Welcome to complex so nice to be here its around 16 months since agents of your state to murder Jamal Khashoggi and cold blood in your consulate in istanbul whats striking in retrospect is that 3 days later your crown Prince Mohammed bin sultan told the turkish authorities to search the consulate and added we have nothing to hide it remarkable statement because in fact the last 16 months have been full of aspects of this case that you have it right from the start on going on hiding this is not the truth i dont believe so we have said that this was a rolled up ration that it was not authorized we have investigated the people who were part of this operation charges we loved. Against 11 of them 5 of them were facing the Death Penalty the trial began in january the trial was attended by representatives of the permanent 5 countries and on the Security Council plus 3 people id like to talk id like to talk about the trial but but but straight away after the event theres just take that expensive offer from the crown prince to search your concert it was another 10 days before turkish investigators were actually allowed into the building why so long if you have nothing to hide like the technical person but i understand that there are situations where countries have to agree on the mechanics and the modalities of how you want people to enter sovereign territory you have to agree on the equipment you have to agree on the scope and you have to agree no country would allow another country full access to a diplomatic facility that are certain happened the un special rapporteur adverse column or didnt see it the way she found credible evidence pointing to the crime scene as having been fairly even forensically clean these indicate she said the saudi investigation was not carried out in good faith and that it may amount to obstruct the thought of the that was kind of i did not have a mandate for this she relied on sources from the newspapers and leaks to the media she did not she didnt have any experts in forensics and other issues but its a safe assumption isnt it you clean up the crime scene immediately youre hiding something up a safe assumption the issue with agnes kind of virus you vote to have report based on those from fords and then she. Can started look at her record when it comes to surgery before a number of years and how disparaging a whole negative she has been against saudi well a lot of people are disparaging these days about saudi arabia because we are human rights record and i take this i take exception with this so grevious made great progress in terms of human rights leaders could make great progress in terms of reform in terms of empowering women in terms of empowering youth in terms of ocean of society in terms of diversifying our economy in terms of reducing our reliance on oil 30 a bit is moving very very quickly in a very positive direction under the guidance and direction of the companies will come onto the do. Tales of that and i want to take you up on that but the list of Unanswered Questions about the murder itself is extensive in that we still dont know what happened to the remains of mr kushner how is that possible when you allegedly have all the criminals involved behind bars they have you know how do you not know they have said that they had a local collaborator who disposed of the body whereas i dont know i mean he just didnt show interest game designers i dont buy im not the Public Prosecutor we do Foreign Policy we dont look for him and best acacias you give them behind as larry king of the state telling you what we did and what we did is what every other country did the United States said abu ghraib in iraq but he not everybody us i am talking about the us committed outrageous crimes did the president authorize it and it was scrutiny of his the commander sitting where youre being scrutinized yes and what they did is they investigated they held people accountable they put in place mechanisms to prevent that from happening thats what governments who was this socalled cooperate so you know took away the body i dont want to remain i dont know we dont have a history of murdering our citizens but if you are sorry as you claim to be over this incident why havent you found out this information as a matter of urgency and told mr kushal his family because that would be a few momentary ingestion we have sent a number of legal documents to the turkish authorities asking for information and we have not received anything except one you havent told us either who you think masterminded this murder surely the trial must have shown up at all and so that it was it was a mistake people exceeded their authorities and this happened the people who committed of a grave did not do it under the authority of the president or the Vice President or the secretary of defense the u. S. Government isnt buying your version of events is that the cia has let it be known in briefings that it has medium to high confidence that it was your crown Prince Mohammed bin someone who ordered the killing we dont see it this way the president and the secretary of state have said this is not the case the largest Intelligence Agency in the world unmatched resources you tell me theyre talking nonsense i can only tell you what the u. S. President who is the commander in chief of the u. S. Armed forces and what the structure of state have said publicly. But if it was nonsense how do you explain the phone conversation intercepted by u. S. By agencies in 2017 in which the crown prince told a top aide hed use a bullet on question if we didnt stop his criticism i dont know anything about this and i cant comment about something that appears in newspapers based on Anonymous Sources even if those Anonymous Sources are attributed to intelligence agencies the un acknowledges that its been an important step this trial towards accountability but says its