Transcripts For DW DocFilm 20240713

This soviet era submarine was once a military threat today its a tourist attraction. In the 1980 s. Millions of people protested against new Nuclear Weapons and entire generation lived in fear. At the end of the cold war thousands of Nuclear Weapons were withdrawn from europe and today top secret bases and Storage Facilities lie abandoned. These bunkers in a former american missile base in germany once housed Cruise Missiles the site now hosts a popular open air electronic Music Festival. The danger of Nuclear Conflict appears to have passed. But now new Nuclear Weapons destined for europe are being tested in the u. S. Nuclear war is more likely now it was at the height of the cold. A Nuclear Problem has not gone away its its changed its become something new and different some analysts call this the 2nd nuclear age. Were facing the most dangerous military and especially Nuclear Security situation in europe today since the collapse of the soviet union that is what we are doing. Well in tartly there is talk of both the german and of a European Nuclear weapon if you ask me a german bomb would be dangerous nonsense but we may find ourselves discussing a european one in the next few years so theyve got. This is the village of michelle in western germany nearby is a German Air Force base where some 20 b. 61 American Nuclear bombs are said to be stored as part of a nato weapons sharing arrangement. Nuclear weapons expert tons christensen works for the federation of american scientists and the Stockholm International Peace Research institute c 3. Christensen is convinced the devices are stored here devices that could be deployed against enemy forces. There are still tactical Nuclear Weapons yes. Only gravity bombs delivered by fighter jet aircraft they are the last remnant of a what used to be an enormous inventory of about 7000 tactical Nuclear Weapons but theyre still here in about 150 of them but only that one time off the air divert traffic fines. If a conflict arose these weapons could also be delivered by German Air Force planes. Merican have bases in europe but theyre also for countries in europe that have host base arrangement as they call it call it a Nuclear Sharing Arrangements germany the netherlands belgium italy and possibly turkey so those countries are the ones who sort of serve a soto Nuclear Strike role where their aircraft would be equipped and handed over Nuclear Weapons in times of war. Until just a few years ago all Political Parties in the german one is talking have been calling for the Nuclear Weapons to be removed. These nato fighter jets are on patrol over the Baltic States their mission is to intercept any Russian Military aircraft that approached nato air space without warning. A number of participants at the annual Munich Security Conference are concerned about growing tensions between east and west. The conference chairman is professor wolfgang ischinger. India and few yons i did. Since the ukraine crisis that is since 2014 thanks weve seen a massive increase in but say incidents. 4 and fortunately these of not lead to a real confrontation so far. For the food solution these incidents have taken place over the north sea the baltic sea and the blacks if theyve involved western and russian more ships and really terrier craft sleeping on the decision military grade. These russian aircraft over the north sea were filmed by the British Royal air force. More and more nato aircraft are taking part in interception Missions Including one just airplanes. Germany is making a substantial contribution to nato is program to help protect the Baltic States. But such busy skies are not without risk. To n. Z. For. Imagine what would happen if for example a Russian Military aircraft crossed the border there by accident or deliberately and was shot down by a western or American Forces like. Theres a big danger such an incident could lead to an escalation that quickly spirals out of control and if. So the tensions present here in europe today are a major cause for concern. Good to. See evidently. These u. S. B. 52 bombers are preparing to take part in a Training Exercise in the Baltic States. Many see this deployment as a message to russia. And it isnt the only message. Weve seen at types of exercises that we havent seen since the cold war were american be 52 bombers to fly up over the north pole to the launch point for Nuclear Cruise missiles and then return to their bases in the United States those kind of strike exercises were not done since the i mean 980 s. It seems as though weve returned to the old game of cat and mouse that was common during the cold war. This situation reminds us trillion antinuclear activist and author Helen Caldicott of a time when the u. S. And the soviet union stood on the brink of nuclear confrontation. With well Robert Mcnamara well who is 60 of friends and was in the oval office with jack kennedy during the cuban missile crisis he said to me hello. You dont close with. 2 within 3 minutes quote unquote. I think this situation could well be compatible with that. Decisions to launch a Nuclear Strike need to be made quickly and then there are the crews who would actually launch the missiles caldicott has heard some alarming reports. The man in the missile silos in america. Is to have minutes to decide their aged 18 to 26 like pavlovian dogs just so nervous or press the button. There with the pistol