Very not given to everyone, yes, very high, and about which, what should be talked about so a little quietly and with a lot of respect, here people just come in, and just open the door with their feet, so to hamlet, and they just very, very simply even such slang, how they talk about literature, how do you perceive it . How do you listen to it . I perceive it very positively, it seems to me that this formality, this, which was imposed on us, is catastrophic, as soon as a conventional virtual chorus starts to sound from behind, you have to get out of shape, then wear a very long skirt, then immediately something ok, and i think its great that they are finding this new language, that this language is different, that it is accessible, and i, as an editor, am constantly asked by Young Authors if it is possible. In the texts i say yes, please, lets go, and i give a few examples so that they understand that all this is possible, that we will have more registers, we will have even more opticians, we will have even more different views, then this will be a more interesting project, and i do, i also really like it when new people come in who are not professional literary critics, who are not my fellow students, far, so they can give something completely new and interesting, and their speech is alive, and their minds are very inquisitive. And i am especially pleased when some appear very youthful initiatives, teenage ones, when it takes off in tiktok, when we have a desire not only to steal the rock scene as a star, but also to be a tiktok star, and this seems incredibly valuable to me, because ttok is now largely making literature and can sell entire editions, and these are all very different techniques, but anything that works for the benefit of literature, im for it with both hands, i think that podcasts are generally a very liberal genre. Medium, because even if we take our you are talking here and now, we are sitting in the studio and we need an incredibly large job the number of people behind the scenes, so that our dialogue with you is realized, and the viewer is not interested in this, he should not even think about it, he should be comfortable and interested, and a debutant podcaster, he cannot afford such a team, but very often he has a smartphone where he can experiment with recording, buy an inexpensive buttonhole. Record a conversation alone or with a friend, edit it and pour it, try it, and how will it work, and you talked about gogols mustache, i know that they started with two loops, and recorded the sound themselves turning the page, it was a very lowbudget product, but later, if success comes, if your language is read by your audience, of course you can afford more experiments. And its really interesting for me to watch those projects that are growing, but they keep this very liberal spirit. Sometimes they also immerse themselves in the expert part, they involve literary experts in their projects, again, and such incredibly interesting interactions take place, but in this there remains such a kind of wildness, which is very healthy. On the other hand, i i really like the cult podcast of Volodymyr Yarmolenko and tetyana ogarkova, and i think that. The medium of the podcast also allowed them to be more liberal in their conversation, that is, maybe those things that they cannot afford within the framework of lecture courses or books that they have quite formalized, its a high shelf, definitely, but in the podcast they can allow a certain experiment, which later, maybe will also be expressed in an academic form, or maybe not, but there is a thrill from this experiment, which we as listeners can just in our ears perceive, and it will already move. Our thoughts, and that is why i am very impressed by this freedom that such genres bring, by the way, i listened to gogols mustache today, i am still under the impression of the conversation. About shakespeare, about shakespeare and about hamlet, where they call hamlet a scourge, and ophelia a harlot, and this, well , this is actually interesting to listen to in this highway and they mention you very often bohdan, they say no, well, this is a smart guy, lets not be this smart guy, because it is rather bohdan, not barak, let him deal with it, they swim like that on purpose, thats how they swim on purpose, actually. In this, we congratulate each other in this way, yes, but look, i understand this kind of point of view, and i am very close to it, that it is all desecralized and deformed and that everyone can speak, and i absolutely do not pore girl, but on the other hand, i sometimes listen to it and wonder if we are not simplifying in this way, if a person can or cannot do this. Young to hear it, yes, and this, well, as if it could be a spoiling of taste and optics, when too much of it is driven into very simple such forms, low, i think any good podcast, and whether its very raunchy, or whether its more like really high shelf, it has to encourage first of all to read, look at the source, which is the main purpose of the podcast, why do everyone do it yourself went and formed an opinion. And i really like when there is resistance in the audience, for example, to my words or to my position, because i know that if there is resistance, it means that they will go and look and express their position, so they will argue, they will to discuss, maybe they will write a comment that is not very pleasant to me on youtube, but they will go, understand and form their vision, so any good story, any good podcast and conversations, they should be encouraged to go and form their opinion. Again, not to impose a readymade matrix, but at school they imposed one matrix on us, and now we will impose another matrix, another pillar, in other words, but the same matrix, but to go and look for it yourself, and good podcasts, they cope with it, even if their position can be undermined, then it is already the moment of undermining generates an intellectual discussion, but in order for there to be an intellectual discussion and or , for example, for something to trigger you or for you to disagree or disagree with something, right . You must already know something, and if it is, for example, a very