Possible. Everest bartolo welcome to conflict so thank you youve made it clear that in the wake of the murder of nicaragua and all the corruption scandals that have followed that malta needs to rebuild its reputation that isnt going to happen until there but he starts telling the truth is that i agree at the fact when i was appointed for the 1st minister because they told me to go ahead and see what you can do i made that very clear not a beautician or a Plastic Surgeon have there are a glib things which have to be dealt with they have to be dealt with in malta in terms of reality or not of the presentation of reality where were getting into possibly what some of those dirty things are but im curious why former ministers like you supported a government that you knew was rotten to the core. Well when things started coming out of the time of the Panama Papers for the last with to succeed i made it very clear that they thought id accept the bill. But you say go i stayed on. I had the choice. I admire savonarola but they had my galileo more i had to i had the survivor strategy where i could fight another but then we used that experience to get there weve got to follow the horse to rip of the party had the time and now hes in the Democratic Party to negotiate for things to make the government more accountable but your collective silence over the years helped cement in power a government that became a byword for corruption with conflicts of interest multiplying in the Prime Ministers Office and the rule of law or seriously undermined and you went along with by staying in that government. Yes they have said recently that perhaps. It would have been wiser to resign in 2016 as a pressure to change things i acknowledge that but i have spoken even of the over the last 4 years against what you have just said it is the big question of a lot of moving i will get on to say look i dont think it was very very i dont think of it if you were to live in a Small Society like more the you know the world the way i spoke and what i said was very very clear o. C. C. R. P. The highly respected organized crime and corruption reporting project im sure you know it they named joseph must get person of the year for 2019 an annual award that highlights an individual who has done most to advanced organized criminal activity and corruption in a given year its a pretty shameful ward to the man you worked for isnt it but they made it clear to him even in 2016 that the tours going to be in his interest to take the necessary steps against those people in government who are of the demand of Panama Papers and he didnt pay the huge price for it so how do you feel he deserves the award. And i think i made that very clear to him that it was in his interest for a person to have contributed so much to a konami group to the introduction of Civil Liberties immortal then to have his record painted with that weather doesnt excuse him for what he did later doesnt know just because the economy was booming you know of course murder and corruption were also and looming and the to have made it also very clear that Economic Growth shouldnt come at any expense we should have occurred on the growth with a tool of law and with clean government o. C. C. R. P. Said that on the muskrats leadership criminality and corruption have flourished and in many cases gone unpunished creating an environment that led to the 27000 murder of tough knicker on the girlies here if they knew that then the same message was coming for. In other International Watchdogs you had to know what was going on yourself because youre not completely and what is going to and im not trying to get away from this. First of all one of the big problems that we have and again im not trying to explain it away is that in our Small Society personal networks personal relations are stronger than institutionally once and at the expense of the public. Because unfortunately the rule of family or do all of friends is stronger than the rule of law and this is an issue that we have to deal with and before come to a point you know that we cannot delay taking all the necessary steps anymore its. Just assertion doesnt it minister said the personal relationships are worth more than the rule of law but if youre in government whats worth more than the rule of law yes but in the Small Society that im seeing and there again im not trying to excuse anything and small island states like malta microstates which are not as the size of minnesota but one 3rd of its population. It is true that when you look at the primary groups of friends and family and then the 2nd the groups are institutionally should come in the 1st group and the 2nd group its very poorest theres no bond there between one and the other saying is that in our society this it is a more formidable challenge to make sure that there is the rule of law that there are rules and there are regulators who serve in government are expected to accept that challenge and roy is going oh they are very good one of the things you limited was that you didnt take a stronger stand in 2016 against the least one of those minister friends of the former Prime Minister conrad mitzi whod been named in the Panama Papers your biggest political mistake you called it even so your behavior was inexplicable wasnt it you called publicly for mitts his resignation but you refused to endorse the parliamentary vote of no confidence against him or because the way the motion had been framed and then the amendments that were put to death made it possible for us to hold the government to my government to introduce measures to increase accountability there but in the end you helped to keep in office a man whose behavior in your own view had been shot the a new adequate mycenaeans your old my single vote to have made a difference every was going to vote makes a difference on islam but now doesnt it not but not in that case with you