failed to meet procedural and substantive standards trial to help hold where you are and those who are in the us so the report from the from the special rapporteur the special muslim is biased special about or why because it is a little group with exceeded her authority the special of what or says the trial was secret how can a trial be secret when we have representatives from the 5 permanent members of the Security Council plus turkey alqaeda the trial was held behind closed doors the identity of those charged has not been released nor the identity of those facing the Death Penalty why the decision of opening up a trial or not rests with the judge and if the judge does not want to have a courtroom that looks like a circuit its his prerogative to close the trial now the representative from the other countries who are there have access to all the proceedings and they know the names of the people why were they told not to speak about it because we want to make sure that when the trial is over and charges were leveled the punishment is announced and people can see it you cannot accuse somebody who turns out to be innocent and then in the end they lose face society theyve been sentenced to death not all of them 5 of them really been so still one of them have been investigated and i believe 10 or 11 have been charged 5 have been sentenced to death why cant we know their names you look at the jurors the verdict on them because the trial is not over theres going to be an appeal and there and it has to be reviewed by the Supreme Court this is how awkward systems work is that lets deal with the final explanation that you and others in. Government would have us believe that it was some other rogue operation this team of high level operatives some of whom had in the past travelled with the crown prince decided they just had to go and kill was the question of the day they went out on a limb like that i believe they want to talk to him and they want to convince him to come back to her and he was something went terribly wrong and an altercation happened and he was murdered they went with an autopsy expert who had a bomb so language i dont know about that i dont know about everybody else and i dont know where those are but he says i dont know about that the idea with that is that this was authorized is ridiculous this was a rogue operation that happened that should part of happened were going to we paying a great price for it its a terrible tragedy and the issue is we deal with it from with legal perspective jim our family has come out and said we have confidence in the saudi judicial system there is the family that is most affected by the exposed to say this that in saudi arabia but but but but your but your agents didnt bother to hide what they did didnt bother to disguise their actions at all one of them according to transcripts of their bug conversation was talking into a telephone immediately after the murder saying tell you was the thing is done its done who is he turns out this is not correct i dont believe the says correct i dont know this is this was from leaks i havent seen that intercepts that the turks had but if turkey had all of this information why didnt they provided to Jamal Khashoggi before he went to the consulate if they believe this is the case if you are insisting that its a brogue operation answer me one question why were the people who were involved that didnt sneak in by night and sneak out again they came in private jets diplomatic passports checking into they left a trail everywhere they left a trail everywhere so by monitoring him. Assuming they werent authorized to do it they were signing their own death was what rogue thats what rogue operatives would do that thats why theyre facing a number of them are facing the Death Penalty and others are facing life and why why would they do that whats the motive for writing your own death sentence i dont know i think they went in to talk to him they went in to try to convince him to come back something went terribly wrong and he was killed and they are being on trial now and a number of them are facing that they were actually the fully intended to kill him otherwise why do you take all obviously wisely youre having to assume why do you have to assume the worst when it comes to saudi arabia operations gone wrong this is apparently how it has been to have a good news assuming the worst grade worst grave was pretty bad and they got a lot of bad publicity for it but we got to get out on the ice obesity for then were dealing with the devil putting people on trial and we will be punishing them one of the key questions that keeps returning is whether the crown prince created an environment which allowed his agents to behave in the way they did in istanbul or you would tell me thats not true wouldnt you of course not the Crown Princess or driving force behind change in her view because the driving force behind empowering women and men in saudi arabia use history driving force behind economic opening and economic reform and of increasing repression against those who dare think and act in an independent fashion i disagree with that history driving force behind entertainment and the creation of the driving force behind technology in investments in technology and surgery very he said driving force for setting surgery of up to be the leading country in the 21st century restored in march 27th in u. S. Officials with access to classified intelligence reports told the New York Times that your crown prince had authorized a secret campaign to silence dissenters that included surveillance kidnapping. Attention torture socalled Rapid Intervention team im not going to comment on news reports attributed to Anonymous Sources some came from saudi officials as well Anonymous Sources seems there was a Standing Order to saudi intelligence to bring dissidents phone animists sources i