Race . Are the good go welcome to conflict zone. Good morning, very good morning to you. My pleasure being here. The e. U. Is said to be more than just a single market, but a union of values including rule of law, freedom of democracy, respect for human rights. Poland signed up to those values when it voted to join the bloc, back in 2004. But now youre willing to veto the budget over an accountability, mechanism. So you sign up to the values when you join the e. U. , but you dont want to be accountable for breaching them. Oh, well, thats exactly what youre sad. First of all, the church is in a legitimate industry. You have no lito has been used, nor has he threatened to view many times before. There is nothing extraordinary in the fact that this of that government is not very happy with the solution to this. But i think that your e. U. Partners would, would beg to differ on that mr. The good go. And i just like to highlight some of what they have been saying actually about your actions. E. U. Leaders say that the mechanism that they have put forward, for example, is about providing reliability and trust in the budget. For example, the Prime Minister of the netherlands, mark rotella says that the e. U. Will not watered down the rule of law conditions. The e. U. Is a community of values, an overwhelming majority. 25 of 27 e. U. Member states. Dont have a problem with that. Why is poland the exception not . Well, let me, let me say, if there is somebody whos acting against the rule of law, it is not the polish government. It is the European Commission, it is the european parliament. All the majority, all the European Council and the chair of the presidency includes the proposed rule of law mechanism, is violation of the cheat its its a shame violation. Hold to cheat. Article 2, which specifies the values of the European Union should be respected, but you dont. But do you oppose it . But do you not on a legal basis or do you oppose it on a principle basis . Because because ultimately, lets have a look. For example, at the, at the, at the concerns that have been raised by the commission that they have been trying to take action on, on for years. For example, theyve raised concerns about various aspects of your justice reform, which began when your party came to power. They have raised concerns for digital independence. Theyve launched multiple infringement proceedings in 2017. It even launched article 7 proceedings against poland for clear risk of a serious breach of rule of law by poland. The independence of the court is, of course, a cornerstone of rule of law. Youre facing some really serious accusations, concerns that your party is taking over the body that selects you. Judges appointed close allies to the constitutional tribunal attempting to purge the Supreme Court and regional courts. You dont want to face accountability over those accusations, you wouldnt want to clear polands name. Thats not true. What youre saying. Thats not the description of what has been actually in program. So its not a, just a description. All due to a formal judiciary system. Let me say that the cheek is specified only one way of accountability. That is thats all there is to it article so of the term clearing with the conflicts and making elected bodies like doodle, paean, Commission High only by politically to prosecute jocz and to really exit q should. All the independents stay does this simply how to do just you keep focusing on the magen isnt about, lets talk about the substance of what is happening and call it just how you want to finish the argument in 2014, when for the 1st time, there was this idea of the rule of law, its in conflict with article 5, the principle of the conferral of the articles of the treaty of European Union. That is the European Commission and all europe. Institutions have only those competences know the words to become their, to a confidant of quantum explicitly to monitoring the judiciary system. Its not the competence of the new european. So you dont want anyone to Pay Attention research writers. You dont know, it seems you dont want anyone to Pay Attention to what is going on in poland, but id just like to highlight this one example for you and get your response to it. Because in your government established a Disciplinary Chamber which has the power to punish judges over court rulings, the judges have been appointed by your partys leadership. You have in a landmark ruling just this past spring by the European Court of justice. They criticize this body heavily. They have said that this is not an independent court. Theyve ordered its suspension. Furthermore, your country has passed what has become known as a muzzled law, which can be used to reprimand judges who call into question how fellow judges were appointed. In other words, you ordered to show all reforms, explain to me how disciplining or throwing out judges critical of your reforms, creates an independent judiciary and the country i think would use its is the best basis of why we do not want this mechanism to go into a fair, its not only that its a violation of the rule of law, but its nice on laurie. Its all misinformation of disinformation disciplinarian change. This is not, this is judges will do. Who reads that is not what is that is not what an independent polish Judges Association has said. That is not what Freedom House has said. Theyve said dozens of judges are facing possible penalties on often frivolous grounds. The Judges Association says, disciplinary action so close after prosecutors and judges criticize questioned or appear to negatively comment on the controversial justice reforms that even cited somebody who was, who was reprimanded for wearing a t. Shirt, which simply said an inscription constitution. How is that democratic . This is, this is all charges. Why you wont read all those negative opinions. I conclude. So you prosecuting yours. Just show me the text or theres piece of legislation. Any number of the article, how to grow up, when it says explicitly there, the judges will be punished