where you have suppose you started another girl you didnt stand for your prince i agree with you but i tried to use that to negotiate measures to hold the government to account now when it happened when didnt think it was impossible. Well some measure started coming in but then when this time the news started coming after november i made it very clear that i was going to resign and they said i did they go or i go and they made enough pressure for them to go. But the fact is that your silence and your continued support of the former Prime Minister made you and your colleagues complicit in this dysfunctional corrupt system i tried to use internal pressure to get things done this time in november talk to remain i dont want any any peak called part of this swamp of corruption and financial crime. I try to do my bit better they havent done enough but i am committed to do all i can to because this is a very important time for us its a moment of truth i would call it without an existing shield crossroads since our independence 55 years ago we either get our house in order or we i think threaten our sovereignty and there were low for the motor but there been so many warnings like that before heaven then they were ignored in 2017 year and chief Justice Sylvia comey larry warned that instead of the rule of law motor was heading to what he called the rule of delinquents another that was enough to change anybodys mind then wasnt warning in stark sharp terms like the. Beat when when things start the become more clear for us because you might think that im trying to get away from what youre telling me but. Its only recently that things became so clear to us what was happening i know that even in 2016 they warned that there was a shadow government and the network of Decision Makers that were that were influencing what was happening but didnt name names did you might think it was clear who i was referring to really wasnt how its all going to 63 they think it was their unit leave given that the same people were still in government and still are part of the establishment. I made internal pressure and i didnt manage to get them from a difficulty that the whole system was in fact set up to to bypass independent scrutiny and prevent any kind of accountability wasnt it i mean the pit the Prime Ministers Office for instance took over responsibility for areas that presented particular opportunities for Money LaunderingOnline Gaming investment migration regulation of Financial Services it was clear that it was these areas were drowning in corruption and by the pratt getting the Prime Minister involved directly in them was keeping the regulators at bay wasnt it but im not changing im not i dont agree that all these activities in all these different economic sectors are rotten and corrupt there are definitely parts which are and where one of the problems i think that we have had. Respective of the share of human nature with design is the that there is. When you have such strong Economic Growth and the regulators are not given enough resources or intentionally. To a certain instances kills the intention to a certain extent yes but not all of them either but for example when it comes to financial investigations those have been given a lot of resources i think the biggest problem that we have and the weakest weakest link in the chain is the Economic Crimes unit of the police and unless that is beefed up and really resourced with well qualified people of integrity this problem will remain because ultimately were going to be judged on how many people are prosecuted not what im telling you now what we say in granting ground thats really difficult when the judges and magistrates were appointed by the Prime Minister was that were the case in a system described by the council of europes Parliamentary Assembly as incompatible with Judicial Independence and the rule of law but i think this is not fair in this case for a very simple reason it does government the appointment of magistrate turned the judges have been more independent of the executive arm of government than ever before before the Prime Minister had talked to jurisdiction no its not like that in a moment there is a Judicial Appointment Committee and we are intent definitely on taking the steps of the Venice Commission has indicated it once used to do so for known but we have started that i dont usually dont even in the last 30 that differ in the last week even sorry even in the last month apart from the last week sets have been taken to start implementing those recommendations under dinu Prime Minister in may 2016 when you said things were fine. They plainly werent were they you said the government had already started in 2016 to introduce a culture of better political responsibility and transparency that wasnt true you know it all struck those were the measures that i told you about here but 3 years later the council of europe reported that major scandals were arising going unreported and uninvestigated for the 1st time we have we have introduced this is the contradiction of this government and of the moscow government as well for the 1st time we introduced measures to hold government to account that had never been introduced before now where they were they were they werent working or nothing but why give them or why give them a free pass say a culture of better political responsibility and transparency has been introduced then we have the parliament papers the electorate gas the further hilman the further vittles Global Health care for the golden passport all all time and again featuring the same key figures close to the Prime Minister and the police and several instances mysteriously failing to act and none of that was serious enough for you to say youve crossed my red lines youve crossed the many many times i did see it intended. And they repeated the weakest link was and still remains even now and we have to