And senior european leaders say theyre looking forward to working with joe biden in a new spirit of cooperation. So long to the point we are asked diplomacy post trump, will joe biden make the world a better place . Or thanks so much for being with us and my guests here in the studio are stacey bivins from de w. C. U. S. Election team. Who says joe biden must realize that americas allies are looking for a team player a noughts. A team leader also with us is jamie fly from the German Marshall Fund to form a visor on Foreign Policy to president george w. Bush. Who argues that america will remain divided and distracted under President Biden, and that will harm its ability to partner with allies and a very warm welcome to khrushchev show. Shes Diplomatic Correspondent of the berlin daily times should be google. He argues that under President Biden relations with germany and europe might be a little less abrasive bubs demands for greater commitment from berlin and brussels will remain. Thank you all 3 for being here today. Theres plenty to talk about. So lets get going. Stay, see, is there any doubt in your mind that joe biden has won the president ial election . Not at all. The numbers are just not, and president chavez favor, and i think he knows that. But as my angelou said, when somebody shows you who they are, believe them and he was a sore winner, he was a sore leader. And now he is an extremely sore loser. Who is essentially spitting in the soup as hes leaving the numbers just dont support him still being in office and what hes doing is potentially detrimental. Ok, jamie, you are well connected in republican circles. How would you gauge the mood among the Party Faithful . I think its a mixed right now because we obviously have a republican president who is not refusing to leave yet he doesnt have to leave office until january 20th, but hes indicating that he perhaps thinks that he is going to serve another 4 years. So thats obviously very concerning. I think even so many Congressional Republicans on the flip side, this is a president who did much better than anticipated and brought more than 72000000 americans out. So vote for him. And honestly has charted, i think, a path forward for the republican party, even in 4 years in terms of some electoral gains in key constituencies. And so people, thats why i think you see many Congressional Republicans reluctant to push him out because they think that donald trump is going to be part of the conversation for the next 4 years. Ok, christopher christopher, emotional. How much of a fresh start . Do you expect from washington, do you expect a transition . Well, something much more profound. A transformation . Well, at the moment, joe biden will be inaugurated as the 46. 00 president , but we are not yet out of the woods. I think its extremely extremely, but it is somehow concerning and even dangerous that the president is not giving and not admitting. And that sets a very bad example. It undermines institution, you say dangerous. So normal thing should be, as we have seen, for example, the transition from bush to obama, or from obama to donald trump. That when the election result is clear, you invite your successor to come to the white house to discuss what is from your point of view. The situation and the most important problems you allow your future companions to get see if you can service briefings to be informed. So you try to have a smooth transition in order to secure security of the United States and in a broader sense as a democratic world. And that is missing, that is why it is dangerous and that is just decided that this transition doesnt have, but he also does damage to the institutions because half of the population in United States, or at least half of the voters might belief him, said he considers himself to still be the elected president. And that undermines our belief in the democratic process in the state of law and in the division of power, which is a set. What is different in our countries, western countries from dictatorships. Ok, thats the mood in washington at the moment face to presidency like to joe biden has already been speaking to some World Leaders. His message is unequivocal. Were back. Were going to be back in the game. Its not american alone. Number one, i got had the opportunity to speak with 6 World Leaders and response has been very jake, were all looking forward to being able to from Great Britain, france, germany, etc. I feel good about america is back, says joe biden. Its not a boast right or wrongly in coal country for my me when Michael Jordan returned to basketball. And so, you know, he was the best player in the league and, you know, people admired his leadership and his fight. And when he came back to the team, people were a little bit weary. Things had moved on. He was gone for a bit, playing baseball, and the team shifted. Some people had gone away. Some people had taken more of a leadership role. And all of a sudden this great playing says her little boy is already not saying his data. What im saying is that the make up of the landscape has changed. And so he wants to come back and be at the head of the table. Thats what he said, but when you listen to uncle americal saying that she wants germany and europe to work side by side with the United States and European Commission, president ursula Burns Alliance saying that she wants that europe should take more initiative. I dont think that europe now the European Union wants to be the robin to americas batman. I think they want to be an equal partner in helping to reshape the world in order to try to shake off some