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Every week, the saturday Political Club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world. Vitaly portnikov, host of espresso and factbased experts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events, want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, see saturday politics club, every saturday on espresso. Dear friends, we are returning to ether and now we will see Yehor Checherinda on the screens, and you and we will say good morning to him and give him the word. Good morning, colleagues, i cant hear you very well, but i hope you can hear us well, we are in kyiv on the landscape avenue, and we will speak now with oleg dundda, a peoples deputy of ukraine from the ruling faction of the servant of the people, who has just taken part in the the yth international antiwar conference of the forum of free russia, which was the first and on october 2 was held in tallinn, previously similar conferences were held in riga and vilnius, if i am not mistaken, i do not seem to be. and mr. Oleg, what are the main conclusions of this regular meeting, the russian opposition, the main helmsmen of this forum, this Harry Kasparov and ilya ponomarov, there were also ukrainian representatives, about them a little later, what conclusions do you smile, or is there really something to smile about, what conclusions do you draw for yourself, what is the progress of these forums and what is the evolution of the russian opposition . Please, well, first of all, i would like to congratulate everyone, and meet with you this program, very interesting conclusions. In my opinion, the forum, this is the forum , in general, i have been there as a speaker for more than a year, and they are evolving very quickly, well, very quickly, if only a year ago they occupied such a place. Position, that is, they condemned the war, they condemned putin, but they were not ready to do anything at all, they did not even create a fund for putins head in a year, which he proposed at every conference, at every conference, they hid, were afraid and so on, the bounty hunters on to some, definitely, definitely, because he is a terrorist, well, its normal for benland herself, the United States put a bounty on his head, and why not putin, he is the same, even worse, and in this case, in a year, they still came to the point that they at least. Obliged to finance those russian volunteers who fight for the armed forces of ukraine, against the russians, this is already a big post for them. Moreover, to my great surprise, my theses that the opposition should not be just a position with balloons and there in a white coat, it must have weapons, they must have, choose the opportunity to choose their future at the expense of weapons, they. Have the right to take revenge on those who put them behind bars, those who kill them, in fact, kill the same judges, prosecutors who are there for example, they imprisoned navalny, to help armed volunteers, to help raids in the bryansk kursk regions , this is to my surprise, after a year it is already accepted by them, they support it, they have already announced the collection of funds and in fact announced that the only scenario of obtaining power and the overthrow of the existing fascist regime in russia, this is armed, armed resistance. Mr. Waugh , to kill judges, how does it correlate with the principles of world humanism . Absolutely, at least, this corresponds to the principles of the constitution of the United States, which provides that any people have the right to armed protest, if their rights are humiliated and the people are actually destroyed, individual representatives are destroyed there, well, the minority, and in this case, that but navalny is a jerk. Well, look, they were very influenced by the story of the beauties, they saw that inside this power in russia , it is not so monolithic, it is covert and weak, well, if the conditional 500 fighters are beautified, no one can stop it, and putin is fleeing from moscow, accordingly, this prompted them to think that this is the right way and it is necessary to take a weapon, because otherwise it cannot be done. Mr. Oleg, well, i read kasparov, a quote, only a total military defeat gives a chance that the imperial virus will leave the body of russia, well, a lot, i followed this forum, many of its participants said that the complete dismantling of the russian system is necessary, can not replace only putin with some political prisoner kara morza or navalny , whom you mentioned, and we will recover, since we now have a new russian tsar. The understanding that russia must totally lose and totally dismantle the entire state system, but among the russian. Oppositionists, because it seems to me that not everyone thinks the same way as kasparov, please. Yes, there have also been major confrontations this year, even a year ago, they are for themselves, the same kasparov perceived when it was, probably in august 22, that crimea is definitely ukraine, but Everything Else should remain as the russian federation, as they call it, from my point of view, it is an empire, then a year later they already agree with by the fact that some national republics still have the right to exist and some. The territories will go into independent navigation, but what will remain, that is what we need to work with, although from my point of view, russia should remain, i think they will get