one shoot if one shows signs of deviant behavior but the deviant one much the other one recently its been determined that many of those men taking l. S. D. Not in their missile silos but beforehand and having wild sock illogical experiences allowing it that taking marijuana cocaine and the like. Caldicott things a Nuclear Strike could be launched by mistake. Here meets dimitri train and a former senior soviet army officer who took part in disarmament negotiations with the us. Both experts are concerned a new cold war may be in the works. Conflict may arise out of a military collision and places like syria and all the way to the Nuclear Level that some in some scenarios and could. Is the election of donald trump further complicated the situation the president has sharply criticized nato and even threatened to pull the us out of the alliance. Shortly after trump was elected Security Policy experts in germany began reviewing the possible consequences of the us defense umbrella becoming less reliable. Some have said that if washington is no longer willing to defend europe then perhaps germany should develop its own Nuclear Weapons. I was surprised when that debate came up in germany because here Nuclear Options have been strictly taboo and that. Back in the 1980 s. Millions of germans took to the streets to protest nato preparations for deploying new Nuclear Missiles in europe to counter a soviet threat. Is a Prominent German political scientist. He has written an essay arguing that the country should lift the nuclear test but. It needs to be made clear that germany as a Nuclear Power would help strengthen the free western world it would support makes one liberal democracies and we need to explain that this would not be directed against any other states it would be purely defensive a deterrent that would enhance our security which is essential. Its not just about war and peace its also about protecting our country from blackmail in crisis situations like these. Nuclear weapons really provide more security for germany so far the government is not debating this question. But tucker has ideas and how would you im a Nuclear Deterrent my function. Could. We could develop mobile Medium Range Missiles that have Nuclear Warheads that would provide low level to terence at a relatively low cost. Another option would be to use Nuclear Capable aircraft. The 3rd option would be to use conventional submarines equipped. With Nuclear Weapons. Could convince you know who want to meet nuclear. And its like if germany were to build such weapons it would create huge Security Problems in europe. And the russians would feel seriously threatened not least because of their experience in world war 2 it must see if that all it does make gun safety trade really like to emphasize that a German Nuclear option would not be directed against russia it would be part of an all round defensive strategy their minds of enough and additional. German Nuclear Weapons program would cost taxpayers several 1000000000. 00 euros per year. And it would create legal problems. Germany renounced the development of Nuclear Weapons as part of the 1994 power treaty that led to unification. As they have it and 1st goes it would be a violation of our obligations if germany were to have its finger on a Nuclear Trigger trigger. That would be completely gone except about us hed no one would trust germany with a bomb anyway with germanys history. But what about the future of the Us Nuclear Program this is the facility in the nevada desert at which the pentagon develops and test weapons. Right now experts are working on these 61 mob 12 the latest version of a tactical and Strategic Nuclear weapon. Its an expensive project. The budget for 2019 alone is estimated to be about 254000000. 00. To be 61 can be deployed with a number of military aircraft including german tornado fighter bombers adaptation of those aircraft was scheduled for 2019 ph you 100 integration refers to the tranny though a 200. In about 58 years there will be a new type of weapon more advanced thats going to be coming back to germany and be deployed here at google. But aircraft have to be configured for that type of aircraft for that type of weapon its called the b. 6112. 00. The tornado is right now undergoing flight test in the United States to be able to deliver this weapon. German tornadoes on a u. S. Facility but youre a military aircraft being outfitted with new u. S. Nuclear weapons could have far reaching consequences. Maxwell downman works for the london based think tank basic which supports Nuclear Disarmament he warns of possible dangers the 1st place russian missiles would go would be the be 61. 