Still fall short of last springs lockdown for now as the world waits for a vaccine can the virus be stopped our title coronavirus hotspots are europes cities out of control. On. The minimum. And it is a question or 2 introduce our guest starting with martin meyer he works as a science editor for the german radio broadcaster george folk and he believes despite scientific progress the pandemic will prevail therefore we will just didnt get along with further restrictions and its a pleasure to introduce reshad frida he works as a science editor for the berlin daily tug and he says we are only at the beginning of the cold and indorsed. And there is a real danger of things getting out of hand in some places. And im pleased to welcome our colleague because shes a science reporter and editor here. And shes convinced. Well get us through the pandemic. So let me ask you martin. The pandemic will prevail as you said in your Opening Statement sounds pretty ominous we have worldwide nearly 40000000 cases now 800000 new infections per day here in europe how worried should we be i think we should be worried i think the next weeks will be very challenging for all of us because what we see is we have a feeling maybe that the situation is in control over the summer unfortunately its not this pandemic did not stop we are in the middle of the 2nd wave the numbers go up some places they explode and that is what. That number i just quoted for europe means it now accounts for about one 3rd of cases worldwide though it certainly doesnt account for that share of the global population so what is the reason for this rather dubious distinction for europe. I think were not quite sure at the moment yet but i think it will take a lot of time so also after the pandemic to analyze what went wrong where where the turning points for certain regions what was the decisive factor i think at the moment its still a lot of guess working but i mean what we can see is that europe is generally we have a lot of hospitals with dense population that definitely causes problems but i mean there are other places in the world where the population is equally dense and maybe theyre handling a better than europe so we will have to see if we should favor your Opening Statement mentions the change of season in summer here in europe for things almost seemed normal and i think perhaps a lot of us got lol to do a sense of false security was this 2nd wave that were seeing and inevitable result of Colder Weather or would you say that mistakes were made as mistakes were made but you and i were not. Taken the way they could have been taken like you know i remember in late spring early summer people started to talk about corona in the past tense actually like its its disappeared. We had so much of an urge to get back to our normal waves and a lot of opportunities were missed. Especially in trying to limit the number of infections as we go into the cold season its kind of i mean scary is a big word but it i think its reasonable to call it scary that we already now are seeing this surge in cases we could have done better we couldve. Gone into the fall season with much less infection it was much but of preparation. Many people thought that germany was the poster child for handling. And in fact it did significantly better than many of its neighbors dealing with the 1st wave of infection how are things looking now i dont think you have a been the poster child to be honest i think weve been very lucky especially in the beginning because we had more time was was spreading in other parts of europe so we had more time to prepare for all measures and then id say the German Government did a lot of things and they did a good job in a lot of ways i would say in general and some especially the germans themselves they stick to the measures now we see were tired i think we all are but i personally am as well i want to go back to normal its not possible but that is really something that its very stressful so i dont think that we in germany should be any way proud or prouder than anyone in the rest of the well because its a pandemic the word means were in this together lets talk a little bit about that stress that martin just mentioned he also mentioned. Fact that having information played a big role in the spring in helping germany to respond to quickly and effectively at this point i think many people are beginning to feel overwhelmed by the Constant Media drumbeat of information of new findings of suggestions and recommendations is there a risk do you think mira that this can backfire and make people perhaps less willing to take action and almost become defeatist i mean we know very well from your science that we if we bombard people with information with the same information or with also shocking information scary information they will shut down at some point and not take that information as serious as we should and we might have a little bit off that the fact of the moment i think it is also a huge problem that we are sometimes not consistent enough with what we expect people to do and what we recommend and i think that this inconsistency can also cause some confusion or this kind of people wanting to they come up with yet another thing out and come up with yet another thing and not trying to listen carefully what people or authorities would command lets take a deeper dive on what it is that were expecting people to do we are seeing a plethora not only of new numbers but also new rules so lets take a quick virtual trip to see how some of europes cities are coping and what regulations theyre putting into place. Hotspot madrid a partial lockdown has been imposed on the spanish capital and surrounding municipalities this affects a good 4000000 people only those who have to go to work or to a doctor are allowed to leave madrid is responsible for around one 3rd of corona virus infections in the country so the Central Government feels justified for issuing the state of emergency maximum alert level in paris cafes and bars are closed strict hygiene rules have been introduced