A threat to pretend that competitor may be invisible in an informational field about the same time, quite mighty, and way to compress it for, for the parts of that population, and because of that, it was important to, lets see, eliminate him from the political field. So what youd like to live with the government that kills its political opponents. Unseen from moscow. Why the Southern States of warnings by nato officials about a russian attack over the next few years. What do they know . We dont the color slick of welcome to complex of excellence. Its much, its time for president ial elections in russia. Have like email put in once a 5th time thatd be improved and always gets once he once is, this is close to absolute power as it gets in russia. Yes. So this is one more step to choose absolute power. But so when were asking our sales, where was this turning point . For she seems as a decrease of michigan mazda, because the development of his interview was somewhere in the year 2020. When she called the referendum about some of the med, most of the constitution, both of may think about 0 and copious present initial terms. And now she is over to the president. And the after is that all the doors were open for any steps. Functions sites like to this war of february 22, 22 in questioning of no other means the same year. 2020 it doesnt have much to do with democracy. It doesnt. These uh elections, even mr. Perkins spokesman, dimitri pest golf, tell the New York Times last year, a president ial election isnt really a democracy. Its a costly bureaucracy. So why bother with this show . Because so this is one more attempt that demonstrates to the majority of the ref, can population that they, they are still the majority, which is obedience, indifference and ready to continue to accept the protest initiatives. And just as important as thats minority minority is a must understand that they are still minorities. Now they cant influence anything cause this country because we have a majority which is in flash, which supports pretend so nothing to do with this political system. We cant change and i think because of that, so this election search to no significant its the same times. Its just one more really rounds aflac way not to to repeat. So this kind of really into refresher as a legitimacy or for the all the correct oh, credible candidates of being eliminated way before the polling stations opened bar. Its not just in the anti war candidate. He was disqualified by the states because some traction for awhile. Was he a, a threat . Was he deemed the threat . Addition was squares attracted to the public who was liberal views. And you know, in the rush or millions of people for sharing to liberal pro the critic pro western and to pretend the vision of the world. And because of the my dish and was kind of a fault for this people wednesday sun and it for she and it was understandable thats a criminal decide. Its not till auction to participate because she coots, it undermines the feeling of absolutes, comes to the dish and around put him in a case of getting either no 56. 00, even 10 percent a man into it. It could means that the pretend hes not the only one who is so who deserves. So the supports and there are people with the enter your agenda, not to mention the terms of case. And addition include, demonstrates enter your agenda via television. And the code says, shake says and use so for the majority, which is still not connected to the tv set. So, so with no, they decided not to, not to risk. You run that slide risk. Im alexa. Nobody that in a prison camp in the optic circle, once he ever really an electrical threat to prove to or was it that he and others like him. Were never going to be allowed to get anywhere near that status. The only didnt have an opportunity to participate in the legal political process about. So when she does participate in the year 2013, during most goes mayors elections, he was extremely efficient. Astonishingly efficient for kremlin and death resistance. They decided to not to allow him to participate in any kind of like options. So he was the real threat to put to getting them to some moments. So moment to the needs of pasta, the whole political process reduced, busy. Now this is fine between the fall knee and approach him and is that sense even being can prison that when it was a threat to pretend that competitor may be invisible in an information field about the same time, quite mighty and square to compress it for, for the parts of the population and because of that, it was important to lets see, eliminate him from the political field. Do you by the story that he was about to be swapped for a kayla. So having time in germany, do you by that story . Of, we dont know the truths may be, will know nowadays, but it looks like global story. And in that sense, simple, it wasnt requested dance. Uh that she was, lets say maybe killed maybe by some maybe something else. So we have to wait for some results sofa. Shes still able to search. True. Maybe is the gym to clear up some good deals. And i found this family is pretty clear and his colleagues are pretty clear that the state did kill him. You wouldnt seriously argue with that, would you . I would say likely. So the experience of this regime demonstrates that its as possible. Lets remember as a case of st policy or in any other cases and put in the several times to repeat it and you are anxious, courier that the my pets realty color oriented. Or again, since people do that. But these and because of that, among people with uh, lets say liberal views, there is no doubt. Thats nobody put the keels. Uh, no, no, we dont have the controls if evidence of it so, but the feeling is very strong. Comp, russian Civil Society. We know that they tried and failed to kill him back in 2020 and we know because the millions listened to a government assassin describing his previously unsuccessful attempt to kill him about me. Little realizing that he was actually talking to him about the im being recorded by him at the time. So nobodys going to believe any government denials of a underscore. Uh, you know, which means what do we mean by nobody to because of the majority still prefers to believe freedom, main unofficial version. Or prefer us not