00 sites are there all so many hurdles for these things getting off the ground you would need to look at the planes with the bombs because the bombs the plane the bombs on together these would need to take off then this is all presuming that russian missiles are coming and then once theyre flying you need. Refuel them in and and then you would need to fly them into russian aspace past russian Ballistic Missile defense before dropping freefall bombs compare the dots to firing a missile there is huge risks with these things and they realistically would never get off the ground. And some experts say that the aircraft could be easily targeted while they are refueling. So why would germanys air force one to use Nuclear Weapons at all. Those highest. On the one hand we have to make an appropriate conventional contribution so that we can continue to have an influence on policy. But we must also be prepared to bear the burden and it is a burden of having Nuclear Weapons stationed on our territory or if necessary delivered by our aircraft. I think is. But its extremely important to understand the situation as part of our overall Nuclear Strategy. And our ability to help shape policy within the Nato Alliance this is until 70. In short germany can continue to have a say in nato as Nuclear Strategy only if its prepared to use these weapons. This also applies to Nuclear Weapons Modernization Programs there are several nato Member States that say existing stocks of weapons are outdated and need to be replaced. Kinds christensen points out this process is already underway. As far as we can figure out the increased accuracy is about 3 times better then than it is with the existing weapons now what that means is that not only can you strike targets facilities much more fair. But you can also choose lower explosive yield settings for an attack that today require a much higher yield sitting so thats more useable its less radioactive fallout so its a concern that were making Nuclear Weapons more useable. This weapon can be employed in ways its predecessor could not be. And russia will see that and say fine if the west is doing this then we also want to modernize and improve our weapons system or one that can create a new arms race which in turn could lead to a new cold war. Several experts think this is now a distinct possibility. U. S. President donald trump announced his plans regarding Nuclear Policy at his 2018 state of the Union Address as part of our defense we must modernize and rebuild our Nuclear Arsenal hopefully never having 2 years it but making it so strong and so powerful that it will deter any acts of aggression by any other nation or anyone else. Has made clear that the u. S. Reserves the right to launch a Deterrent Nuclear 1st strike. While the United States is in the early phase of a complete overhaul of its Nuclear Arsenal and were talking about everything were talking about all Delivery Systems all warheads Nuclear Infrastructure of the factorise Nuclear Command and control system so its the shoot to taking. In fact its one of the largest projects of its kind. I report compiled by the Congressional Budget Office puts the total cost at 1. 00 trillion dollars as a 20. 17. But it seems likely that the pentagons weapons Modernization Program will be even more expensive than that. By comparison in 2018 germany spent just over 38000000000 euros on defense. The us plans to modernize Nuclear Attack submarines command and control centers for land based Nuclear Missiles and Nuclear Capable aircraft and Cruise Missiles why is the us spending all this money. This is the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in california. Dr brad roberts is director of the Laboratory Center for Global Security Research Roberts was also a Deputy Assistant secretary of defense in the obama administration. He explains why the pentagon wants to upgrade its weapons so the alternative to modernization is unilateral disarmament. We have postponed. Any decision because there are costly and politically very divisive weve postponed any decision about the modernization of our Nuclear Forces for decades the newest u. S. Nuclear weapon in the arsenal one in 1901 there is no weapon that was designed intended to have a shelf life of more than 20 or 25 years. The u. S. Is not only developing new kinds of Nuclear Weapons its also devising new strategies in which those weapons might be used. To some that is a frightening proposition. So is war a gunman thinkable it was. Not thinkable in the 1960 seventies and eighties when the one nuclear war became the problem of armageddon the problem of the end of human history. And its possible the today we have one or 2 or 3 actors who believe that a nuclear war can be won. Because it can be kept women good because we will back down when they employ Nuclear Weapons on a limited basis and if they believe it can be kept when it is and can be won going to can be fought. But high yield Nuclear Weapons are not appropriate for those limited sorts of conflicts. So the us is designing a range of less powerful short range weapons. These are also part of the Modernization Program. In part the answer is yes we do need some new weapons some of the targets we might want to hit in this kind of environment can be destroyed with small Nuclear Weapons that would minimize damage to other things what we call Collateral Damage we could significantly reduce. Nato has deployed these kinds of weapons before until 992 Nuclear Artillery shells were stored at this facility envoys in central germany. These former of one spare officers were stationed at the storage site. There to pick man was commander of a guard unit i mean kind of no germans were allowed inside that was strictly forbidden and we really didnt know what was going on in there it truly was top secret your job i guess was to be ready if the soviet army would come across the hill right it was about Nuclear Battle in europe just how. We explain to our troops again and again that germany was the enemies target. If war were to break out germany would be annihilated so the better prepared we were to defend ourselves the greater the chance that we never have to use those weapons