The occupation will be the occupation of the Zaporizhzhya Nuclear power station and from the return, which means our children from abroad, and the grain corridor and much more, they, of course, stick to their position, and they invest in their position the following main meaning we must stop fighting, and none of them does not say that let s stop it now, as russia. Offers, in fact, that these territories that are occupied should remain in russia, nothing like that, lihui was even asked, and he clearly confirmed that no, no, no, we are not in favor of this, we are in favor of preserving the territorial integrity of ukraine and ending this, as they call it, conflict, and nothing changes there, but tell me what you think, and what that is territorial integrity in general, the president. Dogan, lets say, clearly says that he recognizes the territorial integrity of ukraine and considers crimea to be ukrainian, and it is absolutely obvious what he means, and china, when he talks about the territorial integrity of ukraine, he never details what he means, everything after all, crimea and donbas are ukrainian territory from the point of view of china, or not . We ve never heard that. How did we not hear this . We have heard that china said a long, long time ago that it does not recognize crimea as russian, does not recognize the republic of donetsk and luhansk, although there were , of course, some points that can be counted as support for this position regarding territorial integrity, this is without crimea, i mean, when a singer there sang in mariupol in a looted theater and so on, it happens like that, but the official position was clearly stated. Crimea ukraine, donetsk, luhansk oblasts ukraine, and china does not adhere to any other positions, at least officially. Thank you, mr. Igor. Ihor lytvyn, ambassador of ukraine to the people s republic of china in 1992001, cochairman of the ukrainianchinese business council, was in touch with us and we talked about the last tour of the special representative of the peoples republic of china lihui to kyiv to europe. Capital before that, luhei visited moscow, spoke there with representatives of the ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, we tried to understand what this chinese tour is connected with. Now khrystyna and i will take a break for a few minutes, but please do not switch, we will continue our dialogue. Damn, stairs, my legs cant walk anymore, wait for me. 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Artists and artists rediscover shevchenko for ukraine and the world. About this and much more, see now today at 21 at espresso. We continue the saturday political club, khrystyna yatskiv, vitaly portnikov, we will talk for an hour with mr. Vitaliy about things that remain between the deadlines, which are still important to emphasize. We just had a conversation about likhoe, his visit to kyiv, and before that his visit to the Russian Federation and the european capital. There is an understanding that china wants to understand, to check the clocks, perhaps, but something similar in reality was also demonstrated by the president of turkey recep tayyip erdogan, he said that i would wanted russia and ukraine, and us, as a negotiating platform, and all this is clear. President zelensky, his meeting with erdogan, we understand that it was not only a bilateral meeting of the president s, but also an agreement on defense ties. That is, after all, turkey is a little different from china in this position. She is looking for opportunities to help ukraine. Well, to a certain extent. Where it does not contradict, lets say, her interest in relations with the Russian Federation. The Russian Federation calmly looks at a certain supply of weapons from of turkey, because at the same time torechchyna opens up for russia those opportunities that western countries do not open for it. And honestly, i dont know what would be better. Perhaps it would be better if turkey did not supply us with any weapons, but would close the possibility for russian oligarchs to have their money in turkish banks, for relatives and friends of putin, to have villas in turkey, that is, in fact , turkey is helping russia to get rid of it. Exceptional effect, and together with this we get some kind of weapon, well, this is such a compensation, you can actually do a lot, even the same kirpi cars on which our marines drive, it is really important, but this is always a question, where is this balance, imagine that any western country would give us a lot of weapons and not and did not introduce sanctions against russia, we believed that this is treason, and somehow it is from turkey, well, what can you do, it is from turkey, but in fact turkey is a member of nato, it is part of it. Western world, she should have behaved completely differently, but she doesnt, and this is also a very important moment in this whole story. Regarding the talks between the president s of turkey and of ukraine, then you saw that they completely differed from the point of view of how everything should happen. President erdogan believes that ukraine and russia should talk to each other in istanbul or anker, while president zelensky follows this scenario the peace formula, the states turn to russia. Then russia is invited or not invited to the peace summit, the next one, and there they will talk with someone who will be ready to talk constructively, as far as i understand, this is not president putin, and this is a world that does not exist, it may exist in the imagination of vladimir zelenskyi, that such a world should be, it is a world of justice, but we do not live in a world of justice, we live in