Patterns and be ready for what awaits us, both during the war and after the war ends, no matter how it ends, and it is quite difficult to keep this framework of freedom and human rights democracies, when survival instincts come to the fore, and this is understandable, it is not some fault, it is just. A context in which a responsible person has to rely even more on selfreflection, and simply every day, making a thousand decisions , it is difficult to remember what we are fighting for, but what gives me optimism is the fact that when you open any research for all these years regarding ukrainians and values, ukrainians are always placed in the hierarchy of values freedom first. And the perception of freedom, it generally implies an obligation, but right here it is important to understand whether freedom is a tool for building a civilized country, or freedom is an element for an anarchic perception of oneself and the state and oneself in the state, this is a very correct question, because freedom and will, you know , its so obvious, and different categories, its the same as someone told me that we were all on the maidan, but everyone stood on the maidan for their own, well, that is, for their own. Phenomenon and this is the truth, this truth needs an even deeper study, because if for me freedom it is an opportunity to take responsibility for one s actions, that is, for me, responsibility and freedom are equivalent concepts, that is, i do not transfer responsibility for my life to someone else, i am able myself, i have the freedom to take responsibility for it, then for someone freedom i, for example, is often used to explain to western societies, the problems that are already happening in them, i say, it is the opportunity to choose between different cheeses in the supermarket, that is freedom, freedom of choice, i just went to the supermarket, chose different cheeses, i am a free person, i can choose my own cheeses, and this is how i see it, well, this is how freedom was perceived in soviet society, there were not several types of cheese, and those who have access to products were considered free, obviously, and now western societies, which they absolutely do not know what it is like not to have a choice of cheese, they see freedom. This is how it is, as a requirement for the state to secure their comfort zone, and that is why the explanation is so difficult now, i am again making a link with our situation, that if ukraine does not stop russia, then russia will go further, and they will be forced to leave the zone comfort, and all this help that we will receive, and for which we are certainly grateful, because nothing is guaranteed in the world, no one is obliged. To provide that assistance, but its not just assistance, its an investment in their own security. Well, here it is still important for us to understand how to prevent the degradation of this understanding of freedom in society, because you know, i remember the Russian Society there very well in the 90s. And by and large, at least in the big cities that were the centers of the country there, such as moscow or st. Petersburg, the level of this freedom and responsibility among many people was much higher than in ukrainian society. We saw hundreds of thousands of rallies there in defense of free lithuania there, or people even went to demonstrations against the war in chechnya, and there was a huge number of people who voted for the liberal political forces, it was the largest, perhaps, but it was millions of people all over the country, and now these people are simply gone, we even now see from sociological polls there that the majority of russians would generally like the country was communist, their number increased. Every year, sympathies for stalin grow every year, that is, from the society that i observed, as a society that seemed to gravitate towards freedom, only memories remained, it is possible to write memoirs. But also the poor rights activists, by the way, now to mention, who in fact put their whole lives on making this society the way they dreamed of it, made compromises with the authorities, remember, like ludmila aleksieva, nothing came of it it turned out, just nothing at all, this is very important for me moment, how can we prevent such opportunities for us, i dont have a simple answer, but i will try to tell my vision, yes indeed. Society can become rigid very quickly, because what i see and observe in Russian Society is rapid barbarization, then this entire thin layer of culture in the form of dostoevskys ballet and so on, it, it simply overlaps with these patterns of behavior that we see in ukrainian the territory that was forcibly brought here by the russian military, if for someone russian culture is conventional tchaikovsky, at least with his ukrainian roots, then for me this is budcha, this is russian culture, this is what we saw there, these dead bodies of people lying on the streets, and with their hands often tied behind their backs, until the moment of their liberation, this is russian culture for me, well, like german culture during the second world war, auschwitz and babeniar were absolutely, and there is a difference between german and russian culture, but your question was not about that, so i will answer it first responsibility on people who understand the threat. On the ukrainian intelligentsia, on ukrainian civil society, because the minority determines the vector in which the country will move and develop, and therefore it is important that this minority is organized, that it articulates its messages, and that it speaks in different languages about the same thing, which even under a time of genocidal war of extermination, we must remember that we are fighting to remain a free society. And this challenge is twofold, and that this war did not begin in february 22, as the world thinks, in february 14, when we are in the first once got a chance to build such a free society. Well , at the same time, the attitude of the state and society towards this particular person is also very important, you see, something that we have not seen very often even since 200 there in 2014, when it came to forced migrants, even not only from the side of the state. From the side of society too, do you remember those suspicious views of people who were forced to leave crimea and donbass because they did not want to live under occupation. Well, we as a society