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For the parts it was that population. And because of that, it was important to, lets see, eliminate him from the political fuel. So whats it like to live with a government that kills its political opponents, unseen from moscow . Why the southern space of warnings, by nato officials, about a russian attack over the next few years. What do they know . But we dont on the right color of welcome to complex of excellence. Its much, its time for president ial elections in russia, of letting me a put in once a 5th time. Thatd be my food and always gets what he wants is this is close to absolute power as it gets in russia. Yes. So this is one more step to choose absolute power. But so when were asking our sales, where was this 20 points for she seems as a decrease of michigan mostly because the development of his interview was somewhere in the year 2020. When she called the referendum about some amendments to the constitution, because it may think about 0 increase prison, essential terms. And now she is over to an old president. And the after is that all the doors were open for any steps from his sites like to this war was february 2022. Unfortunately of nevada means the same year 2020 it doesnt have much to do with democracy. It does at these elections. Even mr. Perkins spokesman, dimitry pest golf told the New York Times last year, president ial election isnt really a democracy. Its a costly bureaucracy. So why bother with this show . Because so this is one more attempt that demonstrates to the majority of the rest and populations that they, they are still the majority, which is obedience, indifference and ready to continue to accept the pretense initiatives. And this is important, thats minority minority is a must understand that they are still minorities as they can to influence anything cause this country because we have a majority which is in flash which supports proteins. So nothing to do with this political system. We cant change anything because of that. So this election starts to no significance is the same times as this one more really rounds aflac. Why not to, to repeat this kind of really and to refresher as a legitimacy or for you to correct. Oh, credible candidates of being eliminated way before the polling stations open bar is not just in the anti war candidate. He was disqualified by the states because some traction for awhile. Was he a, a threat . Was he didnt the threat addition was squared to tricked into the public who was liberal views. And you know, in the rush or millions of people who are sharing to liberal pro the critic pro western the anti portion of the vision of the world. And because of that, in addition was kind of a fault for just people wednesday sun and its pushing it and it was understandable thats a criminal decide. Its not till ocean to participate because she puts it undermines the feeling of absolutes, consolidation around putting in a case of getting, i dont know, 56, given 10 percent it man, it will, it means that to pretend hes not the only one who is so who deserves so the supports and there are people with the enter your agenda not to mention that and zip case. And that doesnt include demonstrates enter your agenda via television. And the code says shake because of use. So for the majority, which is still not connected to the tv set. So, so with no, they decided not to not to risk even that slide risk. Im alexa, nevada, me that in a prison camp in the arctic circle, was he ever really an electrical threat to prove to or was it that he and others like him . Were never going to be allowed to get anywhere near that status. The one that didnt have an opportunity to participate in the legal political process. But so when she does participate in the year 2013 during must goes to my ears elections. He was extremely efficient, astonishingly efficient for kremlin investors, as they decided to not to allow him to participate in any kind of like options. So she was the real threat to put to getting them to some moments. So moment to the means that bus to the whole political process reduced busy. Now this is fine between the fall knee and approach him. And is that sense even being can prison . That when it was a threat to pretend that competitor may be invisible in an information field about the same time, quite mighty and square to compress it for, for the parts of the population. And because of that, it was important to, lets see, and eliminate him from the political field. Do you by the story that he was about to be swapped for a kayla. So having time in germany, do you by that story . Of we dont know the truths may be, will know nowadays, but it looks like plausible story and, and in this sense, simple, it wasnt requested dance. Uh that she was, lets say, maybe killed maybe by some, maybe something else. So we have to wait for some results sofa. Shes still able to search. True, maybe is the gym to clear up some good deals and i found this family is pretty clear and his colleagues are pretty clear that the state did kill him. You wouldnt seriously argue with that, would you i would say likely. So the experience of this regime demonstrates that its as possible. Lets remember as a case of st policy or any other cases and put in the several times to repeat it to you are anxious, courier that the, my pets realty color oriented, or again, since people do that. But these and because of that, among people with uh, lets say liberal views, there is no doubt. Thats nobody put the keels. Uh no, no, we dont have the uh, conclusive evidence of it. But the feeling is very strong. Come on, russian Civil Society. We know that they tried and failed to kill him back in 2020 and we know because the millions listen to a government assassin describing his previously unsuccessful attempt to kill him about a little realizing that he was actually talking to him about the im being recorded by him at the time. So nobodys going to believe any government denials of a underscore. Uh, you know, its mean so what do we mean by nobody to because of the majority still prefers to believe freedom, main unofficial version or prefer us not to think about this. The horrible story. Yes. A lot of russians. Uh they didnt know about the police and things that i didnt know about that thats, thats not what all names are in this camp near arctic circle. But uh, the majority prefers not to boulder itself. Uh uh, not to pay too much attention to, to this for us in order to keep for themselves mentally normal. Um this of