in restaurants Alcohol Consumption in public spaces is prohibited as are large parties the latest measure is evening curfews and more restrictions may be coming. Berlin is counting on a curfew bars restaurants and shops must now shut down between 11 pm and 6 am no more than 5 people are allowed to meet up once and parties are considered to be the prime culprits of a pandemic and humans i actually wanted to celebrate my 20th birthday today and i was really looking forward to it with a curfew its really a pity that you cant live here as free labor. With the future of the pandemic be decided in big cities. Let me ask that question straight on to will the battle against be decided in cities and if so why. Well i mean we we see the rise in cases now in the cities that theres a lot of reasons for that People Living closer together but also the availability of testing maybe a population thats more conscious of the problem. So certainly were now seeing a lot of the cases there but it could spread especially. Because awareness in the countryside sometimes seems to be not as high so its a very complex situation and nobody really knows the answers thats also true for what measures work well what measures work best during the lockdowns and spring and early summer a lot of measures for taken at the same time so its really hard to distinguish what what works best where the School Closures decisive where the mass decides that all we know is that everything kind of worked together it might have been some of those measures that didnt contribute much to it but we will. Have no other choice than probably going back to some of those things. Which in concert were. Able to limit the numbers as i said or as you said in the beginning we are facing the cold season we had the big advantage and the spring the weather got better people. Could on those restrictions go outside more i mean were now only in the middle of october and its might get worse i want to get all of you to parse the different measures in a moment but lets stay with the question of cities just for a 2nd and martin certainly president caught a friend sees cities as decisive yesterday evening on wednesday he ordered a nighttime curfew for paris and 8 other french cities saying this quote we wont be leaving restaurants anymore after 9 pm and we wont be partying with our friends do measures like these and those we saw in that report do they make sense do they strike the right balance would you say well in the end all these measures follow one big idea this idea is to keep people apart keep social distancing and not have big gatherings and of course you can argue what do you do do you have a curfew for pops for restaurants do you do you say that big weddings arent allowed anymore things like that in france the situation god really worse over the last weeks or the last days especially and i think thats why michael did that i think no politician is happy to step in front of his people and say like thats close everythings specially in paris where eating is such an important thing so it is a balance we has to have to discuss but i think this strike a balance need that in germany right now we have other measures as well that in certain areas the pups close at 11 i do think thats a good idea but i think we have to just add to that we have to really monitor how people are reacting to these curfews you know when the end up drinking in the street is crowding up in the different place instead then we have won nothing here so i think we really have to see how different. Yeah even cultures react to that because i think there can be a difference some people might respond to that quite well and might work and in other countries it might not work because people have a different town a t. F. Ing we cannot forget about them lets. Talk about a little more about that because your Opening Statement mentioned eco wisdom and the importance that people take responsibility essentially not only for themselves but for each other so at the end of the report we saw that young man in berlin who was disappointed at not being able to celebrate his birthday how can we reach young people because it does seem that young people are increasingly becoming the spreader generation the 20 to 30 year olds i think in particular what do you think is the way to get them not to be egoistic i think we have to make people aware of the consequences of their behavior and i think it is always good to say yeah you might not be so severely in fact that you need to go. You know a respiratory device or that you need intensive care how but you have potentially a lot of. People in your close surrounding that might as well have that problem and you might be responsible for actually killing a person by infecting him i mean i think we have to be that drastic to 2 to make that comparison and i think also we dont always talk about the elderly right we want to all the elderly are going to die and you know oh your grandmother might get infected but i think its really important to say the risk group is not the elderly the risk group is also a lot of people with cuomo better teas with a smile for example with preexisting conditions exactly there are a lot of young people with asthma as well and i think weve already seen that some people who have lost more and contract the virus and go for covert 19 that they come up come down with really harsh long term effects off this thing us. Richard one country that we didnt see in our report but that is quite notable is italy it was at the absolute crest of the 1st wave of covert in europe with disastrous consequences for the Health System many of our viewers will remember the pictures of the italian nurses and doctors breaking down now the situation there is looking better than in many other European Countries what is italy doing right can we learn from that. Actually its very hard to tell you know i think. The experience there the harsh experience was a lesson that they still very much remember their lesson was very decisive for us to take measures and in the spring so i