Thanks very much indeed for joining us here in the studio today my 3 guests include yulia fish a former doctor now journalist and author she says we must make no compromises in implementing the Lessons Learned so far if not the 2nd wave will be very very painful she said. Also with this is a rica have done business and finance journalist with the berlin based daily the target sites of all the targets and orica believes that by the full the late the latest corona will be back and she warns the economy will be hard hit on a very warm welcome to serbia squatch professor of Public Health and deputy viola jihad Berlin Charity hospital he says we must do everything at all power to keep infection rates low and protect the public sector. Thank you all for being here once again id like to begin with utopias coats and until very recently there was a sense here in germany that we have the situation with the coronavirus pretty much under control its fair to say so is it fair to. Ask what has gone wrong im not sure something went wrong. That were seeing right now was expected because we open the borders we allow people to travel abroad people maybe behave something somewhat different than they would do at home they come back some of them are infected as schools opening public lives opening which is a good thing i think the issue that we see over the last days a certain rise in the numbers about the dismissive of the numbers up yes not. A very low level still so theres an increase and if this is a really big wave that we that we seeing right now we have to wait and we have to everyone really take control on that infection rate Wearing Masks keeping their distance so we can keep the public life open thats really important you know not think yeah im totally agree because i also think that its not surprising that the numbers are coming up. Says parts of it is due to the. Parties that are happening in private places with fancy its an answer strange isnt it for viewers that are outside germany or outside berlin specifically it will seem strange that we talk about corona parties here and yeah yeah the ones i was talking about right now are not corona parties i would say but its people getting together and having gatherings or bigger gatherings than were allowed a few weeks ago and i mean i think its normal that the numbers are gonna rise after having more parties or get togethers more gatherings like that but that we can still react that would still have it under control were not being hit by a way if you get it might develop to a way of but were not there yet im going to buckle always warns against the do she uses the german word of course she uses the word like it which means sort of complacency it appears to me and so many other observers to be dreadful compared complacency your you know you your response to the notion that its sort of old. Its of human nature it is part of human nature and weve been and the time that was hard on us its a burden for everybody having to live in this situation not knowing when its going to end living a life thats not like the life we used to and that causes stress and that makes it hard for us to keep to the rules but still of course we have to stick to the rules and we have to keep going but it is part of human nature that we have that we want to and that is that we get especially if we dont see the numbers rising and in summer we had a really calm time and thats what we the prevention paradox. If you dont see the numbers rising in the virus being really really dangerous you might believe its already over and of course thats not the case its natural to think this but we have of course to tell the people its not over yet we really have to keep taking the measures. In germany have been broadly praised for the response to the crisis so far do you share about well i think that. German authorities reacted in the right way but its not true and thats something that the germans tend to think that it was only german germany that will successful in fighting the pend that make for example a country that is always overlooked and that was even more successful than germany is greece because greece stopped carnival for example very beginning various in germany we had big parties at carnival with the ending with a lot of corona cases so the greeks didnt have carnival they stopped. Parties they stopped or they shut all their sons down all the. Shops down stage when the germans still. Trying to act as if everything. So well yes the. Successful. You are clearly worried from your statement of the top of the show that the Health Services in germany in the foreseeable future be overstretched despite everything that weve just been hearing talking only about the Health Services but about public life as a whole so. Like concert halls like that we can keep this open so we just minutes to open them up again and the numbers were low and so we really have to make efforts to keep them open and we all can change the numbers by Wearing Masks but keeping the distance and eventually hopefully we have medication or vaccination available that make a big difference but until then we have to Work Together to prevent further lockdown ok despite all that weve heard so far some observers are talking about the divide here in germany. That divide is the growing number of people joining protests against hygiene regulations and claiming that fundamental freedoms are at stake. The estimated crowd of 20000 people who demonstrated against compulsory masks and other coronavirus restrictions last weekend was an unusual mix among them were coronavirus deniers and right wing extremists and conspiracy theorists all united in their anger against the federal government their motto and of the pandemic i day of freedom. Theyre just plain scare tactics i dont see any danger i dont know any sick people. Demand is basically going back to democracy away with these laws that have been imposed on us away with the masks that make us. Through. People who dont do research the way we do it they are kept stupid and believe what the government tells us and they buy into the fear that the government