember commercials with exciting stunts. with nutrients to help so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's something you shouldn't try at home. insurance is cool. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ let's start with all the dads who aren't exactly “sports guys.” narrow it to all the non-sports dads who love watching sports... in the rain. with kids who can catch “almost” everything. especially a cold. that brings us to you. you're the one we made mywalgreens for. an easier way to save, shop, and perhaps catch a break. introducing mywalgreens. join and get 30 minute pickup at walgreens.com priceline works with top hotels, to save you up to 60%. these are all great. and when you get a big deal... you feel like a big deal. ♪♪ priceline. every trip is a big deal. here's huge news for veteran homeowners who need cash. refiplus from newday usa. ♪♪ record low mortgage rates have fallen again, while home values just keep climbing. refiplus lets you refinance at record low rates plus get an average of $50,000 for retirement tomorrow and for peace of mind today. refiplus. it's huge news. it's only for veterans. and it's only from newday usa. >> president biden: last night i was on the phone for two straight hours with president xi. it was a good conversation. i know him well. we spent a lot of time together over the years i was vice president. but, you know, they are going to -- if we don't get moving they are going to eat our lunch. >> harris: president biden, that was from yesterday, warning we need to move quickly on an infrastructure plan to stay competitive with china. but he also directly contradicted what he said in a 2019 rally when he criticized former president trump's trade war with china. meanwhile white house press secretary jen psaki. >> it has been a pivotal part of those conversations and part of our strategy and you saw some of it play out yesterday in the review he announced at the pentagon. so it is currently playing out but we are not in a rush and we are three weeks in and our team is taking a very strategic approach to our relationship. >> harris: former secretary of state mike pompeo joins me now. great to see you. wonderful to have you on the program. just because they aren't in a rush, she says they are not in a rush but two hours on the phone in your first three weeks? i don't know, how is this thing normally done and what do you hope they actually said? >> harris, you know, frankly less interested in what they said than the actions they take. for 50 years the united states allowed the chinese communist party to walk all over us. all of this was under republican and democrats presidents alike. what gets said only matters to the extent the administration is prepared to back it up in the same way our administration was. they were spying on it from hugh ton we closed it. engaged in trade practices that were unfair we put tariffs on them. our administration took them on. that's what they need to do. >> harris: how did the trump administration leave the situation with china such that joe biden took back when he said on the campaign trail about how much of a threat china really is? they are going to eat our lunch, he said. >> i spent 2 1/2 years working at the state level and went to the wisconsin legislature trying to influence our state legislatures. we saw what happened with eric swalwell in california. it is a full on attack on the united states. i spent a lot of time telling the story, making sure that the american people knew the facts, the american leaders knew the facts so we could develop a strategy to respond to them in a comprehensive way. 50 years of u.s. policy that needed to be turned around. we began to reshape it with respect to hong kong and taiwan. we did all those things. every administration has a responsibility to protect the american people. our greatest threat is from the chinese communist party. this administration needs to confront it head on in the same way i and my team did. >> harris: it was widely reported all the things you are talking about you did and made all of us and the media aware of, too. i want to move on. the chinese government now is banning the bbc news outlet after the outlet published an explosive story about alleged torture inside uighur concentration camps. china accused the bbc of not being truthful and ware. bbc called it unacceptable curtailing of media freedom. they aren't allowed in the country anymore. >> this is a longstanding practice of the chinese communist party. they have did the same thing to handful of american reporters as well. they won't let their people know the truth what's going on. that's how authoritarian regimes work. they want to deny that information and make sure they spread propaganda around the world. the information management that marxist teaches them gives them capacity to keep the ccp in charge inside of china. british government needs to think about what it means to them. the whole world needs to confront it. the bbc had their facts right with what is taking place. these are the kind of actions we have not seen in the world. these are the kinds of atrocities. the kind of actions we have not seen in this world since the 1930s. the world has an obligation to respond to that. we talk about something like this never happening again and we need to make sure that it does not with all the energy that we have. >> harris: amen to that. i was reading and i know we're still in an early morning frame of reference around the country. some of the things they're doing to the captives, women in particular, the young women, it is gut wrenching and heartbreaking. the united nations watchdog says it has confirmed that iran has begun the production of uranium metal. another violation of the 2015 nuclear deal. president biden said he wants to rejoin that agreement. president trump pulled america out of that agreement in 2018. biden has also said he will not lift sanctions on iran until it halts its uranium enrichment. i feel like we're going around in circles. make it a straight line so we understand it, secretary. >> harris, president biden has talked about going back, bringing america back. what he is doing in iran is taking america back to a place where it underwrites the ayatollahs, provides the money. they sent $150 billion in pallets of cash to the iranians. that money gets funneled to terror and risk to americans and presents resources that go to hezbollah and houthi warriors and this is absolutely backwards. the iranians are under enormous pressure. our administration put economic sanctions in place that hurt the regime in iran and denied them resources to committal the kinds of terror acts that we have seen them engage in. that's the right way. deny them expertise. >> thank you, harris. >> harris: a new report is rocking the never trump group the lincoln project. claims that it covered up sexual misconduct involving one of its own co-founders. howie kurtz will be here on the growing scandal. plus the mixed messaging coming out of the white house now on the president's plan to reopen schools. will the new guidelines we expect to get later today from the cdc give us any clarity? 