really dont know there is as i said its very complex chance might be involved as well you know. The structure of the population. May be people older people taking better care of themselves as before or being taken care of better by their families so its really really hard to pinpoint one sort of 11 particular thing i think but in both the very is mr president and also the mayor of berlin who are not exactly on the same political wavelength most of the time both say theyre not ruling out that we may see still more severe restrictions imposed in germany including even a lock down once again can you really in visage that happening here particularly given the Economic Impact it would have the chancellor said it must be avoided at all costs and should be avoided for a lot of reasons for economical reasons for social reasons as well because we sometimes tend to forget that a lot of people were locked away elderly people in care homes thats also a very big effect we think shouldnt forget. I actually dont know i hope its not going to be like weve had in germany like the situation weve had at the beginning of this pandemic but it is not a given fact that its not going to happen the chances are there that we still or might face another lockdown near the chancellor has also been saying that she absolutely wants to keep schools open that its very important not to sacrifice the educational wellbeing and social well being of children will germany and will europe be able to do that Going Forward you think whats the latest finding on the degree to which schools are spreaders i think there is not yet very strong Scientific Evidence that schools are the origin of big infection clusters of thing that we can say that it looks like they are not reason number one which again is a reason to keep them open especially for small children i think it is totally possible to find a. Good balance. Teaching some children in school having a little bit of home schooling for others have some kind of maybe a shift system where they come in every 2nd day or where the younger ones go to class where the older ones rather stay at home i think its absolutely possible to keep schools open with a reasonable hygiene concept and another another point where theres perhaps a lesson to be learned from how things were dealt with in the 1st wave of the virus and he said it was every country for itself at that time borders were Close National authorities scrambled to get hold of masks and equipment sometimes at the expense of others who needed more since then there have been a lot of vows to not have that repeat itself what do you think will we see better coordination and Cooperation Amongst the Different Countries in europe and also amongst different cities than we did during the 1st wave and im thinking especially about the sharing of Hospital Capacity for example i mean again experience is a plus on this side i mean weve. Started doing this kind of coordination in the spring i think its going to work better but it also does is also going to depend on the on the extent of the on the severity of the dependent mix or if things may get out of hand just because you know medical personnel in large numbers will not be able to cope anymore dave theyve gone through it before so. I think coordination is key but. Its its hard to really to predict how much you can count on it. Speaking of cooperation lets take a quick look at the state of Vaccine Research it is proceeding apace yet even under the best Case Scenario europe cities will have to manage the virus for some time to come heres a closer look at the timeline for one project based here in germany. Ad by Bryan Tackett the manes based Biotechnology Firm could soon become the 1st German Company to produce its genetically engineered vaccine by the millions with its u. S. Partner pfizer and. Thats because biotech is currently in the 3rd critical phase of fact testing with 37000 volunteer test subjects and an accelerated approval process is already underway at the moment research is moving at an incredible speed currently the ministry for research expects that large portions of the population will be able to be vaccinated by the middle of next year. 2 other german pharmaceutical manufacturers are competing with brian tech and not only that the World Health Organization lists 180. 00 active vaccine programs of which at least 8 are in the 3rd phase of testing. We see this less as a race against each other and more as one to keep the pandemic under control there will be several rounds of approval. But competition has been raging about when each country will receive the vaccine. What do you think which country or which company will win the competition and your Opening Statement mentioned eco wisdom so let me ask you how cut throat you think that this vaccine competition is likely to become. Im going to be. Honest and say i really really hope its not going to be cutthroat situation i really will encounter i really hope that everyone will see my subsidy no sense of this pandemic that we have to Work Together that we have to. Really think about what is best for everyone no matter which country they are living i do think that pfizer. Is a good candidate to maybe bring one of the 1st vaccines in europe onto the market. But we will see something can always happen in a file face martin we heard a pretty optimistic prognosis there from the German Research minister that large segments of the population here could be vaccinated by the middle of next year would you share that optimism no i wouldnt im not that sure im not so sure i think in the end well have more than one vaccine that will come to an end at the moment the w. H. O. Says more than a dozen are in the clinical 3rd phase of the important phase of of the testing but still then this vaccine has to be produced and then we have to think and we have to make a call who is more important to get the vaccine 1st elderly maybe people who work in hospitals id say but im not that sure as our minister is that this will be for everyone or almost everyone should martin a