need to grow up rapidly, and for me one of them is that signs of growing up, this is selfreflection. Its when you dont just feel your emotions and think you have the right to do whatever you want because you re hurt, angry, or whatever, but when you try to manage them. As an adult, and yes, you have the right to all emotions, but even with all these emotions that we all feel during war, you have to make balanced decisions that have a positive effect not only in the short term, but in the long term. I never mention it on the International Stage but always i remind you that at the meetings with the ukrainian audience, the war in syria has started very early. A long time ago, and the ukrainians, they too were not the kind who fell asleep thinking about the poor syrians and woke up thinking about the poor syrians, thats me , besides, when we talk about the indifference of the world, we have to remember ourselves, and i remember how much i i have been involved in human rights since 2007, about a huge scandal, when the question of building a shelter for syrian adults was simply being discussed in ukraine, and ukrainians, well, people are local in this. They said no, no, no, we are nobody we want, and i will not be surprised that some of these people may also have become refugees and received a warm shelter in other countries, which we once denied to the same people who fled from the war. Therefore, selfreflection is a very important ability of adult society. You understand, to be honest, not every person is capable of selfreflection, a lot depends on state policy, to be honest. Speaking again and from the media, because asking every person to engage in selfreflection, even in a period of, you know, survival, when you need a million problems to decide at once, when money becomes less, and children need to be fed to school, driven, husband who is in the army, to collect help for this husband himself to fight or work too hard to feed the family in economic conditions, which. Is changing, it again about survival, yes, thats why we wont be able to tell everyone, you have to, you know, reflect, understand the situation, it depends on how much the state and society are able to respond to the yoke, you know, i just dont demand and. I remind , and i speak and act and act always based on the fact that i am not transfer my responsibility to the state, i am not a public servant, i am not a politician, and i have Great Respect for the work of journalists, i understand the role of the media in a free society, but i also know that people have a lot of power, and i appeal to people with a reminder , that it should be done and who is capable of it, even in the conditions of those that. Have developed when, when the truth is that society is sick, when society is tired, when we go to bed and do not know what awaits us in the morning, and the first thing we do is check, and what happened last night, because even if your city in kyiv was not shelled, yes, that does not mean that other cities were not affected that night, even in such conditions, i remind you that we have before ourselves, not before anyone, but before ourselves. It is such a moral, i would say, obligation to reflect on this situation as much as it seems possible to us, well, people always perceive the protection of human rights and responsibility for crimes against humanity as some effective tool, remember you know, which was in ukraine, you can even say joy when a warrant was issued for Vladimir Putins arrest, well, its important, i can explain, its not only important. From the point of view of law, in the longterm perspective, if putin lives, yes, then he will be in trouble in the sense that authoritarian regimes fall, and their leaders, who considered themselves untouchable, end up in court, not all of us, honestly, all of us, but in we have examples, we have examples of milosevic, whom serbia did not want to hand over to the hague, but serbia was forced to, that is, we do not know what the future will be, but we are this warrant we are trying to construct the. Version of the future that we need, but even in the short term it is super important, and here it is not even the legal consequences, but other consequences that matter, i travel a lot now to Different Countries of the world, meet with president s, with members government, with parliamentarians, with journalists, with different audiences there, and i know and everyone in ukraine knows that there are politicians, even the western world and not only orban, who would like to return to the socalled business with. And thats it legal decision, this warrant for arrest, he puts for they are a barrier, because maybe orban can shake hands with putin in beijing, but already a person who declares his commitment to democracy and whose voters follow this, well, he already understands that if he shakes hands with the worlds biggest kidnapper of children, well then he will lose his career in this society, that is, there are still. Shortterm consequences that are super important for us. And tell me, hatred for putin is absolutely understandable, but in principle, one way or another , during the war, society lives in this category of hatred, it doesnt happen otherwise. You yourself mentioned about bucha, what kind of emotions it arouses in people, it arouses hatred for those who did it, for the country, for the citizens of this country who are able not to notice it, and how to get out of this hatred is also important. Kill a german, ugh, and at the end of the war, even the soviet leadership was forced to try to move away from this article, and then it was never republished. I read this article in the orenburg collection published in 1942, after 1445 it was already impossible to see it anywhere. I think that. Because when you are on the battlefield, then this thinking is twophase, that is, which is very much has only two colors, black and white, it is necessary, because you are trying to survive, because in a battle, if you do not quickly figure out where your enemy is, well, you will just be killed, so when you look , that a russian soldier is coming at you, you dont have the luxury of thinking, maybe he is fooled by russian propaganda, or maybe he has three children, or maybe he is a beautiful. Person and an outstanding musician, well, if you think so, then he will kill you, because this is a battlefield, and this is the logic, it is