a world of war, injustice, aggression and. A much less comfortable world than in the heads of politicians, ugh, and this is also necessary to realize, in relation to china and in relation to turkey, it seems to me that they are simply measuring the temperature of the water after the ukrainian offensive ended and the russian one began, that is, is ukraine ready to realize that it will not return its territories, that it is necessary to agree to russian conditions , that is, if you want. To save something, then you can use our services to fulfill the russian conditions, because the future will only be worse for you, this is actually what they say in ankara and what they say in beijing, you dont have to make up your mind. Some such complicated motives, what about us, i dont think we can agree to it for one simple reason i dont believe that russia will go to any negotiations at all, i believe that this is precisely the desire of china and turkey , because it would be good for china if ukraine would remain in the role of such a great belarus, became such a lukashenka country, because another. European country in the orbit of china, and this is guaranteed by the russian role here, it has always been and will be, it is simply necessary from the point of view of creating this bipolar world , because we already understand how china sees this bipolar world russia, ukraine, belarus, and, relatively speaking, hungary, slovakia are there as friendly countries, you saw that viktor orban also communicates with the chinese. Scholars, and i do not understand how it fits into the fact that he is communicating there at the same time with donald trump, how he explains it to donald trump, well, i dont know, but the organ is a person who can explain a lot to someone, lets not dwell on it, this is such a moment, another moment that is also it is very important that russia does not need all this, russia does not need any lukashenkos ukraine, and i will tell you honestly, lukashenkas belarus, the russians are just waiting until eventually they finish off lukashenka sooner or later, he just physically goes somewhere. I can think of it, its so absolutely a specific imperial scheme, roman, uh, like in rome there were some kings in the provinces, and those provinces were states while those kings were alive, because rome considered them important allies, they actually did him a lot of favors, uh, and rome agreed that there could be egypt or judea, kingdoms, and when these kings died, i would simply turn rome. Into these states into their own provinces, ordinary ones, because he did not need this statehood, it was just a gift, so say, grandfather of the emperor, to another ally there, the same with belarus, i think that when lukashenkos term in office, or his physical life, ends, russia can simply annex belarus, join it to itself, and this will basically end the history of belarusian statehood, well, there may be some nominal part of the union state, there is nothing going on. There will be no belarusian, not even the way it was in the times of the soviet union, and the same will have to be expected for ukraine, when putin was going to install yanukovych and medvedchuk here, i think, then transfer power yanukovych, i even believe that he could agree to the existence of such a reduced loyal ukraine, but exactly until the moment when medvedchuk needs it, this is such a gift, you will have. The ukrainian kingdom from this, and when there is no putin and there will be medvedchuk, then this part of the union state will simply hold some session there, im sorry, not every thai, allrussian gathering of peoples representatives, and then i will inform you about the unification of all these three states into one, a very simple program, and therefore the russians will not insist on chinese proposal, they will fight as much from their point of view as is necessary to destroy the very possibility of ukraines independence. Of state development, well, they dont need ukraine between the west and russia anymore, because it was a mistake of the bolsheviks to leave ukraine like that, and they already understood that when you leave it like that, it starts kicking later, and putin says absolutely clearly that he wants to correct the mistakes of the bolsheviks, who created these allunion republics in the first place, and it must be understood that putin has believed this since the 90s eh. 20th century, there is nothing new here, i think i told you that i heard for the first time these thoughts that ukraine should leave the soviet union without the gifts of the bolsheviks in 1991, he is anatoly sabchak, i was putins political teacher, who came here to kyiv at the head of a delegation of the Union Parliament to find out our intentions, and there it all sounded from him, all these ideas of our compatriots with you, that it happened in 2022, the 14th year, the fourth year. But if we were, so to speak, breathing evenly and not insulted putin, then none of this would have happened, this is an amazing childish illusion, because it was never considered that this state in this territory should last for long, it was just choosing the most opportune moment to destroy it, as putin said, now we know from this book , to the last politician, cia director robert burns, now is the most. Good moment to destroy the ukrainian state, because in his opinion Volodymyr Zelenskyis government has shaken the state institutions so that they will not be able to read, which was wrong, by the way, eh estimate, if we look. In the first place of war, because there will not be, there is no obvious european leadership and no one will be able to read, so putin had absolutely