act about the Economic Crimes unit because its not enough to name people its not that after weve arrested gave them then you need to prosecute just about although you know much much more than youre telling them to do more than youve ever told you no names you know places you know where the bodies are buried dont you. Have you taken a vow of silence no i havent and if you are you afraid for your is live on another weve seen what happens to people no tell the truth and well know that you know if there is more that if there is anyone who has nothing can have our silence has me because i have spoken up i have spoken up time and taken her to dance around the subject you make cryptic comments like justice can be served without fear of. Favor without burning this country to cinders and without burning or hurting those who want justice done what on earth does not mean its not critical to the earth does it mean who is it addressed to was addressed to my government but then they pull another pressure for that change to happen you also their own facebook the country cannot protect murderers money launderers and other criminals justice has to be done and i dont really wasnt the country protecting these people was it it was your fellow politicians and lawyers servants like you were either turning a blind eye or actively perverting the course of justice and pushing for that to happen it still has to happen im pushing for that to happen just about all who exactly was and is protecting murderers in malta who 1st of all when it comes to the assassination of the current ability we have a judicial process going on now because the alleged killers have been brought to justice but you know more than this dont you you know more than this i know more than this you know more you talk about murderers being protected im asking you very simply whos protecting them on malta who keep on saying when i will keep on pushing for all the truth to come out but youre not answering my question im asking you i cannot give you my not have no course and the bonus if because of the names why do the job of the police if there are investigations i can assure you that im doing my duty in my only being to the police. Im doing my duty that i dont know what that means because you kept a 1000000 as i will who was clearly more corrupt than he should have been. Hugely so i will i will keep on pushing for all the truth to come out and they would stake my reputation and how do we know that when you wont you know theres just you sit in front of the camera and you wont tell me what you want to be judged you will be trashed by what happens but its this is exactly this climate of silence and these networks of criminal corruption that created a permissive environment and allowed someone to believe they could get away with the killing of Dufner Corona girly and silence free journalism they have and will but i havent got away with it they havent thought of it it we have high political assassinations before and no one was brought to justice at least in this case weve started doing these things just isnt the end of as story no its not the end of the story and that cannot be the end of the story did all the troops its uncovered and by the by admitting that it isnt the end of the story you know that the story goes further and you know that this network that arranged for her assassination hasnt come to light yet has it but the phone said we have to keep on pushing for all the truth to be own father. We only have your word that you will do that and on that will do it it will happen to have the commitment of the Prime Minister of israel and the minister for the interior who has started taking the courageous decision but this investigation was tainted from the start for them to do that if those who know lost some of the council of europe one of the series of magistrate should have been taken off the case because of conflicts of interest likewise the investigating Police Officer force claims that sayed said were made by the minister of the interior but progress in the investigation if thats not an investigation tainted with all its all because it did give results and 11 important point in all this is that there are other services involved including europe so even if there are elements who want to cover up that information is available to the force beyond so that is a good guarantee that the whole truth will come out definite carol ability or didnt have much that was nice to say about you did she. December 26th in she wrote of the toler with decent and honest with the of stuck with the labor party since the 1970 s. Of course not decent and honest people left in droves when they saw what was going on shes right isnt she and no i dont think so and i dont agree with her comment i respect what she had done but i think she was very prejudiced against him and if you were decent would have allowed himself to be part of muskrats power hungry bandwagon because the via and others worked it out from the outside he had to have known it from the inside that they were planning corrupt deals and i dont agree with him because i did in my own little way and im not trying to kill. Put myself in the in the role of a knight in the chain and dharma in my own little way i did what i could to train change things since ive entered politics and these problems that shes writing about she didnt try to like that when the other party was in government i have tried to bring about changes in my own lives they look at me with interest corruptors youre aware that is the idea that i beg to differ i beg to differ. She reported what she saw in front of she reported what she saw going on in malta the time she will be as by the way should try to. Before that i think its unfair and the baton but its just about all if you want maltas reputation really spray youre going to have to prove that this new government is better than the last one so for