young person who has not read anything, and here she is told in a very simplified form, and she seems to have the feeling that, well, i already know it, i already know it, i know it there can be such an effect, yes, when, when some things are retold or reflected on some things in a very banal way, it it can also be like that, it seems to me that now is such a time. When we feel very much the importance of curation and the importance of those people who offer us the keys to different doors, such, well, lets call them intellectual doors, lets say there are a number of series of classics, and important are these comments before or after the text, where we understand that, say, vera ageyeva, Rostyslav Semkiv or yaryna tsymbal or other literary experts whom we trust will tell us something about the author and the text. Lets say im thinking about a figure. Ukrainian women and how a person forms a private relationship with her, not school, not because of the image on the banknote, but personal, and it is not always so easy to simply take oksana zabushkos story about Lesya Ukrainka, dive in and understand everything, and then in fact these promotional projects come to us, which can offer the keys to understanding , you listen to something. One thing, another you learn the history, the context, after that you come to the original text, and then it is quite possible that you can discover something more complicated. At the same time, i do not want to completely devalue ukrainian readers, because i am convinced that many people, what i am talking about actually said, but i want to repeat, they can immediately immerse themselves in what we consider difficult texts, and there is no need to be afraid of this, because sometimes the experience you have before will allow you to. Well perceive even what seemed inaccessible and the highest shelf, or Something Like that, which was rejected all the time by you even during school, from the School Curriculum, but i hear a lot of such opinions, well, for my generation, it is like this, that ukrainian literature, teachers of ukrainian literature, it there was something that, on the contrary, turned us away of ukrainian literature, i wonder if something has changed now or at school. Do you know any of the students from whom you can find out how, for example, Olga Kobylyanska or Lesya Ukrainka are studying there . Yes, it has changed. I never refuse to meet with schoolchildren, because it is an opportunity to actually hear what they live. The change of the School Curriculum and the way it was reformatted from Junior High School and later helped a lot, which was led by many modern ukrainian writers, that now they read the fairy tales of hali tkachuk, volodymyr arinev, there is tanya stus and other living, real writers who write on current topics, which you can read. Olga kupriyan, as a teenager, and not read, as they imagined a teenager in fitka halamitnyka. Well, now none of the city schoolchildren will be moved by a boy with a cow walking through the field. Well, no one is interested in this cow. And it seems to me that such a change in the program and reducing the number in favor of slow, careful reading of the text, it works very well at the school level. It works very well to attract different formats, films, discussions, discussions, invitations. Living writers, talking with them, it seems to me that my School Program was very overloaded, i had to constantly read huge volumes and well, i liked to read, but even for me it was not easy, and at the time when they chose between mathematics and literature, mathematics, so that mathematics is more important, it will be needed in life, because these are exact sciences, and literature was neglected, it was a classic story, if there are such huge volumes, and no one can cope with them, they had to be reduced, and now. I see these trends, and when i come to schools, i really like that the students very often have their own opinion on this topic, that they can tell me no, this poem by Taras Hryhorovych does not fit anywhere, therefore, for that reason, and i really like that they are ready to argue with Taras Hryhorovych, because i, for example, did not have such courage when i was 12, but they do, so i think that modern youth, they are very critical, they are very demanding, and this is a very good you. I found out, bohdano, what it turns out to be, children now in the School Program they study the master of the ship yanovsky, and i was amazed that how much children like it, that is, it is not a simple book, it is not a simple book by yanovsky, and it is not a request, it is also necessary, in terms of understanding and knowledge of the context, it is also necessary, but it is on the one hand, on the other hand it is love, and adventure, and an absolute kind of atmosphere. The romance of the sea, how is it and what is it for, we talk all the time with acquaintances, what schoolchildren, masters of the yanovsky ship can love for, for example, in what, what the secret can be, it seems to me that this is enough simply, its adventure, its this flair of the sea, its cinematography, but also remember the novel itself, theres something that never. Happened, theres an old cinematographer reminiscing about his youth, and its something that we would dream of for our own, those who were in their 20s, yes, for those who survived, for example, for dovzhenko, his memories were completely different, they were much more bitter, they had completely different problems, this is some kind of, i think, a big dream, that didnt come true with that generation, and. And the reader still feels that sense of a dream, and its a gift, which was left by yanovsky, but it is important for me to Say Something else here, that recently there was a study by piza, which showed that ukrainian schoolchildren do not read very well, and the level of reading skills is falling, after that i talked with the kyiv teacher artur proydakov, who invests a lot in the idea of another reformation. Education and in particular the approach to reading, and he talks about things that are scary for many, this is, lets say, not a chronological approach, but a thematic approach, and this is the