to think about this. The horrible story you know, so low to for russian. So they didnt know about the place and things that i didnt know about that the so its not what i means it in this camp near arctic circle, but the majority prefers not to boulder itself. Uh uh, not to pay too much attention to, to this for us in order to keep for themselves mentally normal. Um this of tomorrow, but the majority prefers not to know anything about. Uh, like, uh, uh cuz you know, it is still with his dad. So through etcetera, and because of that, thats more about belief in disbelief amongst people with the normal view. So democratic fused record vibe from a lawyer at the human rights group. Memorial said, if they could kill no violently, they could kill anybody else. If hes right, where does all this and all the kennings all the political prisoners. Why does this end . I know the real threat is to political prisoners. Im sure we dont have a political position in the proper sense of the words right now because of a high level of professions kyras in the names of substitute new new orleans of last year or so for his existence. And i, i, i would say that unfortunately, for instance, people like to let him and cut them. It was a, really, a yes from could be under threats. And not everyone in dissidence community, but the main of the most local people from mazda political, a position, because barto was a political position as a broad sub parts. So for the leaders that are in prison, so for people who are in prison, so there was a real threat. I think unfortunately, you spoke of the value of this funeral about moral resistance among the population, people carrying flowers and candles to his memorials. How much of that moral resistance is left in russia . And it gets trends of sorts moral, because as i said, political position isnt so efficient right now. And this is more about a moral resistance and about political resistance. This people can fight as they dont want to find for power. They dont have for literacy, they dont have organizations which are totally liquidated by the regime. Even small in jewels about the dose of the most rates as a funeral and around it didnt go straight to that. This Civil Society still here with us different societies such which is very different than the passive. And the full of confirm is and Civil Society. The society of responsible citizens who to hold for the best for, for the country, for in a permanent order because of this war, theyve demonstrated that they are here. It was a huge step for people for folks who were going to to the funeral because of the, the face recognition system is working and sometimes policemen are coming to to the plants. So it was this people after a different kind of events, wolf funerals like the link flowers as a man, as a place, as of no man, there we go, for political repression, such cetera, et cetera. So if you want to see the so Civil Society in the rush, we can open for instance, the website over then for with the concrete statistics about persecutions, about the criminal prosecutions, administrative persecutions, extrajudicial persecutions. A lot of examples of these kind of problems for russian citizens, but she resist Civil Society, which is still ready to resist and ready to at least to think of all the constitution, think about so as a responsibility, collective responsibility you, you talked about values, legacy. Id like to know how long you think it will last, isnt it inevitable that as the years go by, that will be less and less opposition . Moral or real refreshing works best and it progressions efficient . Yes. For business work, but at the same time, no. This fatigue from room is also sheer. And in the case of a minor successor for a Civil Society and demonstration of what to use uh, some people cough, hesitating hor, pacific one for me. So as a count shares of you. So for this x, if a Single Society activities a so in that sense are actually isnt hopeless and ive seen it with just like and so the times we went, minerals, people were ready for changes when gorbachev key when government literature for took the power ends is be a bunch of population is also ready for changes, but so, you know, in current circumstances kind of a single though must came from the very top. And the was out a change in the 1st person, i guess. So the serious changes in russia are impossible. Veteran now extraordinary efforts and youve outlined some of them to, to clamp down on even the slightest infractions of this expanding penal code that the authors keep adding to. We hear of teachers in schools reporting a 1011 year old pupils to the Security Police books, a band people are arrested on the metro because they were reading something. But the fellow passengers didnt like every case pursued with the utmost vigor and brutality. And i suppose my question is, is the state really that in secure about its, hold on paul and its people, you know, it smarter bell Cell Development of the russian style. All sorts here is my would say this is not simply and assorted terrorism is more about a name, its high, but its authoritarianism. Say me to tell it there it is because the state is trying to infiltrate into all this for yourselves, a private life of people you to want. It wants to control, for instance, theaters repair to ours. Uh, uh, book markets, libraries, etc, etc. But nevertheless, this societies mother in license, this is for the well educated society and people are trying to keep for the private space to see more on more or less normal situation. And it looks us to print its some, some movies are poor who could appear in this such a strange hospitality or in space. So yes, is there a difference the threat slight denunciations from your competitor else . But nevertheless, it is still, it is to Civil Society and i can repeat it, it is not so hopeless and get the chance survives this period. But the, the space of labor to you for free to my scenario is this is through. But if you wants to do something, you can try and some people are trying to, to write to articles to be vocal, to, to, to talk, at least to talk about the constitution. Its, its not a dresser, its not help does it by the fact that so many ordinary citizens appear willing to inform on