justified there, and a lot of things that are justified on the battlefield cannot be automatically transferred to the rear, because hatred is a very complex feeling, like an emotion that needs an outlet, you ask me what to do with it, well, im not a psychologist , i find it difficult to answer this professionally, i. I know only two things. The first thing is that the same commanderinchief of the upa , roman shukhevich, said that we fight not because we hate those who are in front of us, but because we love those who are. Behind us, and the second thing is that i already see how this hatred in the rear, like people who cannot touch to reach out to the russians, they are not on the battlefield, they are beginning to vent to those whom they can reach, that is, to themselves, and i can already see how this hatred, which is being cultivated, is fragmenting ukrainian society, and it seems to me that we rear, if we are no longer in the trenches, we need to be kinder to each other. Because everyone is sick, everyone is tired, you do not see how the war was fought with a person and how your word can hit this person. Instead, we watch on social networks, well, not just a parade of these aggressive comments, but very dangerous ones trends that can tear apart the social organism, and this, when you look, sometimes how they are attacked, in the last case, it was paramedics. Kateryna, a pseudobird, who survived in azovstal, went through captivity, and then they began to reproach her there that she doesnt look the way people would like her to look, she wrote a post that she was criticized for her weight, and you just think god, we dont need putin, what are you doing, get off her back. At the same time, it is very important to understand how. In principle , this is public, i would say, disappointment, just disillusionment with a long war, people just didnt expect it to be this long, they are somehow disillusioned with the fact that they have to live with a long war, even if they understand the inevitability of it, how it will be reflected in the postwar part, you are at the beginning during the war, they said that for you victory is not just the restoration of territorial integrity, but also. The completion of the democratic transformation of the state, but now there is such an uncomfortable question, whether it will be possible to do all this, to complete the democratic transformation, to create a real a society of United People in the conditions, if we do not manage to restore this territorial integrity for a long time, then we will be forced to do it in the conditions that exist, because we cannot predict the future, but the future is also not written in advance by anyone, which means that our generation has to make everything dependent. And carry out these democratic transformations so that the next generations, if we do not manage to restore the territorial integrity of the borders of 1991 , it will be easier to do so, we must look and play longterm, build longterm strategies, and that war does, it narrows that horizon, because we cant plan for the next months, we cant plan for weeks, we cant plan for our day, we dont understand what will happen and when, and thats the ambition for a long strategy, that. Also resistance, because we say that no matter what, we know that someday we will restore it, someday we will return to these borders, and now we are taking certain intermediate steps, i will give an example so that it does not sound abstract, i i am a student of ukrainian dissidents, my personal roles are many fate was played by yevhen sverstyuk, he is a philosopher, writer, prisoner of soviet political camps, i read a lot of memoirs of ukrainian and russian dissidents. And thought about this question, because from the point of view of the shortterm perspective, well, they looked like the ones who lost, because the movement was crushed, some people were killed, some people ended up in the soviet system, there was no mass support, there was no mass support, fortunes are ruined, families are divided, so in the short term they lost, but now we are in 2024. So we know that we regained our independence in the 90s only because in the 60s this group of people struggled, so this is laying down a long strategy and sowing seeds that will germinate, well , thats super important, but what should come first, effective state or Effective Society in such a situation, or it is not necessary to distinguish . I think that an Effective Society is interested in an effective state, but we cannot pay three times. Yes, we cant, but now a lot of things in the army are still covered by volunteer things, we have grown up powerful volunteer funds, they are already they buy such weapons, well, they started with mattresses in the 14th year, yes, with some socks, and now they are already buying some unreal, heavy, heavy mechanics, although in reality it should be done by an efficient state for our taxes, obviously, so what do i care . Lead . That paying three times is not unreasonable, we are doing it temporarily now, an Efficient Society is very interested in the state becoming efficient, so that we start. Paying once, but already, you know, to be exactly on target. Thank you, ms. Oleksandra. Our interlocutor Oleksandra Matviychuk was a human rights activist. Thank you to everyone who was with us on this broadcast, which was conducted for you by vitaly portnikov. I wish you all the best, friends, victory and peace. Problems with the joints limit movement, it is unpleasant and painful. Strengthen them with the help of long joints. These are packets of collagen and vitamin c to restore articular cartilage. Dolgit joints contributes to the normal functioning of the joints and has a positive effect on bone health. Dolgit joints facilitates motor functions. Stretch your joints, move freely. What . Bahmud, bahmud is a place of fear and a place of bravery. No matter what anyone says, bravery is not the absence of fear. Bahmud is the adventure that will stay with us until the end. Our days. The children were born in the era of independence. Who are they . There are many of them, and they are strong and brave. These are the guardians of the traditions and martial arts of their ancestors. These are boys who never cry. Lemberg, mother, dont cry. A book by the writer olena cherninka. A mothers book about her son, a hero who was one of the first to volunteer to defend ukrai