as have them in the pool thats called deterrence and it worked. Any soldier can understand that concept would i. And thats how we explained it to them after you know theyve done the biggest member is in. Until the 1990 s. There were 120 similar storage sites throughout germany and the artillery shells were intended to stop soviet tank forces. The shells had a range of 20 to 30 kilometers so they would have been fired only on german soil this footage shows one such Small Nuclear explosion. There were nuclear antiaircraft missiles and even nuclear mines. There were all sorts of crazy weapons during the cold war period if you look back at that today youd think the world of gone insane because those weapons represented absolute self destruction. There were Nuclear Landmines on the border between east and west germany and the nike hercules air Defense Missile system equipped with Nuclear Warheads nuclear. If nato Nuclear Artillery had been used against soviet tank units it would almost certainly have caused serious damage to the surrounding german countryside. But times changed and nato commanders eventually decided to revise their strategy. They have largely moved away from tactical Nuclear Weapons and the reason they moved the ways because the military didnt need them to solve their military objectives they could use at vance conventional weapons for this instead so now were hearing recommendations that the us needs to enter reintroduce tactical or tactical like Nuclear Weapons with low yield. This museum in the town of damon in the state of mecklenburg for pullman is dedicated to troops of the east german rocket forces. Christensen stops by to inspect some of the equipment. And has given details about how the missiles were deployed that even he didnt know. The museum was set up by former members of the 5th rocket brigade. Theyve restored some of the old cold war era transport vehicles which looked like trucks and hit the short range Ballistic Missiles perfectly. Christensen points out that today tactical that is short range weapons are still a key component of russias Nuclear Arsenal. Its very much a difference in tactics the point is that the Russian Military relies more on tactical Nuclear Weapons because they are a conventional force was considered far less capable so russia has a conventional inferiority if you will and so they use new tactical Nuclear Weapons to compensate for that so we see in the russian navy a large use of tactical Nuclear Weapons for and size ship Cruise Missiles torpedoes depth charges you name it. The u. S. Military has completely phased out those types of weapons it doesnt need them anymore because it has better conventional forces. Some experts say that the fact that russia is economically weaker than the u. S. Is part of why i must go continues to rely on tactical Nuclear Weapons so has the risk of a limited Nuclear Conflict in europe increased. We have. Many many statements from Russian Military and political leaders that they are prepared to employ Nuclear Weapons on a limited basis in a war against nato is war between russia and nato why clee i dont think so is it completely out of the question i wish that it were but its not. So how likely the risk of women to nuclear war is today is very difficult to calibrate but relative to the peaceful period we lived in on the 1990 s. And the decade afterwards its hard. Nato is actively preparing to deal with the threat of a low yield Nuclear Attack we asked professor issuing what he thinks of tactical Nuclear Weapons. And so i decided not much because theyre nothing more than a rehash of proposals put forward during the cold war. At that time there was also talk about miniaturized Nuclear Weapons. And portable Nuclear Weapons which a soldier could carry half a kilometer across the border could set up and then detonated by remote control. Good. Fences exploded all these things could do more to promote them to escalate conflicts than to prevent the leaks for he. Has repeatedly expressed its concern about moscows recent deployment of mobile short range Nuclear Capable missiles in the kaliningrad region. A strip of russian territory between poland and lithuania. The missiles range extends almost. 2800 nato held a Training Exercise in the Baltic States and poland 19 nato states and partners including france took part. From a military standpoint it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to defend the Baltic States against a russian attack involving armored divisions and tens of thousands of troops. On some. German soldiers also took part. Then you know which side is. Here read units defend themselves against an attack by blue units. The. Strategically better to wait than to fire blindly and give away your position. But thats fun to show man finds we engage the enemy infantry and took out quite a few of us came from his own i redeployed my men in a stream bed which is a good defensive position. Right now were waiting for the next enemy attack. Which they are probably preparing right now is fine this is good of and also says the doctor in. Germany is leading a nato force in lithuania that involves 1200 troops from 10 Member States. The units were sent to strengthen the alliances defenses along europes border with russia. Mines we trained together with the Nato Battle Group and of course with our lithuanian allies mines on here just how much territory can you actually defend here. Because. Right