cannot comment on Anonymous Sources told about one of them who was brought home now off shed a poet in 2018 he was on a trip to kuwait stopped at the airport forcibly returned to serbia arabia i dont have the details of this he was held incommunicado for 12 months no charge of anything i dont have the details on this case. No saudi citizen is actually safe if they speak out against your government thats correct people come and see the king and his majesty the crown prince and his majesty communicate with them they told them what they think they express criticism they provide ideas they provide suggestions this is what surgery b. Has been for centuries Amnesty International said last year that virtually all Saudi Arabian human rights defenders and independent voices male and female are behind bars serving lengthy sentences handed down by your Specialized Criminal Court most were prosecuted they said for their peaceful human rights work and calls for reforms i take issue with the countries on a major path to reform and anybody who calls for reform is part of that process why would we have reforms in saudi arabia and that could such people call for reform there are other issues that people have been charged with and have been sentenced with and i believe that the reports that we get another very accurate really and so when you and if you have any issue with the terms of the legal issues you should really address them to the Public Prosecution last year they also quoted a saudi lawyer i g. Who has represented many defendants before your Specialized Criminal Court he said on the record the presumption of innocence is not part of the Saudi Arabian judicial system pledging words are that i disagree with his assessment the presumption is always innocent until Proven Guilty when he says the opposite he has defended many people before you are a lot unlike the positions of some of the n. G. O. S who assume that harvey appears guilty before without presuming that its innocent we are guilty. Before the case was over so everybody has missed everybody who reports this massive crackdown of the what most of crackdown on grip on the dissidents people we have human Rights Groups the International HumanRights Groups that all wrong i will be very example i will draw i will give you an example and you tell me but the simple question in the 1990 s. We had radical preachers who were calling for jihad and please please can you just want to take us in our different direction you moved us from the structure so allow me to finish i want to point out the focus in the 1990 s. We were criticized for having radical preachers inside weve been preaching hate. When we detained them we were criticized for taking away their freedom of speech its a damned if you do damned if you do situation if you dont situation do you want them to preach hate or do you want them to stop you cant have it both ways thats the park which is that perfect mr raja back in march last year 36 countries you know this issued a joint statement expressing particular concern about your use of cold terror legislation against individuals peacefully exercising their rights and freedom 36 countries germany france u. K. Spain italy australia and they also misjudge the situation in your country yet you seem to be badly misunderstood by some of the most expert biggest experts in the world yes they are really not about happen i doubt that they know so little that they shouldnt be need to be more educated we have been fighting terrorists as serious as it credible is it i mean you can sit here and say that but thats insulting to their internally she says have laws and there is a line between freedom of expression and incitement and murder and we have laws in our country we have a court system and people have to obey the laws and the courts and sundry by the ones who are due to keep these cases and nobody else was to push better all the ngos and all the hidden by talk of stations and virtually every human rights activist is sitting in jail snottery. Why would they make it up do they make up things the sundry internet. Has what did they last may we have a charged with detaining women for asking for the right to drive 1st not true why would you detain somebody for asking for a rate that the king already peirce why would you because chinese do those as you did because thats not the childishness you do they will be the judge but thats a very bad word isnt it no thats the wrong perception they were involved with foreign governments trying to recruit people and sensitive positions in corporate or tame sensitive documents to be used by our enemies thats called espionage and the prosecution when the trials are over what wasnt the evidence you can call it what you libel you saying they were actually a threat to the saudis so it is seems to be yes theyre doing that really thats what the prosecution is saying i dont have access to the courts i can only go by what the entity in saudi arabia that strives with filing charges and thats charged with prosecuting people in terms of trials and thats their position and they have been public about it last month mr you addressed the European Parliament in brussels and you strongly objected to the scrutiny and criticism of those come your way from any peace if you object to that so much why sign up to International Agreements which involve other countries monitoring your compliance or do you just. Except it only when its in your favor to me monitoring the complaint monitoring compliance with agreements youve saw and touches such as. Torture for instance we know youre supposed to have outlawed torture but there are millions of accusations that torture is practiced and they can bring the new ideas they can bring the charges to a court and so people the court would review would a little be investigated you tell the parliament stop criticizing our causes we are a s