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[footsteps] so, are you gonna buy the car? please! if i could just go home, and discuss things with my wife- i've been here all weekend. you can leave anytime you want. no! ahhh! never go to a dealership again. well, that was painless. go to vroom.com, buy a car and we'll deliver it straight to you. ♪ ♪ we made usaa insurance for veterans like martin. when a hailstorm hit, he needed his insurance to get it done right, right away. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa >> harris: cbc set to release new guidance today as the biden administration continues sending mixed messages over its priorities for safely bringing our children back into the classrooms in person. after weeks of trying to please teachers unions and parents at the same time, president biden's plan will soon be put to the test. kristin fisher is live at the white house. what exactly are they expecting to roll out today that will be new? >> second base -2:00 p p.m. today. the white house has punting to the cdc for several days now saying it is up to them to determine how best to safely reopen schools. so now it is going to be up to president biden to follow the science as he has repeatedly promised to do. jen psaki yesterday. >> we look forward to hear the cdc guidelines to gain a better understanding of what steps it should entail. the president's role is to insure across government we're listening to the guidelines and leaning into science and letting the signs and medical experts lead. >> following the science could potentially put president biden at odds with his most reliable and financially generous sporters teachers unions. many want vaccinating teachers to be a prerequisite before opening classrooms. cdc already said that wasn't necessary. rubio said the biden administration has ignored the science and refusing to side with parents and children over the teachers union. so today could be the day that this white house really has to stand up to the teachers unions and put -- really follow the science has the white house has repeatedly promised to do. 2:00 p.m. announcement today big announcement. >> harris: they can stand up to one side or stand with the parents. that way you don't have to be counter. the anti-trump lincoln project has never shied away from calling people out. now it appears the group has been hiding some skeletons of its own. associated press reporting last june members of its leadership were told in phone calls and in writing of at least 10 specific allegations of harassment against its co-founder john weaver. two of these claims involved employees but just last month when reports of weavers' actions surfaced the lincoln project said it was shocked. independent journalist has been covering the claims against weaver said the group only spoke after the scandal became unavoidable. >> behavior continued under the lincoln project umbrella and they knew that something was wrong. but they didn't speak up. i mean, most of their companies, their affiliate companies were making millions of dollars. they didn't do anything and now they are pretending they were on top of it from the moment that it happened? they only spoke up when they couldn't ignore the story anymore. >> harris: maybe we'll start to see a little bit of a change. in recent past some media outlets have been giving members a pass and continuing anti-trump interviews with them. with me now howie kurtz fox news media analyst and host of "media buzz". as i said, maybe this will change. up until now crickets. >> the a.p. report is devastating because of the lincoln project's insistence they didn't know anything of this until recently. nbc has loved having the lincoln project founders on to denounce donald trump and hold him accountable. seems far less interested in holding the lincoln project accountable over these sexual harassment allegations that john weaver has apologized for. one count they appeared on msnbc17 times since the allegations surfaced and not asked about them until co-founder george conway got the question and he said i barely knew john weaver. this is disappointing. what shouldn't detract from the work we have done to help rid the country of the scourge of donald trump he said. >> harris: the lincoln project has been accused of publishing screen shots of the private twitter direct messages of another co-founder jennifer horn. in a series of tweets accusing her of planning a quote, unquote, smear job against the group. in a now-deleted tweets. you know tweets live forever, whatever, they tried to delete it. the lincoln project said you hear a lot of talk about hit jobs in journalism but rarely get to see the origin story. enjoy. horn said she never gave consent for these messages to be posted publicly. howie. >> talk about digging yourself an even deeper hole. these were private twitter messages to a reporter, former co-founder jennifer horn was helping with the story. and it is such an outrageous invasion of privacy nobody knows how these screen shots were obtained and even george conway says it might be a violation of federal law. so that is no surprise that the lincoln project is calling for an outside investigation. there is a lot to investigate. after "the new york times" documented the 21 instances in which john weaver using his job sent sexually explicit messages to 21 men to try to seduce them. one as young as 14. one of the other co-founders used the trumian tactic of denouncing the media. saying the a.p. report was another hit piece from trump world. i don't understand how it would be from trump world rather than dealing with the substance of it. it won't make the story go away. >> harris: you had 21 people who were potentially victims of weaver's, okay. we're celebrating black history month on fox news and here on "the faulkner focus" and talking to two powerful voices. former nfl player jack brewer and olympian john carlos. a trailblazer for social justice in court. remember that? we'll talk athletics, activism then and now. they both join me live next. you don't want to miss it. ♪♪ [ beeping ] [ engine revs ] ♪♪ uh, you know there's a 30-minute limit, right? tell that to the rain. 