reduction of the works that are read, this is the opportunity to stop at the texts and read them unabated, and not in two hours to run through this city, try to immerse yourself in, for example, certain types of descriptions that are present there, and then look. Video or go for a walk with your class, if you are in kyiv, and this is what i dream about, in fact, i wanted this in my own school years, but i am convinced that today it is simply very necessary for us, if we want to the reading took place for real, so that there was no imitation of reading, and the child had to remember who was in red shoes, who was in some type of zhupani, and it seems to get it. To pass the test, to have the child do what bohdana just talked about, say what she likes, lets say, about this text by shevchenko, and maybe she doesnt like something at all. That is, to learn to read from some work, from some work to learn to read and think critically, and i, as far as i know, in the west in america, in america they study for a long time, for example, shakespeare, they can study some one work of shakespeare there for several semesters . Yes, i had such an experience, i taught a course at one a large platform, a cultural project for adults called slow reading, close reading, and we read not. We read the whole text, and then we read together a separate small passage and tried to apply to the passage all the possible tools that we have, what weve learned, what we know from our experience, and it turns out that adults are very interested in that, theyre interested in stopping, allowing themselves to be within a paragraph for half an hour and talk about this paragraph, and thats what they ve been missing at school, not separate and grasped details, but to immerse yourself in the fabric text and be with it. Text in dialogue, i think that in school it should be, to get high, to have time to get high from the text, in particular, and i will finally ask you about the conflict, about the conflict, it is not a generational conflict, it is rather Something Else, and we have already talked in this studio with lyuba yakemchuk about this musical album, which was prepared by such a mur, about the Creative Association of mur, and this is. And the musical is called shot, its called a romance about a shot revival and the residents of the kharkiv house of words were shot, so this the project alone talked about it was met with tremendous admiration and spread and was very rich with many epithets beautiful, and others were very indignant, for example, galina kruk, a wonderful poet, she said that. It is dangerous, she was angered by this project, because, for example, for example, she says that the penis is presented as a pale, pitiful servant who bows before the authorities in order to become a minister, and Mykhailo Semenko teaches the listeners, the listeners with a cheap provocation, i am quoting phrases from this project right now, and this is what the critics of this project called. They called its creators the creators of this project called kvns and illeducated people, lets say, such critics as naphtholinic schoolboys and some dinosaurs that do not reach, cannot reach a wide audience. This conflict, all this something will not escape, yes, it is absolutely something foreshadowing. Or do you see or actually actually, because actually i m sad too, yes, how the stream is presented, because its such a massive project, because its the wrong optics, about the stream in my opinion, maybe its not right, or its something, thats in general, what is the story with this, with this scandal, the discussion around romance, i will speak for myself, i had a restrained attitude towards this project, i saw many enthusiastic reviews, but i wrote then that i became restrained, because i understand that i am absolutely not the audience of this project, that it should not be aimed at me, that this is not my story at all, that i read yarina tsymbal or rostislav melnykieva there, or read a lot about our 20s, we have a whole series of our 20s published by the publishing house, and that is why i did not expect it, they reasoned with me some individual musical compositions, sometimes i felt very simplified, sometimes there were moments that seemed successful to me, i. E. Somewhere. There was something successful, somewhere something was unsuccessful, but in general, in general, i did not perceive this project as something that should resonate with me or be close to me, for me it is the project, which again should ideally lead us to reread the text, reread semenka, look and compare semenkas rebellion there and semenkas rebellion in the musical, find some common points, that is , if it led someone to this process, that s great. But, well, it wont be me, ugh it is clear, yes, but this, it is clear that this is not about our bubble, but the actual claims of galina kruk are that they are false, false optics, wrong optics regarding the ukrainian revolution, regarding the bubble, regarding all these people and so on. What do you say, bagdan . I actually liked that this project appeared, and ill explain why, it seems to me very noticeable and symptomatic that. The following names are becoming part of Popular Culture a new composition by Volodymyr Dantes was released the other day, and he says Something Like it is better to read from tus, i could not imagine. Such a few years ago, you were also shocked when you heard it, in a pleasant way, i liked it very much, and i can comment on a specific album, you are a romantic, analyze the compositions, but i am not really interested in this, i am interested in Something Else i i feel the passionate desire of the people who were involved in the creation of this album to really answer the question about the stamen, agree, it is on. Easy, and if there are people to this day who think that the waveman killed his mother, then that means , that all these questions, they are still scratching our heads hearts, and readers, and thats just how we find out about these figures, so for me the appearance of such an album is very positive, because i want us to discuss in our own social networks and in the news, not the details of how ukrainian scoreboards they wri