Ready. If anybodys been trapped in an elevator 20 minutes could be a pretty long time right ed alone. Trapped in an elevator. For 20 minutes not knowing whats going to happen not knowing where you are since of sensory deprivation. Your life. 20 minutes out an hour not the only guy on the intercom is nothing i was trying to get you out because i was keeping you. Is your communication. Less existence. Do you think a lot more of the belief. But it is not in the room. It will not end until every terrorist group. Has been found. And defeat. That they can last more than one term. So you know empires and decline resort to torture and i think it gives them the and mission of mouse street and dominance and control by torturing essentially we blind ourselves but we could in fact create a Democratic Society which actually has consistently valuable and effective techniques to fight terror the fact that we dont is more an expression of our own exotics and fears. The socalled enhanced interrogation techniques used by the us officials were basically designed as techniques to break down the human mind and therefore also the body because they are very connected. And leave no physical traces in the cynics. Stream li. Destructive practice torture. On of course and those who receive this pain and suffering but also on the society that becomes a society of cruelty what weve done is weve not so much lost the war on torture as weve won the war on democracy and that through terrorizing a population over a period of decades said that theres nobody in this country who didnt grow up with some bogeyman some danger 1st it was communism then it was terrorism. Obviously. And many facets of what is generally called the cold war. Which communist policy is force. But there are no ties as to see a gauge of any political activity or any intelligence to it. It was not approved at the highest level. There was a concern that emerged in the 1st part of the cold war in the late 19th for us that the soviets had cracked the code of human consciousness. That they knew how to apply pressure upon the human mind and break the human mind and it was that that set off this whole pursuit that lead ultimately to the creation of the doctrine of psychological torture this was a time of for the brainwashing scare there were show trials in Eastern Europe many hungry in poland which. Aroused a lot of concern in the west because people seemed to be confessing to crimes that they had been committed. By out of concern in the west because people seemed to be confessing to crimes that they hadnt committed. Most importantly was the trial of cardinal munsons in hungary and thus he was already in an afterword to quite famous because he was known for having resisted the nazis and their occupation of hungary. And then after the word he became the card on the primitive church. They arrested him they can find him this is a being an aristocrat he became a kind of target of the regime. And then he was put on trial work from berkeley for incest to the charges against him and there was this fear in washington that prince of the church in absorb a man known for his courage under nazi pressure that if he could be broken the clearly the soviets were session of techniques. Says michael pars it starts in 1950 this was a project of that involved a 1000000000. 00 a year. There was a formal creation a british than an american operation at the highest levels in order to mobilize the naval scientists of these 3 countries in order to kind of crack the code of the consciousness. On the walls for medical doctors for Cornell University medical school in new york city. They got access to some of the more classified material on people that escaped from the soviet union and now been tortured in the so that you know. Wolf was a very well known neurologist he had a personal relationship with allen dulles the head of the cia and with the human ecology find wolf offered to this cia a sense lay a friends in order to Study Questions of brainwashing what they discovered. Was 11. 00 of the 2 foundational techniques in the cia doctrine of psychological torture they discovered. Selfinflicted pain if you force a human being to stay in a certain position especially a position that puts a little stress on weight comments or muscles or bones joints it doesnt take very long for the pain involved to become absolutely excruciating but nobodys laying thank you finger on you you are doing it to yourself. That was one of the its the over technique they discover was from the date of the by medical research. It was work it was the chair of the psychology and the go to university in canada. Students volunteered to participate in the study of Human Behavior under extreme prolactin monotony their hands and arms were softly covered to muffle the sense of touch our sides seem to biomass comfortable barons life and yet it was impossible for most of these duties to take it for more than 24. 00 or 48 hours sensory deprivation really is a way of producing dreama not its are a bush variance getting worse and worse some brossard be talked about cruelty. What they said was that the degree of boredom became intolerable and it was one sided said as bad as anything that the hitler ever done to any of us such as to his victims as we know from almost any basic medical understanding human contact is what makes us human and the lid and the ables a person to have a sense of normalcy in their lives and when they are completely isolated from any human contact and often kept in this sensory isolation you will literally easily become severely mentally impaired. Became a pig consoled the cia and continued to work for them is really good for general modern psychological torture. That project funded another guy mcgill named dr who on camera. What camera on the album were and since it was. It was just a monstrous. Thing when the 1st psychotherapy i was just crying crying crying. It was hopeless i didnt know what to expect they said i was going to the psychiatric court. You had that on. Camera and thats when cameron yes i met him and we were always terrified of him why we also fear we all had a fear of him and we didnt want to him to notice us because whatever he did it would never there was a pace and put them the patient