there, russia is the Moscow Region and maybe several regions around him, Everything Else should have the right to an independent existence, its independence, and so on, and it is a matter of time when they will come to this, i told them a year ago that the broadcaster sparov never, never conditional khodorkovsky or navalny, and so on , and so on, i will never sit down. To the throne in moscow, as the russian empire, because modern society in this empire is so infected with this imperial syndrome, the versailles syndrome, that they will never accept any liberal opposition at the head or anyone they accept, and we saw this from the events in rostov, when prigozhin was welcomed because he has power, that is , those who have power are accepted there, those who are ready to shed blood and take up arms, but this is not about these representatives. But as a separate state in the form of the same muscovy, from there it is possible to create such a liberal state, a liberal regime, there are no other options, well, let s talk about other participants from ukraine in this forum, well, in particular, besides you, ukraine was also represented, ukraine majlis, head of majlis of the ukrainian tatar people, refat chubarov, peoples deputy of ukraine, as well as journalist Yury Romanenko and former adviser to the president s office oleksiy aristovych. Well, this speech of his caused a lot of indignation there, including you and the progressive Ukrainian Society there. Aristovych said that the greatest fascism is to make all russians fascists, or consider them fascists, and russians, too. Should not respond to the call of the ukrainians, glory to ukraine , glory to the heroes, since it looks like training in the opinion of aristovych, and he was physically sitting there, spoke, and this speech was even after he made this feminist call of his that women should first be reconciled with them, and then strangle them, and received an appeal from deputy ina sovson to the Law Enforcement authorities, and you also appealed to the Law Enforcement authorities, regarding the speech precisely in tallinn, regarding russian fascism, what is this appeal about, is it documented , please, we are currently working on it, i think we will appeal in the near future, but it will be very unfortunate to see at the forum when russian oppositionists with russian passports, like that kasparov, or other representatives there, they were more proukrainian, like some representatives, speakers who have ukrainian passports, well , it sounds very strange, and it was even more strange to see that the representatives are the same, we are talking now about arstuyucha , in fact, in his own way, he repeated those theses that were said, russian propaganda says, about the great russian people, the Imperial Russian people, about the fact that ukraine and russia need to be together, about a single people, in general, profraternal peoples, he repeated everything, everything said, thats it it looked very, moreover, he actually repeated that there are fascists and nazis in ukraine, well, you are what moscow is now appealing to the World Society with. And its propagandists, well, it turns out that he was not much different from the same one, there was skabeeva, or there was simonyan, or something else, well, in this case , the question arises, after all, who does he work for, in general, well, let Law Enforcement decide that authorities, lets not be judges, mr. Yehor, it is very, very interesting that after that, a scandal broke out, a very big one, and a lot of things flew in our Information Space. Information about his speech immediately after a few hours somehow very quickly on and this, lets say this, a representative of ukraine with a ukrainian passport aristovych, somehow quickly put him on the wanted list of the ministry of internal affairs of the russian federation, and without specifying, a criminal article, for which, that is, i never vote no not as a terrorist, not as an extremist, but just a search for a criminal, unknown criminal article, it looks like a coverup operation, i was taken off my tongue, a coverup operation, lets talk about information hygiene with you, a number the american media, including fox news and politicians, reported that wellknown american senators, their names are marco rubio and tom cotton, appealed to the Us Treasury Department so that the ministry of finance, the Us State Department and the Us State Department would check the terms of the purchase of the American Global publication forbes, because according to the information a number of media, including it was written on. The ukrainian publication nv, which is the global american forbes, was bought by a billionaire from russia of dagestan origin, whose name is magomed musayev, he is a relative of the former head of dagestan and a person as close as possible to the fsb of russia, well, according to the version of journalists, investigators, well, in this way, the video of this magamet musaev, where he says that he belongs to everyone in the fsb to the first person with putin on his right foot, was also merged into the Network Buying forbes opens his keys, gives him the keys to all the high offices of the world and influence , tell us how much this information hygiene is, how americans and we should be attentive to such things, and egor, we have been talking about this for the last month, about that despite the fact that government offices in