clear ideas that it would be easy for him in this particular situation, he is like a predator, if he sees that the victim is weaker, it is necessary to simply finish this story, if it did not happen in the 22nd year. Putin would say that maybe we are not as weak there as he thought, then it happened on the 23rd, 24th, 25th, it does not matter, it is still an inevitable process, just as crimea was inevitable, because we we talk about 2000, the 14th year as something extraordinary, but russia was preparing a special operation to annex crimea back in 1994, when prorussian president mishkov was there. Petersburg, and before that, the Verkhovna Rada of the Russian Federation adopted a resolution on the russian status of sevastopol. Ukrainians ignored all this, because for the vast majority of them the capital was still in moscow. No, not even then, but. Then i was still in moscow, and they just thought that it was all there, well, what does it matter where you are this crimea, well, because we are only two years old were in the same state, in the cis, and it didnt seem like a threat, but when the war started, when we already felt like a real state, it was, of course, much more acutely perceived by many people, especially those who grew up in the absence of alternatives, which is ukraine and they have never been. In the soviet union, and those who were, also perceive it differently, they perceive it with disappointment , not with surprise, that how come, they were all together, and here suddenly they are killing us, so these are all completely understandable processes , and with from this point of view, i say again, china simply does not understand this, that for russia this is not a story about statehood, but maybe it understands, it pretends, do you remember this ambassador of china in france said that the former soviet republics have a limit. Sovereignty , well, he said it out loud, well, that is, you should nt think that a person in such a position is just some kind of lowspirited person and just says everything he wants to say, it was such a cautious signal that you will understand how we react to it lets see that we also think that it is not up to the state, but we cannot say it on high equal, so let the ambassador say, we will refute him, but the signal was obvious, the west heard it, that is also important. Mr. Vitaly, you said that russia, when it wants to eventually seize the former soviet republics, can behead or remove the nominal leader. Belarus is lukashenko, but this week there was an assassination attempt on the president of ukraine and the Prime Minister of greece in odesa. Is it something similar, or are there completely different motives . Well, look, russia really counted and will count. That after may 2024 it is possible to resort to certain destabilizing actions, saying that the president of ukraine has exhausted his powers, is an illegitimate president , there is no legitimate power, and she will also work with this history, that is why i believe that, by and large, we would need a clear the explanation of the Constitutional Court regarding this situation, so that there would not even be any possibility to question the legitimacy of the government after 2000. May 2024, but on the other hand, we clearly understand, and i am surprised that many of our compatriots of this does not realize that the simplest method of solving this problem is the physical liquidation of the president , all the more convenient in a situation when he seems to have run out of powers constitutionally, that is, to combine this Propaganda Campaign with real action, imagine that too. That the president of ukraine dies during such an attempt, well, this means that the acting president becomes the chairman of the Verkhovna Rada, but again, look at the Verkhovna Rada, there are already not enough votes in the majority, so they are there this week under the pretext, what they cant, they have to go to the front and look at the dugouts, they dont work, we understand that its just a profit, they simply dont have you. People, and this is also , first of all, by and large, already a demonstration of the crisis, now imagine a simple situation the president dies, and you. The Verkhovna Rada cannot elect an acting president , because it does not have what it takes to of this quorum. Ugh. What do all institutions look like . Well, no way. Collapse. This is a collapse. Of course, you can form a Higher Council of national salvation, it is up to you will take powers, but it will not be a constitutional body. It will be some extraordinary body, it is not clear for what period. Allies will start saying there that we should hold elections. And we will not understand how to conduct them, the russians will try to identify some offensive, some military actions, some missile strikes, so as not to give us the opportunity to cancel martial law even for a month, that is, this is a direct road to destabilization, and i believe that theyre not going to do that, first of all, this missile strike, its not just a strike, which i dont think it was a specific attack, that they believed that they would definitely fall into it, this is a signal, huh. One of the first signals that they can do this, that is, it is actually not an attempt, but rather blackmail, because before even we did not think that they could strike in this way during their stay in odessa or in kyiv or in the dnipro , anywhere, a representative of another state, not a representative, a manager. Greece, that is, there were shellings, but they were shellings that allowed this or that official to move to the bomb shelter, and western and not only western leaders spent hou