peddles to us and fear attacks the immune system freedom or safety. Is this the choice that defines the pandemic. Thats the big question. Here in berlin here in germany that was triggered by the demonstrations last weekend is it Public Health against freedom of the debate i dont think so or its difficult to say i mean. I think great parts of germany and the people in germany understand that these measures are needed and that its ok and that its not really our freedom being taken away from us its just a piece of cloth that we have to wear on the face but then theres also other people who. Cant take the situation who are being more stressed by it maybe and who are trying to find an answer to why this situation is so difficult to stand and thats why theyre making up. Other explanations because. People who clearly do believe that democracy is in danger. Been explaining who do who see the other side of the argument. Here in germany talk to the people in these protests video its. Pretty extreme stuff surely we need to have more sympathy or more understanding for people who. I think its you have to differentiate between the people here have to see the ones that are claiming difficulties with the situation that are perfectly. Right just like people want to see their friends meet friends people want to work people. Not having their financial. They dont want to be destroyed financially and. All of these things are problems that we need to hear and we need to talk to the people and explain to them what is important but then of course theres the that its difficult to talk to because they have complaints that are just not right. Corona is a false alarm what do you say to that its not a false alarm corona is real corona is dangerous and you can measure corona clearly and if you say corona doesnt exist in a very dangerous situation the the protest the mix of different groups are very to difficult to to understand and actually theres a danger and when you have rights when groups have a certain agenda and trying to use this momentum and their people. If you should just who have real concerns about the situation who see that really we have low numbers so obviously not much is going on as some was beautiful outside and not much is happening so why cant i so thats a normal reaction and in a democracy we should we should be able to discuss this and we should allow this voices to speak up and we should openly discuss their concerns to understand their concerns and jointly really target their pandemic because we can only do it jointly if one group thinks that that way works and the other a just idiots that is really done dividing the population and we should not do that but it was interesting to know that there were practically no masks inside the demonstration. Feels like a form of sort of russian roulette. I wouldnt be dead extreme you certainly risk getting infected whether then youre actually getting sick is not a question and obviously youre risking that you infect other people and then they infect other people and so on so i think it was not a smart move to not wear a mask during a demonstration where you were really close together but obviously that was one of the reasoning too to not wear. Ask i think we all have to understand that each of us can make a difference and if we wear this piece of cloth for a couple more months and maybe selected so in airplanes for example or Public Transportation. Distance many many years that people will mask in Public Transportation thats thats a normal situation there maybe thats a new normal for us and if you where it is for a couple of minutes a couple of hours i dont think that your freedom is in danger. Do you do with people who do refuse to work to wear masks maybe men whereas if thats the case i mean thats something that we also know that in our newspaper that we get letters by men who always. Complain that they have to but they are not allowed to celebrate than 17th. So yes i think that you should just find them i think that it is important to talk to people but i think its also important to show that the state has authority because those who always complain about their freedom if you look at their personality usually its people who are somehow crave authority and they every react positively to authority they just want to see where the line is i mean its exactly those people not all of them but many who are right being parties so they want to have as we say in german law. Terry in person so i think in a way its good of the state on the government just shows. How the rules all refresher what would your response be to people who simply refuse to wear masks. Came into the show today and i was sitting opposite our guy who was wearing a mask its all or it was on his chest well you know what do you do do you address people to pull people up. Thats difficult i would. I think i would decide in the moment if if i think the is open for debating and talking or like in the subway for example maybe i would just let him pass but i would always try as a science journalist to address the people and to really explain why masks are important that there are. Important measures that we have do you think its ok to find them they have to pay 150. 