was always screaming these are the days and i was a professor ewen cameron was a very famous psychiatry is t. Was head of the American Psychiatric association and the world Psychiatric Association he was the top of the field at the same time he seemed pretty much willing to do anything and to the cia to find a doctor who didnt have limits in a nearby capital with lots of patients to work with lies to us as subjects was somebody they were interested in supporting patients would come in. With ordinary and psychological emotional problems theyd sign their waivers and then know a bit subjected to this bizarre version of extreme sensory deprivation isolation for for up to a month. One of his favorite things was he had a sort of a football helmet with a tape recorder in it that would play a tape and look up to 500000 times say things like my mother hates me and he would let the brain with rogue stench of deprivation and kind of psychological emotional assault well. Whats working i mean its garbage. What he did was he would put people under massive electro shock and he would give it to them in a prolonged basis along with what he called sleep their baby his ideal was once you wake the brain clean you could wipe out the sight of the a buried behavior in the bad ideas the ideas that were messing up peoples minds and you could program in other ideas. I was 1st hospitalized. I was about 16. 16 half the doctors closely into its leap there. And that was it for about 3 weeks in in this sort of a deep sleep but i dont remember getting up to go to the washroom i dont i just remember that the doctor came in occasionally to feed me and that was it and then suddenly after a while there was another case and it came in and it was an older one insists like in the other bed when i started to wake up i saw these patients and these patients were in tube some of them they had earphones and headphones i dont know if they did any of that to me because when i was the 1st 3 weeks i dont know what happened but this was the pattern in. This years doctrine of psychological torture that the developed through research in the dark of the 1950 s. And was codified in the could work on intelligence and target and then all. As to basic technique so much all the rest of the procedure is to run one is sensor deprivation and the other is selfinflicted pain. The cia trained allied agencies in the techniques so in effect you know knowing about dissemination about if you just send these techniques to other armies could you take an ordinary individual like a drafted or recruit and make a person become an effective interrogator. And it seems that milgram experiment was like in part of this project. When i learned of incidents such as the destruction of millions of men women and children perpetrated by the nazis in world war 2 i was a possible ask myself that ordinary people will courteous and decent in everyday life can actually sleep in you mainly without any limitations of conscience. Under what conditions would a person Obey Authority who commanded actions that went against conscience these are exactly the questions that i want to investigate it yeah university. At the moment sperm a very simply was similar to torture this was one not all the research weve been describing is the impact of interrogation upon the subject. Had another agenda the impact of interrogation upon the interrogator. If he were to indicate a wrong answer you would say wrong then tell him the number of balls youre going to get and. Then give him the punishment. Then read the correct word pair once he got an ordinary people who fit by all the regular scales very normal americans and then he subjected them under false color to just doing what he called an educational experiment in trying to encourage people to apply ever higher voltages as a false patient kept on getting making mistakes here will tell you that. In fact milgram was able to encourage at least in his 1st experiments i think close to 70 percent to go on to apply highly dangerous and sometimes fatal shocks im not going to get that mans thinking that. I need that. You know what i mean i mean that you do i learn a likes it or not we must go on until one of our little 5 refused to take the responsibility and again i learned that. We need under our. International essential if you continue teaching this to money life here and i mean do you do you get it wrong you just do money and lives. I mean im going to take responsibility for any happens that i dont know im responsible for anything that happens here continue. Next the slow lap dance track music answer plays. Out and 95 mile. Dance. He did this simply with a very simple thing putting the person behind a wall and having a person with a White Lab Coat telling them that they needed to continue very ordinary people can be influenced by situations and its one of the implications of both the milgram experiment the zimbardo explore. The Stanford Prison Experiment was i think a unique attempt to answer that question of what makes some people behave in a good way but what makes some people behave in a bad way and so the idea was. Lets. Lets find an evil place and present everywhere in the world the evil places and lets kill this evil place was only good people. To get the students involved i had convinced the Palo Alto Police department to make mock a rash of all the students who were going to be prisoners and then they came down to the basement of sanford Psychology Department the place where the prison study was done. The idea is prison is made to feel inferior insignificant worthless the most important thing is you take away the name they become a number and of course given they have smocks it with no underpants behind is showing up my 1st hour in there it was humiliating it was also abrupt was quick it was just you know take them off put this on and then i got dusted with baking soda which was supposed to be easy to delouse or and i was living in the cell what zimbardo did was a very cheap doc off of. The kind of thing that milgram was doing not only zimbardo. I think you know the guard called john wayne believed that ethics dont matter is the environment as are the sissel and thats not true all life is real life. We needed to get tougher with the