of this. Trump ism, thats made its way overseas and to try to strengthen the importance of multilateralism. And these Democratic Institutions that the United States once supported, joe biden chose to speak to americas best friends. Its transatlantic karmazin. These conversations that joe biden has been having, hes not playing it safe. Well, it is a very different set of friends. If i take Great Britain which united kingdom, which means boris johnson, he was a better on the reelection of donald trump and hope for a good traits of court. And now he has to change to flip sides very quickly and say, you know, joe biden, im on your side. I want to be a good ally. Thats very different position from, lets say france or germany who are reluctant relationship with President Trump. And were very much hoping that there comes a change in the United States. If i look at my country germany, i think the biggest seeds of the biggest mistake would be that we again hope that the president changes and everything will be fine. We just cant continue with our set of policies, and this will be a huge mistake. We of course, we expect that there comes change from washington, but we also have to give some change from berlin to make it work. And if we just think the change will come from washington, we dont have to adapt or change, then we run into deep disappointment in a few months. So i hope that the German Government has a plan what to offer to President Biden in order also to ask for some changes on the u. S. Side. Ok, well find out a little bit more about the plan in just a 2nd. We just mentioned chancellor Angela Merkel and she this week reiterated the Transatlantic Partnership between the u. S. And europe is irreplaceable. She also listed the challenges that the partnership is facing and we give the United States of america in germany as part of the European Union must stand together to meet the great challenges of our time side by side in the severe test of the corona virus pandemic, side by side in the fight against Global Warming, and its global repercussions in the fight against terrorism. Side by side for an open World Economy and free trade. Because these are the foundations of our prosperity on both sides of the atlantic. Prosperity on both sides of the atlantic. But lets be honest, america is frustrated with jim just hearing, tell us about the frustration and well see what you know germany can possibly do. Well, i think the one last thing, the legacy of the trump ministration, when it comes to germany, will be that he has shifted the us conversation about what is expected of allies. And germany has been perhaps the leading example of trump rallies, receiving criticism from the president for not spending enough on defense for being a free rider. And i honestly think that thats a good legacy for the relationship. I dont think trump often approached the issue with the right tone, but i think americans given the pressures that existed even prior to the pandemic, want to see allies that are paying their fair share that are stepping up and being partners not just in word, but also in deed, and thats going to be the real, a real test for the, by the ministration they want to repair relations. But i think the biden team also wants to see germany continue to make progress in defense spending on issues like north stream to, with russia. Doing more as the u. S. Confronts china. And at some point, if germany doesnt do enough, the bottom ministration may end up being critical, just like the administration was not just at the time it ministration. Because the Top Administration had no tact, they treat at their end and their friends like they were enemies. And thats a problem. So when youre trying to, he didnt, he had more of an isolationist kind of view of the world anyway. And, and i feel just the way he spoke about merkel that he has a problem with strong women. And so sometimes his policy, his rhetoric was more of an attack on her than on what the country should be doing. Of course, partnership should contribute more. And in the way that the world is now, the United States cant carry the load, but you have to have tact. You have to have a diplomat, you have to be diplomatic. You have to be respectful because you need your friends in order to rally in order to move in the world for work. You know, but i think we have to seize a situation together with whats happening in germany. And america has been chancellor for many years and she is on the way out next year will have a new coalition. And if you read together the outcome of the american of the u. S. Election and see general election, i think we can expect the next government, which from todays perspective talking is probably green and black mean sea Christian Democratic Union was a chance that is a green party they will be more critical in their relationship with china and the relationship with with russia. A sudden these agreements are not eager to spend more on defense, but here again, i think the perspective to discuss it as a way, what are the americans expect you from us is not see best way we should say what is in germanys interest and what is your partner expect what trump in not very good terms. Threatened and what probably will ask for is also the hope of france, of poland, of the Baltic States of the netherlands. And our partners in the defense issue of germany is very much isolated. Its not just a u. S. President who is asking that germany should shoulder more responsibility. Its also a huge part of our european partners. And i think in order to convince the german public, that is a better way to have to