tomorrow, but the majority prefers not to know anything about. Uh like, uh, uh, cuz you though it is still with his dad says that the red cetera. And because of that, thats more about the leaf with disbelief amongst people with the normal view. So democratic fused, were going to invite from a lawyer at the Human Rights Group memorial said if they could kill nova on the baker, kill anybody else. If hes right, where does all this and all the kennings, all the Political Prisoners. Why does this, and i know the real threat is to Political Prisoners for sure. No, we dont have a political position in the proper sense of the words right now because of a high level of impressions. Kyras in the, in names a substitute new new orleans of last year or so for his existence and i, i, i would say that unfortunately, for instance, people like to let him know cut them. It was a, or, yeah, yes. And could be under threats, but not everyone in dissidence community, but uh, the main of the most local people from mazda political, a position, because barto was a political position as a broad sub parts. So for the star in prison. So for people who are in prison, so there was a real threat, i think unfortunately, you spoke of the found this funeral about moral resistance among the population, people carrying flowers and candles to his memorials. How much of that more resistance is the less than russia . I guess trends of sorts moral because as i said, political position isnt so efficient right now. And this is more about a more resistant sanibel political resistance. This people can fight as they dont want to find for power. They dont have fully addresses. They dont have organizations which are totally liquidated by the regime, even small in jewels. But the joseph no only demonstrates as a funeral from the dentist way to that this Civil Society still here. We must be for a society of such which is very different from the passive and full of confirmed miss and Civil Society. The society of responsible citizens who, to who was the best. Who was a country hor, in a permanent order because of this war. They demonstrated that they are here, it was a huge step for people folk for were going to cause a funeral because of the face recognition system is working and sometimes policemen are coming to a to is if last. So was this people after a different kind of evidence of funerals like the link flowers as a man, as a place . As of man, there we go for political repression, so its cetera, et cetera. So if you want to see the so Civil Society in the rush, we can overcome. For instance, the website over then for with the concrete statistics about persecutions, about the criminal prosecutions, administrative persecutions, extrajudicial persecutions. A lot of examples of these kind of problems for russian citizens, but she resist Civil Society, which is still ready to resist and ready to at least a think of all the constitution think about so as a responsibility, collective responsibility you, you talked about values, legacy. Id like to know how long you think it will last, isnt it inevitable that as the years go by, that will be less and less opposition . Moral or real repression works best and it progressions efficient yes for business work, but at the same time uh, this fatigue from room is also sheer. And in a case of mine, there was successful for a Civil Society and demonstration that was to use uh, some people cough. Hesitating hor, pacific one for me says they cant shares of you. So for this x, if a Single Society activities a so in that sense or actually isnt hopeless and ive seen it with just like and so the attempts were when Minerals People were ready for change of skin color. But your ok when go with the literature for took the power ends is be a bunch of population, is also ready for changes, but so, you know, in current circumstances kind of a single dont, must came from the very top. And the was out a change in the 1st person, i guess. So the serious changes in russia are impossible. Veteran now, extraordinary efforts and youve outlined some of them to, to clamp down on even the slightest infractions of this expanding penal code that they authorize. Keep adding to we hear of teachers in schools reporting a 1011 year old pupils to the Security Police books, a band people are arrested on the metro because they were reading something. But the fellow passengers didnt like every case pursued with the utmost vigor and brutality. And i suppose my question is, is the state really thats in secure about its hold on paul, and its people, you know, it smarter bell Cell Development of russian style. All sorts here is my would say this is not simply and assorted terrorism is more about a name, its high, but its authoritarianism. Say me to tell it there is because the state is trying to infiltrate into all this for yourselves. A private plan for people you to want it wants to control, for instance, theaters repair to ours, uh, book markets, libraries, etc, etc. But nevertheless, this societies mother in license, this is for the well educated society and people are trying to keep for the private space to see more on more or less normal situation. And it looks us to print its some, some movies are pretty cool cause appear in this such a strange hospitality or in space. So yeah. Is there a difference . The threats like denunciations from your competitor else, but the nose of us, it is still, it is still Civil Society and i can repeat, it is not so hopeless and get the chance survives this period. But the, the space of deliberate to you for free to my snare rooms. This is through but if you wants to do something, you can try. And some people are trying to, to write to articles, to be vocal and to, to, to talk at least to talk about the constitution. Its, its not sales, or its not help does it by the fact that so many ordinary citizens a pay a willing to inform on each other on their colleagues and their families and friends. How destructive is that to the fabric of Russian Society destroys trust of the yes its true as to the trust is not so the strong side of the society is a trust each other. But some people simply prefer not to talk with the unknown persons. They prefer to talk to canal, so they are trying not to be so vocal sitting in congress for instance, to say prefer not to discuss political issues. This is true, but you know, its a same time uh again who, who wants to resist can try to do it. For instance, if there is such a new magazine which was initiated by the noble lord, its a mentor