or may be punished for the rulings. Its law there. The discipline of the chamber is occupied with the cases of in charge stealing something from a supermarket or the judge that was called junk writing. So thats misinformation on the world you use information. Number 2 is the European Court of justice. Im setting aside the trouble, im one of the European Court of justice is entitle to deal with something that does not its competence, but those are good for the matter. Did not suspend the discipline of the chamber. It was, it suspended the or put into the measures to be precise. All was just one small thing related to the question that was being asked, disciplinary action you ladies judges, you say that . Yes it is. That its an opinion, matricide not community. Id like to highlight, its also the Public Perception in your country that the independent a couple. I said, sorry, i dont think its an area that you dont care about the public. Youre not a democrat, i dont care. I dont care about a Public Perception because the public, they say that that resents knew that i was in the us. It is reforms when its based on a good part of a mostly question. Once again, their confidence in the judicial system has the question priest by 11 Percentage Points since you came into power since you started implementing these reforms, such dramatic, ive heard, im not afraid to stay, youre probably doing it with the film. I have a different date. The, the confidence in the judicial system, i wouldnt have been all times to know. Thats why we decided to make so so 1st of all you say this, this is our problem. This is an internal problem of problem. Ive not interfering with the judiciary system in germany. There is a lot of what i dont like you judicial the system in germany, but thats not my problem. Were talking about poland and the message that i seem to be getting from you is that you believe that your courts are absolutely and completely independent. So then let me put it to you and ask you, why would the head of law and justice say the following . He said quote, the reforms to the Constitutional Court were needed to ensure. There were no legal blocks on Government Policies aimed at creating a fairer, a condom. He basically admitted your party does not want the courts to get in the way of what it wants. In other words, eliminate the dish areas, check on the law and justice power. Well, i would not comment on this. I want you to tell me if there is anything in this system actually existing, but some independence of judges, they cannot be dismissed to be comfortable for duty. They have those responsible for the security dependence. I come, he said, and the reasons i know that the whole problem with the constitution started with the previous government, you dont know government is for the worse and pointed of to find they consist in the design. So they had the majority of the judges who money below the policy. Right. So of the next government then most of you could be free is that you look lets concentrate on the situation right now. And i actually, id like to move on to one other very Important Pillar of democracy, and that is a free press providing an essential check on power. In fact, days after the election in july, in your country, a new media strategy of quote republic as a sion limiting Foreign Investors and polish media and concentration limiting the number of Media Outlets that any one group can own was announced. Reporters without borders says the real goal is to influence the editorial policies of the media. Why should anyone believe that this isnt just an attempt by your party to tighten its grip . The media into the most diverse leads is inside a new sense of the there is more to the already exceed, produce media. Then from in the, in germany, in belgium, in most of this country, the media are of one teen in poland. That is why picture of me thats point number one of the 2 is that in some 80 percent of the media companies, we dont think its iraq, which you will soon learn. If that is true, look at what happens when your government gets involved in the media. For example, the public media in 2015, your party of pass legislation that allows the government to appoint or dismiss the executives in charge of public t. V. And the radio broadcaster the o s. C e has said now it fails to ensure editorial independence. It said that the public broadcaster, for example, in the most recent election, failed in its legal duty to provide balanced and impartial coverage. Rather, it serves as a Campaign Tool for the incumbents. Critics say the public media has become a mouthpiece of your government. Is that what the country now has to look forward to under review, poland is ation of the private media. There is as much truth in it as it was about your comment on the judiciary system. Its all based on disinformation. Its based on its based on data from the o. S. C, e. It is based on data from reporters without borders. Not the public media from the very beginning that is from 98. 00 to 89. 00, the public radio was rather supportive of the governments whatever the governments were there was whether there would be an economist or liberals all over. So there is nothing strange about it. The public media in most european countries, you doubt public media also support supportive of the coverage which does not mean they are not objective or theyre not in portion. If you look at the media are now colder, about 72 percent of the meat in thai government, and 30 percent or so. And by that you mean independent that for example, even blair, but that is regarded as too much is in the object of the vicious do you want poland to become like france for example, when there is only one opinion and all again mr. The good go where were talking about, you call it . No, no, were talking about judo. I would like to move on to another issue. Lets talk about a domestic issue. Womens reproductive rights. Your country has seen its biggest protests in recent years. Hundreds of thousands of people on the streets after the constitutional tribunal said, it would outlaw abortions in cases of severe fetal abnormalities. Its come under fire, not only because of its substance, but also because of the way that it was reached. Your party pushed this measure through or tried to push this mother measure through the Parliament Years ago, but it was very unpopular. So now its going through the courts. Youve come under fire for a lack of a democratic conversation on the issue. Did you think that you could just let this slip through . But this is the in charge of the National Matter of moral issues. Are not the question of europeans or just race. Thats, lets not go around them get lets, lets agree on that. You may dislike to, but its not your business. 