now a strip of land about 10 kilometers wide. 10 kilometers is not much in the grand scheme of things find the enemy probably a platoon strength attackers driven back. But what is the true purpose of these nato exercises. There more to reassure their balls than to throw up the russians and if if the current status is maintained i dont think that a lot of people in russia will be losing sleep over a few battalions of nato forces in the Baltic States. Fueling i think that many of the predictions about what could happen in the baltics are exaggerated. I dont believe lattimer putin is waiting for the opportunity to bring the region back to russia in some sort of glorious battle. Because if he were then honestly the uncertainty donald trump introduced into the western alliance would have been the moment for russia to strike. But they didnt. So i dont think theres any serious danger of war in the Baltic States at the present time the critical flaw anaesthetise in by. In the 1970 s. The soviet union deployed s. S. 20 intermediate range Nuclear Missiles in european russia these weapons were capable of hitting targets in most of western europe. European politicians demanded a response. And nato proposed stationing Nuclear Capable pershing 2 and ground launched Cruise Missiles in western europe. The soviet union feared that this deployment could lead to a nato 1st strike. Millions of people across europe demonstrated against what appeared to be a new round in the arms race. The protests in germany were the largest since the end of world war 2. In the end instead of a strike there was a handshake in october 1906 u. S. President Ronald Reagan and soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev met in reykjavik to sign a treaty that would eliminate all u. S. And soviet land based short range an intermediate range missiles. This was the socalled i. N. F. Treaty. By 991. 00 the 2 sides had eliminated a total of nearly 2700. 00 missiles. Some of the Cruise Missiles that were eliminated under terms of the agreement had been stored in facilities like this in germany. Christensen says the treaty was unprecedented in its scope. It was the 1st class agreement that simply eradicated an entire class of missiles what was also important was that it had a very strong verification regime with on site inspections both at the sites but all the launch sites but also as you know factories and what have you so so it was a really. New way of doing arms control many saw that sort of later as a 1st step toward elimination of Nuclear Weapons globally. This is nature one and open air electronic Music Festival held every august at the site of a decommissioned u. S. Cruise missile base near the town of custom in western germany. But the missiles removed from this base are once again causing tensions in october 2800 President Trump said russia had been cheating on the i. N. F. Treaty. Russia has violated the agreement theyd been violating it for many years and i dont know why president obama didnt negotiate for full out that were not going to let them violate a Nuclear Agreement when they go out and do weapons and were not allowed to were the ones that have stayed in the agreement and we wanted the agreement but russia is not one fortunately on to the agreement so were going to terminate the agreement were going to pull out that. Yeah nothing. President trump statement shocked the world in for every 2019 russia announced it would also suspend the i. M. F. Pact. But even before that washington was concerned that russia had been testing a new ground launch Cruise Missile and a new Ballistic Missile similar to the use. Of biden. Was im concerned that on both the american now the russian side the hardliners could prevail. These are people who believe the best course of action is to arm the other side. There are military experts in russia who believe that given the overall strategic balance of power russia has no choice but to increase its reliance on Nuclear Weapons. Because of the bargain that of nuclear. States. When does the mood here was that the man that if a conflict develops. Using Nuclear Weapons early on forced the west to desist and and such a conflict. Which is a very high Risk Strategy in my opinion thats in my nose its a good feel if you are legal. Some experts say that the us decided to suspend its participation in the i. N. F. Treaty so that it could deal with an increasingly aggressive china. I think it has less to do with nato. Frankly speaking i think it has more to do with china because china has a lot of. Intermediate range forces. And russia has a lot of other forces in this part of. Europe that they can use to target anything they want in europe anyway so it doesnt really make militarily sense here. At the same time russia says nato is cheating on the i n f agreement by deploying Missile Defense systems in romania and poland. U. S. Navy ships outfitted with anti missile interceptors are on duty in the mediterranean sea. Washington says all of these systems are intended to protect against missile attacks from iran. Human head of the russian say that the u. S. Missile Defense Systems in Eastern Europe rob violation of the i. N. F. Treaty experts disagree on whether thats true but in any case the treaty is in a pretty sorry state right now in kind them wouldnt that well their mutual accusations from the United States and russia about the other side violating the treaty the