each other on their colleagues and their families and their friends. How destructive is that to the fabric of Russian Society destroys trust of the yes its true, its to the trust. Its not so the strong side of the society is the trust of each other. But some people simply prefer not to talk with unknown persons. They prefer to talk and also who they are trying not to be so vocal sitting in congress for instance, to say preferred not to discuss political issues. This is true, but you know, its a same time uh, again who, who wants to resist can try to do it. For instance, if there is such a new magazine which was initiated by the nova, laura, its a mr. Moore auto for is a title going to be in the corporation, was the trip foundation. And this one was, it attempts to, to, to, to, to create something to you, even in the circumstances. And there were some problems with this magazine, but it is still in the fields. So why not to transfer this . Ill think uh and uh, this its, its a, its contribute. So something, so i hope for the future when we talk about hope, lets also talk about the war in ukraine, which has, of course, exacerbated the repression level. Good cause leading russian sociologist says theres a high degree of support for the war highest among the educated and the educated in moscow does not surprise you. Yes. Is there a lot of surprising stories, especially in the field of mess, psychology in my social g. And uh, you know, this is all about people who are afraid of changing their life. They are trying to avoid problems for themselves. Which means that as a full flip, say, double thinking of a pretending the war doesnt exist. So they can to avoid the mentioning fee to a sinking ability to thats a trained not to do it publicly made is the same people, but who they want to continue as a career, as for instance, in the university. So Something Like that. But as a, a private spacing, their quizzes selected to us and sylvia time, so they can discuss freely the Current Situation with the core, with the some assessments which are not public. Lets see, this is more about privates assessments private life. So this is more about double thinking. You said, recent pay that pretend has made clear russia is fighting a permanent background war with the west. Best argument gives his image ration on his way to maintain power. Does put in one fact war in your view. Oh yes, she wants me, shes a man in the shade or im sure is that and is this personal, this decreasing . Put in was the main source of, of this war was this idea. Ology, which justifies for the russian id, was a nation, atlanta in nationalistic and imperialistic ideas. The very archive that deals to the, to the, to tradition, send us spiritual values, etc, etc. And she must invent. So the goal for the society. So its just not coping is more capitalism and they invented some travelling, this permanent for, it was the best, the best was also taking us. So we must defense our sales. And even though were expansion expansions, this is kind of, it is, this is more about defense. And uh, the reason the reports re, so im sorry to interrupt you, reset the intelligence reports in the west of suggested russia intends to double the number of its troops on the border with the Baltic States and finland. And people have spoken officials, government officials in several countries have spoken of the fact that that could possibly be attacked by russia on the nato countries over the next few years. How plausible do think that these things is suspicious. P r. O to be so then to to, to, to, to look so mighty, so impressive. Uh, uh, and i guess he wants to create i am, shes a political philosophies. This is a part of russia for sure. And she wants to return and strengthen as he says. So this territories it, she doesnt care about voltage states, freelance or, or pulled this as a loop service in my opinion. She will not have enough resources for one more flank, one more front. Uh, she simply wants to continue this permanent toward was the best as a goal for the society, but at the same time in the practical terms and apply it to her. And she doesnt want to, to take the, for instance, voltage stays because it will mean the real world was native. It would be much more serious. Does this work of attrition . That was ukraine. Does nato look weak to russia to put in a not so we could, but to what was this very majority of the society, which in looks like a strong man, chloe cruise equal to to tomato. Nice. It was more of both a human show for the main enemy, United States of america. Nathan in europe, is kind of a set of lines of uh, of nato, in the ends of United States. You said last months that despite old a new career, se but rattling, but weve heard from fulton, they dont want the afraid of nuclear war. What makes you so sure of that jose and also as you settled the messenger stand with that. So youre going to use those, the technical no ukes could be suicidal for uh, for say, a regime for a country. Uh they want to leave for they want to enjoy this life and because of that. So yes, so the, so Nuclear Black mailing, shes quite impressive and quite effective as it is quite effective because its presented to preventive the west from giving the sophisticated weapons to you, correct . Yes. As a problem for actually. So thats a very conversations that talk about the nuclear, where it became such a light. My talk, we can do it. Why not . This is a main danger to proceed the domestic public so that it is possible. This is a danger. A british historian wrote recently that society is like russia, autocracies, dont bend, but they can break. Do you believe that after all russia has broken, the soviet union broke up the button wall came down, communism was denounced as a failed experiment. Under what circumstances do you think russia could conceivably come apart . Now, you know, you know, when we have talking about this, the future ends, the behavior of our leads. Theyre behaving like that, according to the drover up in order to look after us. Because it is a flat and in that sense, they hopelessly as they have enough resources to continue this war until the physical end of uh, putting them to his team. But uh, their services could be depleted. And the next generation