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>> absolutely. i would like to start off by saying our cause at the olympic games in 1968 was relative to humanity. we were concerned about humanity. we were concerned about the plan of those who were less fortunate, blacks in particular. so as we stated when we went to the games, we didn't control the media, the newspapers, magazines, tv. all we can control was the entity we was involved in at the moment. in that moment we come together and say here we are as five individuals in society. if one individual said if i can move this from one side of the road to the other and make a great advancement to humanity. he can't do it. another one says john, you got to put your hand into it. he can't do it. at the end of the day the five individuals realized when we come together as a power-based, as unity, as one, we cannot only move that across the road but now we can move a mountain. in terms of us coming together as human beings on this earth to resolve the issues that we have confronting us. that's what the fist was all about. >> harris: the fist was about love. i love that. >> absolutely. >> harris: jack, you know, i want to get your perspective now on what you think is a myth buster with fact. that's what i feel like john did. people may have thought that fist meant outrage or the opposite of the love he was representing. what is something that you are doing or that you are witnessing now during black history month that also is fact over myth? >> the fact of the matter is most african-americans, whether marching for blm or in their churches praying over their congregations, most folks understand the struggle. we understand the plight. but at the end of the day we want solutions. there are so many african-americans that may not know exactly how to get it and find it. i think it goes back to what john said. realizing what that plight means. what does it symbolize. today in our society today that symbolizes our educational gaps that we have. our children, right? we talk about black history month. you look over the course of time, we've never been in a time like this where young black kids are so uneducated when it comes to academic levels and reading prove i shall en sees and math proficiency levels. we know if our seed, our children are hurting like that and are at that big of a disadvantage, we know that our history right now needs some healing. because even when my folks grew up and probably your folks grew up, education was the key to get out. right now these kids are just not getting that. so for me black history month reminds me of what really matters. that is getting that foundation back to our people, to young black folks. and that is something that all people no matter what color you are should want the most underserved to be educated. >> harris: all right. i asked both of you if there was anybody in your lives this month you with like to recognize. you both gave me names of athletes. i believe jack johnson was on your list. can you just quickly tell me why that's important and how the athlete plays a role, john? >> well jack johnson was one of many. as an early individual. but i think jack johnson along with mohammed ali and paul robeson and on and on, jackie robinson, tommy smith, bill russell, you know, so many black athletes that have been in the forefront relative to the issues that concern black people. we've always been there on the forefront to express our concerns. yes, we are athletes we might be treated better because we're the symbol of greatness. but there are so many in our communities that are not revered in that view and we want to step up and speak for those that was voiceless. we have always done that. as i said to you yesterday, i feel that athletics and the arts are the sedatives for society. it doesn't matter about what your race is, how much money you have in the bank or what type of job you have. when we come together as one to support a basketball team or football team, when we go to a jazz concert, we don't give a hoot about what your religion is, we're there to enjoy the moment. this is why athletes feel if i can be recognized as much as the president of the united states, i have a voice and i choose to use my voice to make some sort of parity amongst society. >> harris: jack, i want to give you a chance, too. you said jim brown. quickly, why? >> because i think jim, one, he is living and sometimes we have to celebrate folks while they are here. jim brown used his career pre and post to go into the communities and actually touch the most underserved with his hands. for me he has always been someone that i've looked up to and tried to model a lot of my life behind using what god has given us through sports to be able to really serve our people. not talk about issues or rahrah about it but go into the hood and the communities and schools and do something about the issues that we see. >> harris: john carlos, an icon on that olympic stand. we know the fist was about love. five people working together. those fingers symbolize all of us working together toward love. jack brewer, thank you for leading us through present and future, jim brown is still here and you are doing so much in our communities for kids as well. i thank you for yours, jack. we'll be right back with "outnumbered" after this. carl shopped for the lowest mortgage rate and chose amerisave, a choice he'll never regret... ...unlike the choice to hitch hike. ahhh! which ruined his hand modeling career... it's over. don't worry, carl. things are looking up. visit amerisave.com now. lower mortgage rates mean higher savings. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ visit amerisave.com now. hey limu! 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[ laughter ] good evening! meow! nope. oh... what? i'm an emu! ah ha ha. no, buddy! buddy, it's a filter! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ >> harris: breaking news just moments from now, former president trump's defense team will begin making its case in the second impeachment trial. you see as we have each day this week, they walk into the senate chambers now. we are watching special coverage together here on "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner, dave four of the impeachment trial in the senate, trump's attorney about to begin making opening arguments after house impeachment managers rested their case yesterday. the defense will have to have up to eight hours today and can continue into tomorrow, saturday, on the weekend if they need to, when they wrap the case, senators will begin questioning the two parties so as we watch as i want to bring in everybody. emily compagno, my cohost. a host of "kennedy" on fox business, kennedy in gillian turner and joining us in the center seat, ken starr. great to see everybody, ken starr, talk to me about what the defense needs to do today after watching a lot of football i said defense but it's kind of like that. >> ken: [laughs] they are going to run the play call, the first amendment of free speech and allow some technical arguments about, hey, you showed really bad things happen and you showed it in a very powerful way but excuse me, did you indicts those people? know, you impeach someone who is now the former president of the united states. and let's now analyze what he said. it's not what did the president know what it he noticed, what did the president say and also a comparison with the inflammatory rhetoric of chuck schumer and the whole litany of go out and do things, fight hard and so forth, remember hillary rodham clinton, i will fight for you. let's interpret that, this had a different meaning but then it comes a matter of interpretation and the house managers will lose on the first amendment. i believe, i believe they should lose on the first amendment side. i hope that the defense team will not lose sight of the fact that so many of us, i know there are a lot on the other side, think the whole thing is unconstitutional. quick point, why the heck didn't they march the article of impeachment over if there was such a rush, if he was such a danger, if there was a january exception to march the impeachment article overcome i don't sit on it and that's what they did, it was gaming the system. it was a lot of games going on here including the way the house manager showed to essentially play to the emotions rather than the law. >> harris: what you're asking, ken starr, what i understand as you are asking the legal question about urgency and that plays a role in any case. it's already, it's a neutrality for your argument. kennedy? >> kennedy: i had a really interesting conversation last night with andy mccarthy about this and perhaps the house didn't deliver the appropriate article of impeachment. and auntie pointed out, with incitement you have to improve intent, at least in a courtroom, we know this is a political proceeding and is very dubious whether or not they were able to do that here. i think what a lot of the video and some of the tweets have shown that the house managers, that we got to see, it was really shocking and really disturbing but that doesn't necessarily have to do as much with the actual incitement charge. then proving the president's intent and as andy pointed out it was a dereliction of duty that was the most egregious, as all this was happening. the president was silent for hours. >> harris: we are going to give ken starr a little bit of a workout year, emily compagno has a question. >> emily: good morning, ken. my question revolves around intent. much has been made of the proceedings and that they are political and not legal and i think reviewers they'd like to hear, what exactly is the standard then? we know that incitement to insurrection in the criminal world requires specific intent and it seems to me that the house impeachment managers have proceeded with the case that it really rests on, but for president trump's rhetoric would have really happened which is more negligence. can you articulate for viewers what exactly is the bar that today the defense will have to shatter in order to acquit the defendant, then-president donald j. trump. >> a key point, thank you for identifying the two, you need intent or is it but for so we are in the legal weeds very quickly but we are going to come out of those weeds equally quickly because of the senators can vote any blood he way they want to do, they can say, i'm going to vote to convict even if i feel the managers did not establish that a crime was committed. others will take the view, excuse me, high crimes and misdemeanors, did you prove the crime that you charge? and that's why think again, playing offense now with the first amendment, the first amendment is going to stand as a huge impediment to success. but i think the better view is that a crime needs to be established. for the senator to vote in favor of conviction but that is frankly not the view that all the senators are going to hold, it's much more, shall i say, political, the government and also a moral kind of judgment about fitness to hold office. he's no longer in office but it's going to be much more of a political and moral judgment then it is a legal determination of where the of the defense actually proving to my satisfaction. >> harris: i interviewed senator john call yesterday on "the faulkner focus" and of course he's been in focus since his whole insurrection on january 6, he spoken out against, he condemned what happened and he did so again on my programs. he just didn't see that impeachment was here, use our reports of senators expressing such emotional reactions to some of the videos they've seen and some of the footage and audio from the capitol hill police officers that we hadn't heard who were under duress and under attack, to a person, when you talk with republicans i've spoken with, these are heartbreaking situations but going from that to impeachment has been a journey

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