best way of course would be for both sides to sit down. And discuss here that exploits would need no more than a couple of weeks. To fix the whole thing but in the current political crisis in the current political situation between the United States and russia it looks like all virtually impossible which is which is very sad because we may be losing the treaty within a year. In 2018 the trumpet ministration released the latest version of the Nuclear Posture review which outlines the pentagons plans for modernizing americas Nuclear Arsenal as a deterrent to both nuclear and nonnuclear aggression. The plan in part calls for the deployment of new or updated versions of Cruise Missiles to be based on submarines. The u. S. Could deploy the missiles without having to ask its nato allies. And some experts say that this could cause political friction. This past heated is that whats tricky about the plan is that if the u. S. Were to deploy its own Cruise Missiles on its own submarines it would circumvent getting nato approval. That is precisely because the u. S. Knows full well that such a one sided move would have set the other nato partners uses tiamat the. Looked out for me and it causes or im quite concerned. That u. S. Policy may end up in the hands of those who believe that russian violations of the i. M. F. Treaty suite mean washington they must now also develop new intermediate range Nuclear Weapons these that would be the depth of the agreement if. They hadnt thought so if the i. N. F. Treaty collapses you will have no treaty or system governing medium range Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Missiles im Cruise Missiles in europe these weapons are specifically a danger and risk to european to your to europeans because the. Range holds european cities and capitals so while this treaty is between the u. S. And russia it really affects europeans. President verbal attacks on nato have raised grave concerns some experts are no longer certain that the Us Nuclear Umbrella is still committed to protecting europe or if america would come 1st in a crisis. Here a nato delegation is inspecting a French Nuclear submarine. Could Alliance Members strengthen Nuclear Policy cooperation so as to reduce their reliance on the us. Would it be possible for europe to develop its own Nuclear Weapons. And. There is a loophole that might allow for that. The department went to sleep in the hot. In 1969 by the new west german chancellor simon nonproliferation treaty. But he did so with the caveat that a future european Political Alliance might be allowed to consider the development of Nuclear Weapons because. They have friends who are in that alliance it might be possible at least in theory for germany to become a Nuclear Power. As with as. I dont want to completely rule out the possibility that i do for European Defense union more to beautify elop to along the lines where you proposed. That organization mart also have Nuclear Power and thanks largely to French Nuclear capability. Of the francis roof. But recent polls indicate that more than 70 percent of germans are opposed to the development possession deployment and use of Nuclear Weapons. And some experts agree with those sentiments. That would be a massive mistake to try to reintroduce such a weapon in europe because they were truly back in the sort of the dynamic of the cold war. I think the cold war made it clear that an increase in Nuclear Weapons does not enhance security but ultimately increases in security on both sides sides like it. And i call it seems nice to the sides dont trust each other. And thats a tremendously dangerous situation to be and considering the destructive power of these thousands and thousands of Weapons Systems inform us and since the. Nuclear weapons are once again making headlines in europe whether its low yield devices or Cruise Missiles on submarines if the hardliners on all sides gain the upper hand it could mean the end of a relatively peaceful period in modern european history. Consumers around the world are in a shopping frenzy. Online sales are moving in the run up to christmas. Digital retailers changing comes on board culture. How will this affect businesses protection being. Made in germany 13. Dollars. Into the conflict zone with teams. Sebastian. My guest this week here in rome is the jesuit priest of the hans solo who is a leading expert closer to abuse of a mother could you face the boss you can sue is this about wheelchair or will it continue to provide opportunity and cover for priests who commit these awful produce conflict. In 90 minutes on d w. D was the speech of his life tramps his best and certainly his most difficult. Speech but coolly interest him on december 19th 1989. Shortly after the fall of the of the chancellor addresses of the people of east germany you know the mideast tense the crowd clamors for the german unity journalist peter lim borg was at the scene. 30 years later he looks back on the time of interest and. Starts december 19th d. W. This is the news and these are our top stories in mars leader aung sang suu kyi has told the u. N. Stop court that there was no genocidal intense behind her countrys military campaign against broke engine muslims 2017 or than 700000 broke and just fled to neighboring bangladesh during the plucky crackdown. In the u. K. It was the last day of campaigning before thursdays parliamentary election a closely watched poll suggests