debate it. We shouldnt be in positions where we are close to a minority, and that is, for example, Energy Policy was not stray into the pipeline with russia. It is certainly defense and a few other issues. And it would be, for that reason, it would be rather smart to come up with an offer to come up with. And we want to read noga shaped stream to make sure that ukraine, poland, they are not well that im not left out of the game. Were willing to do more in defense. We will not do 2 percent in the next year. Certainly not such a clear, but were willing to do more. We, on the way we have an offer in china, russia, germany has indicated that they feel that they agree with you. When you talk European Commission president was talking about europe needs to take more initiative. I think that thats what shes talking about. Bringing more ideas to the, to the table and not just being a passive partner, but at being an active one, youre absolutely right stacey, but it should be mostly lip service. If i look, how do i make that happen . The social democrats, i know, we all know that they are not eager to do that once they are asked to do so. There is the willingness of the thomas law and of c. Minister of defense. She was even more outspoken. Have to make a texan, its not just that you save willing, so there is no political will. Spring to me because im, im interested, we, you, we had the joe biden said america must lead you lead in one direction. Well then joe biden is to reintegrate america into multilateral institutions. He wants to tackle global issues like Climate Change. His team also talks about picking up where the trumpet, ministration left off on china and working more with allies. So these are all topics which i think theyll be a lot of heads nodding in europe and here in berlin. Support of that sort of agenda. My question about setting aside the tactics where i think President Trump often inserted himself on necessarily into our allies politics and made it difficult for them to work with us. Joe biden take a different approach, but Americans Still want to see results, and thats the unfortunate we had 8 years of the obama administration. Obama was beloved in berlin, greeted by the crowds of thousands of people at the sago soil, a very close relationship with chancellor merkel. But he still privately criticized germany and other allies as free riders. He was frustrated by the same things. The president was frustrated about president , just vocalize those concerns and started to produce some results. And so i think the, the question is going to be after a change in tone will abide, administration be able to produce results on any number of these issues. And i think thats what americans across the political spectrum are going to be looking for. Given that the biden team seems convinced that this different approach will also be successful and produce results. Joe biden clearly and understandably believes his primary domestic responsibilities. Protecting americans from the corona pandemic, he apparently sees protecting the planet from Global Warming, is his number one Foreign Policy challenges and wants to get serious on the very 1st day of his presidency. And bring the usa back into the paris Climate Action agreement. Climate. Your Global Warming is a nexus of threat to humanity. We have an obligation to do as a leading scientist in the world. We dont have much time. Like donald trump job is a supporter of the iran nuclear deal. The democrat has several times that he wants to enter the agreement from which withdrew on trade policy is likely to continue his confrontational stance with china in the hope that this will bring jobs back to the u. S. And boost domestic revenue. He is unlikely to lift the special tariffs immediately. What does joe biden election victory mean for World Politics . Is a good question. Big question so much to talk about stacey. Before i came into the studio, i wrote down, the conflict comes to mind around the world at the moment, afghanistan, yemen, ethiopia, libya, syria, pakistan, ukraine, i could go on. Yes. Joe biden, going to make the world a safer place. Well, i think that hes at least going to try, and i think that hes going to try by trying to Work Together with allies that donald trump pushed, pushed aside. I think the challenge that joe biden is going to face is a similar challenge. The one, the barack obama faced, he wanted to work with allies, he wanted to lead, but the American Public is still in a disengagement mood. Its not just trump voters that are less interested in whats going on in the world if you looked at polling prior to the elections. Very few americans were factoring in Foreign Policy when they went to the voting booth. And so i think hes going to not just reach out, need to reach out to allies, but also need to convince the American People that these are crises that require American Leadership. Especially when it requires some sort of economic or military commitment from the United States and countries working together, nations working together, what about what is what is going to be thinking as he looks on and sees all these events unfolding in the us at this point in time biden is not a good message for putting because donald trump was weak for reasons we dont totally know, made him was a terrific person. For example, theres these kind slogans. So it will be a world for putin. But generally, i would say as the conflicts you mentioned, i mean, the biden is a good president. We dont make that judgment whether there will be war in syria in 5 years in libya or not even more important question is, will the w