00 euros i think thats fair i think its i think its fair in the subway and supermarkets when you know you cant keep the distance i think its ok to do so in order to make the people have the people know that. Their actions have effect this interesting i was talking to a friend of mine from from thailand who would say that in large parts of asia were just starting to. Its a real affront to of the peoples well being he actually used to be said its like youre advancing in the corner its that takes tree but we sort of for some reason more or less accept difference of mentality somehow and difference of being used to things that are polite and that are normal to do in a society in its way more polite and its normal and we still need to get used to it i think we can but sometimes just about these protests before we move on to a different how typical is not something specifically german about the protests. I wouldnt think so. The last pandemics we had over the last century you always have to and you always have a process more or less obvious and you always have people who have to feel use about a virus about a pandemic and the reaction how the government to react and so on so in germany were used to go out and state oh opinion and thats a good thing and so to having this particular demonstration is also i would say a normal blood was expected and im sure it will happen again and so i think its important to to keep up the discussion while obviously we also need to make sure that the minimal measures that we have to take wearing mask i dont think is about mask i think is about a system trying to tell you what you have to do and the wearing a mask its more or less easy sometimes getting uncomfortable after hours if you want glasses a little bit difficult but i dont think its about a mask and. 20000 people and we have 4000000 inhabitants son of 8 of us a very small minority and they came from all parts of germany. People. But they all gathered ok we will continue to monitor the situation now around the world lockdowns have certainly had a devastating economic embargo many countries still struggling to recover including in Southern Europe particularly spain. It is a clear and sale and although crespo has already drastically reduced its prices few customers come to buy anything or even able to buy anything. Yesterday i made 102 euros at most honestly i dont know how long we can survive with these prices. Crespo has already had to close one of his 3 stores the spanish economy suffered an 18. 5 percent slump in the 2nd quarter while the average across europe was a solid 12 percent. Drop. Now shopkeepers like christofi are a renewed increase in the number of infections because another lockdown would be his ruin. Cant europes economy survive a 2nd turn of virus wave. Its a big question were asking. The question. Explain survive a 2nd wave. Thats being helped by the other countries because you know unfortunately in europe we have this divide between countries like lets say spain or portugal or greece and rich countries like germany for example germany it was no problem to survive carbone also fall because what the government did was just to print new money by taking out loans and theres no limit for the German Government when it comes to. Taking out loans but for those poor countries its really difficult to get finance so what we need is the whole of europe. On a package that has already been proposed. Around 750000000000 euros. Supposed to be voted Foreign Policy meant to go to the poor countries and its really very important that this package of 750000000000 euros is. Decided on and perhaps the situation in spain can be alleviated what about the role of People Like Us ordinary citizens in germany and in the rest of europe what should we be doing i mean you. Should go right out and buy as much as you can i mean its you know from a. From a Vantage Point of environment its of course horrible but. We have to consume but in order to save the economy its the best thing to do you believe to go out and shop on the right is that i want to start at home and worry you know. Basically it Big Questions about the future of our economy because people who are you going to the economies are slowing down thats the essential message here yes of course and it will take a long time for the economy to recover. Well if germany for example just had the decline of 10 percent in the 2nd quarter it was not as bad as spain that had 18 percent but nonetheless 10 percent is a lot and take a whole of 2021 in order to somehow get back on track what about the Global Economy meanwhile i mean that sort of sort of its all interconnected its all. Going down and especially you know its hardly possible to somehow see what will be happening in the United States because they do not get the pandemic under control so probably they will have a 2nd lockdown and that of course is very bad news for the whole of the world because the United States is one of the most important customers for example for the German Economy its really very difficult to see what will happen. To be. A little list of the countries that are. Struggling the moves to present me so many countries are struggling us sir. I japan morocco hong kong australia i could go on obviously you know what Public Health measures do they do it does the Global Community have moving into the future now what new measures what new proposals its very difficult to answer is on the global scale so each region has to specific settings a specific Health Care System specific economy specific social psychological systems so its its really difficult to say what we all can do is certainly what we have to try to do is get the numbers under control and so important also for germany to to keep on going and to. Not advice but really tell other countries how it may work and w. H. O. Obviously has has experts who can assist but often people dont listen and the initially a pandemic was not taken seriously so it was a the mouse just a little flu virus and so let him come and and obviously now to suffer the most is these countries other countries they have a different set up in terms of having no resources to actually do something so its very difficult for them to actually react and do they simply not afford it they cannot afford it and People Living conditions their working conditions. Living condition and at home are very difficult and challenging and increase the likelihood of getting infected. It is a search a certain social gradient where you have stood so those on the low and the more likely to getting affected in those countries who have less resources are more likely to having a big issues and then you have countries like the United States and others with enormous resources but they just didnt want to react so its a mix of both and we have to understand that. The globe is important also for the economies like like even germany all as well we export a lot if the others dont buy them we also have a problem so we need to help other countries in europe and