more out there is a title going to be in the corporation was gonna butcher foundation. And this is one of the attempts to, to, to, to, to create something to you, even in the circumstances. There was some problems with this magazine, but it is still in the field. So why not to transfer this all think uh, and this its, its a, its contributes a, some simple i hope for the future. When we talk about hope, lets also talk about the war in ukraine, which has, of course, exacerbated the repression level. Good cough leading russian sociologist says theres a high degree of support for the war highest among the educated and the educated in moscow does not surprise you. Yes, uh, is there a lot of surprising stories, especially in the field of mess, psychology and meso silver chain. And uh, you know, this is all about people who are afraid of changing their life. So they are trying to avoid problems with themselves. Which means that as a full flip, say, double thinking of a pretending the ward doesnt exist. So they can to avoid the mentioning fee to thinking about the box is a trained not to do it publicly, maybe the same people, but who they want to continue as a career, as for instance, in the university. So Something Like that. But in the private space, seen their quizzes like it wasnt sylvia time so they can discuss freely the Current Situation with the core, with some assessments which are not public. Lets see, this is more about privates assessments private life. So this is more about double thinking. You said, recent pay that pretend has made clear russia is fighting a permanent background war with the west. That argument gives his image ration on his way to maintain power. Does put in one that war in your view. Oh yes, she wants me. Shes the main initiator, im sure, is that, and is this personal, this decreasing . Put in was the main source of, of this war was this idea. Ology, which justifies for the russian id, was nation atlanta, in nationalistic and imperialistic ideas. The very archive that deals to the, for the tradition send the spiritual values, etc, etc. And she must invent. So the goal for the society. So its just not coping is more capitalism. And they invented some traveling this per month for it was the best, the best was also taking us. So we must defense our sales. And even though were expansion expansions, this is kind of, this is more about defense. And uh, the reason the reports re, so im sorry to interrupt you, reset the intelligence reports in the west of suggested russia intends to double the number of its troops on the border with the Baltic States and finland. And people have spoken officials, government officials in several countries have spoken of the fact that that could possibly be, im attacked by russia on the nato countries over the next few years. How plausible do think that these things is produced, p r. O to be so the to, to, to, to, to look so mighty. So impress if, uh, uh, and i guess he wants to create i am, shes a political philosophies. This is a part of russia for sure, and she wants to return as transferred, as he says. So this territories. And she doesnt care about the Baltic States freelance or, or pulled this as a lip service in my opinion. She will not have enough resources for one more flank, one more front uh, she simply wants to continue. This permanent poor was the best as a goal for the society, but at the same time, in the practical terms and apply it to her. And she doesnt want to, to take the, for instance, voltage stays because it will mean the real world was native. It would be much more serious. So thats just sort of a tuition of what is your brain . Does nato look weak to russia to put in a not so weak about to what was this very majority of the society, which in looks like a strong man, chloe, who is equal to tomato. Nice who is more of both a mature for the main enemy, United States of america, nathan, in europe, is kind of as such a line to of uh, of nato in the ends. United states. You said last month that despite all the new, clear se but rattling, but weve heard from fulton, they dont want the afraid of nuclear war. What makes you so sure of that uh, hold as they are not so as you settled the messenger stay on that. So youre going to use the technical uh, ukes. Uh, could be suicidal for uh for say, a resume for a country. Uh they want to leave for they want to enjoy this life and because of that. So yes, so the, so Nuclear Black mailing, shes quite impressive and quite effective as it is quite effective because its presented to preventive the west from giving the sophisticated weapons to ukraine. Yes. As a problem for actually. So thats a very conversations that talk about the nuclear, where it became such a light. My talk, we can do it. Why not . This is a main danger to proceed the domestic public so that it is possible. This is a danger. A british historian wrote recently that society is like russia, autocracies, dont bend, but they can break. Do you believe that after all, russia has broken, the soviet union broke. 1 the button wall came down, communism was denounced as a failed experiment. Under what circumstances do you think russia could conceivably come apart . Now . You know, when were talking about this, the future is the behavior of our leads. Theyre behaving like that according to the drover up in order to look after us as it is a slot. And in that sense, they hopelessly as they have enough resources to continue this work until the physical end of uh, putting them to his team. But uh, the resources could be depleted as an engineer ration though for petitions they will have to take responsibility for the country for the european security. And this is an interest of the west coast call and interest. So no mutual interest of the russians at west said to have a new generation of people who can recreate discounts for you from 0. This one, a full count because the services, im not to the terminal. So the bills are full. Russia, thats the alexa in a valley you talked about does exist somewhere down the line and youll view it exists in the, in the soul, southern brain. So for pro democratic russians as they are here and those they will be ready for changes when the time will count. Im very caustic of thank you very much for being on comforting, so. Thank you. Thank you for having me here. The the the, the who need them call is chance of a new has so much more to offer. And just following the beautiful, the funny you symmetry in the world. 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