washington, berlin and paris are being told that they are not taking part in the war, in fact moscow has declared war and they are at war, by the way, this is the same thing that happened to us 10 years ago, when russia, in the 10th in 1112 years, it did not invade ukraine, as it happened in 14th, the beginning of the war began due to an information campaign, influence on political parties, influence on the media, influence on civil society, the formation of prorussian narratives in order to split society, in fact now moscow uses the same methods, the same instruments in the countries, the action of our western partners, using the media, all the same, that is, in fact, they have declared war on them, and we are trying to explain, no matter how you close your eyes, you are already at war, because you have to admit, first of all, that that you have imposed sanctions on conditional billionaires, it is not because they support or do not support the war, it is because there are no billionaires or wealthy people in russia who are not accountable and subordinate to the fsb and the kremlin, they are in fact appointed, are agents. Fsb, if the fsb Agency Takes Possession or under the influence of, such and such a channel, the information channel fer forbes, well, it is for what purpose, it is not in order to make a that, for example, another example, in general, the majority of expert circles in the United States, but in the investigation, the last 20 years are financed by the investments of these billionaires, and that is why for 20 years it has been constantly promoted there through various expert platforms, through various fink tents, exactly the thoughts that russia is great, it will always be, because it was financed, this is the first and the last example, you and i can remember a purchase elon musk on twitter, there was a very interesting chronology of events, when he first announced that he was a coupe, and then spent three months looking for reasons not to buy it, allegedly because there was not enough money, and at some point he announced, but it was early got up in the morning, said im buying, im canceling all reasons, im buying right tomorrow, he has free funds, and when we look at where he has funds from, including funds from the middle east, saudi arabia is there more than 10 billion, but most of the funds are not at all where he took them, but if we take them the same saudi arabia, russia, russia in the middle east has very large channels and tools of influence and it cooperates and promotes, including through the countries of the neighboring world, those narratives, those tools that it needs and can use, including to influence elon musk, on the former twitter and so on, well, what does it say, how does it still work, here i will also quote this mohamad musayev, one quote that is widely available on the internet, i have people so that you understand, he speaks at the level of the first persons of these organizations, the fsb and the special services of russia, i informed them in detail about what i was doing here in the states, it means who i am, what good i do for russia, when undesirable elements like khodorkovsky and others come here, how i level this story, and how then the question is to make this informational influence impossible , because russian business , this money goes to the states, goes to the states, there is a certain american. Entrepreneur to whom this asset is registered and pound pound pound and the money goes kremlin oligarchic criminal russian. Well, we saw it the history of trump becoming president , the Mueller Investigation and how local businesses were used to contribute to or influence the trump campaign, there were many examples, but at the end of the day, the most important thing is that our partners have to understand that they are at war, in order for them, their security services, to start working and catch this agency, to catch those agents of influence who exist in order to , in fact, preserve their Information Space from criminal influence from moscow, otherwise it can be done it is impossible, neither i, nor you, nor zelenskyi, nor stefanchuk, nor danilov, we will not be able to do this, we have a minimum of resources, but we must explain so that they turn on their fuses and their protection tools. If it wont work, sir, but many people will say, well, whats wrong, what influence can the same forbes have on politics or on some economic or political processes, its just the internet or a paper publication, forbes can have more influence than 30 congressmen combined, because western governments and western democrats arranged in such a way that they are influenced by the publics point of view, whether you like it or not, but the conditional president there, the congressman must listen to him, because he will not be reelected, and in this case, the same force, the same fintanks, are used precisely for that , to influence Public Opinion, already through Public Opinion from below to influence the actions of congressmen, the actions of government officials, etc. , by the way, this is what we had to do, i will give a big small example of how it works, the netherlands, 2015 referendum in the netherlands regarding the association with ukraine, association agreements. How the russians then worked out this story, influenced society so that we lost the referendum, well, its good that the government then took a slightly different path, but at the end