1st of all, i do not know what womens rights are. You cannot find a womens rights in the universal declaration of human rights that its nothing about. Well, womens rights are our human rights laws are going to show, are they not of hugo . Womens rights are not india purely conventional human us womens rights are not in the charter of fundamental rights. Can you show me a signal paragraph that meant there is something about womens rights in these 3 basic documents . Lets bring it back to whats, whats happening there . Because theyre just not, it is nothing new. There was nothing there been inside i saw. So i do not know exactly what did you i went through followed abortion are bullshit. Bullshit is not a question of the european or international law, but im talking about this democratic process in your country on this issue. Approval for your government is dropping dramatically. As we mentioned protesters on the streets, just government has not published the ruling, which would bring him back in a worse. And thats a calling card to polling data from counter. In the past couple of weeks, the government appears to be stalling when it comes to implementing the decision. I mean, it was, if you are going to backtrack and see if you are now, if you, if you are desist sims, to accept information and you really cannot talk with you because it makes no sense. My point was that even if you dislike this law, its not your problem is not your problem and its not the legal problem. Its the whole problem. The verdict was announced by the constitutional code. You know, i thought the ruling of the constitution tigerman should be to respect it, but the problem with not some rulings can be accepted to another who must not be yourself. So lets be consistent, mr. The have congress of the constitutional tribunal to be respected, evolves. How about, dont really know where you want to see the, the argument, the reasoning behind the legal argument there to refute the reasoning behind disability. Let me tell you that the previous president s of the comes to show you more well, russia agreed with dissolving because the building couldnt be disproved. Mr. The good guy, i want to get into additional good. Again, were going to, were talking about the democratic process, and i want to get to one more issue of why we have to go to europe. You would probably should go bananas, but they cannot change. This is in accordance with the polish law, polish constitution, or any other mr. Goodbar temporary. Mr. Google, how about the rights of people also in their country . A president do that has called the l g. B, t, movement and ideology. More dangerous than communism of the election, who signed a family charter of proposals including pledges to prevent a gay couples from marrying or adopting children and to ban teaching about l. G. B t issues and score. They hear men rights of l d. B t. People in poland, do they not matter . Well, its the same story over and over again. The conversation is absolutely nonsense because youre out with your food already going to be all of those hot through all or 2 or cliches. And so i would hope, well, how about how about the words of, of politicians that are in your law and justice party. For example, youre now Education Minister said on the campaign trail, stop listening to this idiocy about human rights or, a quality these people. And by these people, the l. G. B. T. , people are not equal to normal. People who said, thats ok. Do you dont know . You know, its, its, its out of the culprits. It was first of all, can you give me a single example of a homosexual person who has been persecuted or discriminated against because hes homosexuals. Shes a homosexual. Well, you have about a single example. Mr. Goodnow, you have about 100 towns in the region across, across poland. Early a 3rd of the country that have passed resolutions declaring them free of l. D. P t. Ideology. Theyre clashing with the e. U. Because you have the or so the funded line saying l d b t free zones are soo man of the free zone. They have no place in our union. Is it your governments duty to stop and ensure the safety of all of its citizens, including minorities isnt . Isnt that what fundamental values are for . This is becoming more and more hopeless. Weve been really thereto several times. There are no aged between 3 zones in polands. European parliament sparse. Dozens of resolution against theyll be duty free zones in poland. Osu left from them, lyon, g, b, t 3 zones in poland. Read my lips, there are no o. G. T. T. Free zones in poland. How can i, what is it . So gifford calls for you guys to accept a simple fact. What is the problem . The problem is, the only thing that happened was that one of the aged between activists took pictures, which he sort of made up right and distributed all around, and then missing the good go. National media, you could see this is edgy beauty for of this is a good go. He explained it was an artistic performance. This is a good example. You are accusing me and my government because of this, our istic performance briefly before we go, id like to ask you, weve addressed protests on the streets. Weve talked about how poland is at odds with the e. U. Over values and, and just briefly tell us, are you concerned that your government is putting poland on the path . So isolation, im conce