prisoners. And it could well be that we were instructed by the experimenters to get tough in fact i dont think we considered ourselves to be a subject of the experiment we were merely a tool of the researchers to get the results they wanted from the real subjects which we thought were the prisoners. And i decided to become the nastiest prison guard that i could make myself where i can buy their own car to get it is running or you want to leave and i. Will yeah yeah a lot of them will know. And then youre going to use my. 345. I was responsible for coming up with all these routines that i would put the prisoners through where id have them stand in a line recites their numbers do pushups do jumping jacks. I had never once stopped to think that these prisoners were suffering any harm or any damage were not are not beating anybody were just sort of applying psychological pressure on them not yet by. Their will their you harm me how did that. How does it harm just the feeling that a moment people can be like and yeah and let me in on some knowledge that ive never experienced 1st hand i read about it ive read a lot about it but ive never experienced it firsthand ive never seen someone turn that way and i know youre a nice guy you know well you and this what would you have. I dont know it might play out spectacularly in the military so the connections would be much further down the road it would be particularly. In the iraq war and in the setting up of get mo and all of that. And by the time you get to 2001 its already this cultural artifact and so it is going to be picked up by. By anyone for any permanent. Kind of people held accountable are not there because they stole because. They are not common criminals. Theyre enemy combatants and terrorists who are being detained for acts of war against our country and that is why different rules have to apply. And finding. The continuity is extraordinary. If you look at a sketch of the cubicle and of the student volunteer at Mcgill University and then if you look forward to 2002 when the 1st al qaeda suspects are being confined at camp x. Ray a month on im over there and all those gloves and earmuffs that look like god just like that 1957 sketch. After 911. 00 all of us working at ph our realized that there would very likely be a huge problem of interrogation gone wild meaning torture cruel inhuman and degrading to treatment. The use of extreme isolation was one other range of techniques that were employed by a fish oils interrogators and so forth literally starting all the way back in 2002 for many many days and that is just unbelievably destructive. And they began confining entente they moved to. Having psychologists do interviews with patients as cover initial flaws individual sources of trauma and security and then they they also discovered because they were done and with muslims. Muslim males are. Upset by nudity and also by female physical contact and fear of dont. Race has always played a role in american torture its the american torture techniques are part of old military punishments punishments that were used on slaves. And. And you might find that strange but there was one area where slaves were never whipped but used clean techniques on them they didnt leave marks and that was if youre going to sell a slave because a slave that had wit marks means that they were not going to obey and so a clean slave was got a higher price. The cotton industry in the southern delta states of the United States depended completely on torture. Over the course of 4 decades human beings by using their bodies as a technological form as a technological machine were able to multiply by 8 times the amount of cotton an individual person could pick in a single day so the use of torture. Is absolutely tied at the moment from the very canny. That these kinds of cases. Many people in the system. Of the people who are imposing these conditions believe that ordinary punishment is too good for these people and a lot of it is about the other to solve them religiously ethnically. Nationally culturally its easier. That it would be to some wood from your own community to do that. So. In one tunnel mo. As secretary defense rumsfeld appointed a commander Jeffrey Miller whose job it was to extract information and Geoffrey Miller made up a cd or staffed it and in flew to iraq and under the. With the permission of the commander there general sanchez the then camp and training sessions for the interrogators and the stuff at abu ghraib prison where he transmitted the guantanamo and techniques to the abu ghraib stuff basically the restraints were removed and they were told to get results the thing that became so clear is that what the United States was doing was not a secret it was hidden in plain sight it wasnt really until the photographs from abu ghraib were released which were just you know the tip of the iceberg of what was actually happening that people in this country began actually talking about it. But we didnt know what it was exactly the right thing to do and if i had to my command over that it was exactly the right see course of action. That we didnt satisfy them. Very similar not all of them i can get into whether one does 1600 of them weve only seen i think about 20 maybe 30 is 1600 and they say the worst ones. Are the ones we have seen so and yes they were violating. Military regulations and what they were doing but. They were operating within a system in which they were conditioned or structured in order to violate those laws when you arrived at the grave where you aware of what had happened there. Almost immediately after we arrived we were briefed that there was misconduct but we werent given details and the interrogators that i knew who had been there during that time didnt they didnt talk about it so we we didnt know if i learned everything through the news. We understood the geneva conventions to mean that absolutely you know you knew you couldnt you couldnt harm anybody in your care that your primary responsibility was there will be in rather than putting you in distress but then we were confused and then of you know of course we got these memos from the Justice Department and from the pentagon. Authorizing the use of much more harsh techniques. We started dockin