A volatile situation and we ask old faces new alliances who will win the battle for syria. Thanks very much for joining us here on the show and my panel is made up of 3 guests here they are beginning with christine held back a featured mideast analyst with a number of european publications she says with his plan for northeast and syria putin has made both added one and our sad happy its the kurds who are paying the price also with us now imposing their regular commentator for the berlin based 82. 00 fellows who argues russia and iran have already won the struggle for syria now its important for the west not salutes turkey and a warm welcome to charlie rose to me a form to w. s Turkish Department he believes turkeys only k. The syrian arrow is to constrain the perceived security threats and help us out remain in power. Or pursue her book about to begin with you and ask you i mean its been a really torrid week in syria once again and id like to ask you sir if you would sort of medicare where we find ourselves now at the end of that torrid week and where this is leading for the the cruelly poor Syrian People i mean the battle for syria decided i would argue you know Bashar Al Assad the syrian president won the war militarily with the help of bloody me putin and russia it is just militarily won the war he is regaining control of the last remaining regions which is to the west with military force with the support of the Russian Air Force basically and the north east which she will go back to smoothly and by doing so destroying kurdish autonomy so its decided to this extent and very important is the big guy who holds all the strings in the bank all industries pulling the strings and he does so very cleverly because now he gave out who wants to some extent what he wanted an area inside syria to resettle Syrian Refugees to control it to maybe build some kind of other talkers protectorate and giving the whole north east back to bashar assad is just like all but the problem of let me put it is the following he kept assad in power but he has not the financial means to stabilize this regime so this is why he needs something that looks like a political solution to make the west pay for reconstruction and to normalize relations with damascus so thats the big plan afoot to know how to get a political solution something that looks so to make everybody conciliate with assad ok very fascinating insights to begin with jennifer give us an idea of all the turkish people are saying about the latest developments about turkey having such a central presence now in. Syria. The situation in turkey is quiet like there is only one voice of whats going on in syria and that is pretty much consul lated by the fact that the media is pretty much console they did under the influence of the government so. When the incursion started apart from the protest party h. T. T. P. Almost everybody in turkey was kind of line up behind i or the one including the Main Opposition Party including the voices that we were thinking that the would kind of challenge ireland in the future they were just all pro incursion and that is mostly be because of the fact that this operation is being perceived as as a vital threat to turkey like threats that would. Put turkish lives at risk so people kind of went opposite after the army and said that were all supporting the incursions may have been on the long term not the political repercussions of it when it comes to the security on the border yes there was this huge consensus in the country which is very surprising considering the reactions coming from the other parts of the world to them to be concerns about the fact that Bashar Al Assad is now resurgent as we just heard from kristen and they have already been clashes between turkish units and Syrian Regime units yeah well those clashes were mostly its hard to support a militia units i and they are like just reporters and we dont know for a fact at the moment and those skirmishes could happen because its a war zone and in those wars owns these things always happen it doesnt mean that the turkish army is fighting Bashar Al Assads army at the moment but i think what is going on in turkey at the moment on the political level as well on the societal level is that people are focusing on the short term. Comes off the operation rather than the long term outcomes and we need to have a healthy environment to discuss all the aspects of these and i dont think its being discussed widely at the moment in turkey because of the political atmosphere okie dokie ill imposed a new stage in syrias recent history no question mark. Well obviously its a new stage in the history of the whole region because basically from what when the british with through in 48 till just recently america was the only name in the game it was the power broker that for all the you know the egyptian israeli reconciliation for most everything and now and after the and now the only name of the game is really new putin and maybe the people in iran. This is an incredibly sad geopolitical shift. And we have in the case of turkey a nato member. Openly against the wishes of its partners to align itself with with russia which we consider an adverse or e. This is its huge its not just serious the whole region and the european sort of depth very quickly to this fact that the u. S. Are out of the game of the middle east and they are not even very much they dont have a lot of affects from the problems in the middle east contrary to europe you know all the all the consequences will be felt inside europe and as mr trump by true pointed out that the u. S. Is 10000 kilometers far away and we are just neighbors so its up to the europeans to think more. In the long term perspective and to formulate visions and interests in the region and how to put them forward and it is ok i know a lot of the attention this past week has inevitably been devoted to the death of a bar dont be the leader of the socalled Islamic States apparently took his own life after being hunted down by u. S. Special forces so what exactly beat him so important. In the end all that was left of the worlds most wanted terrorist was a gaping crater. Selfappointed caliph of the Islamic State terrorist group was no charismatic leader and compared to al qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden who. Killed in afghanistan in 2011 by a Us Military Special operations unit. Well the daddy lacked in public image any more than made up for him to tell. You bears responsibility for thousands of deaths torture and slave men attacks by isis the world over. Us President Donald Trump was unabashedly triumphant when he announced albert doubt hes killing he died like a dog he died like a coward the world is now a much safer place. And security analysts have little doubt that isis has enough financial means and fighters to pose a continuing threat. As al baghdadi is death really made the world a safer place. To me whats your answer to that question donald trump says the world is a safer place is it while in the short term it might appear to be so because isis has been already disorganized for the last few good months and. It couldnt carry out the attacks that it used to and the difference the main difference between isis and the organizations like al qaeda was that isis controlled a swath of territory for you know a few good years so in that sense i think. Its a setback for isis in general but the ideology is there or the conditions at which People Choose to join the ices and choose to fight against what they claim to be threats against islam and arrests are going to be there and its not going to go anywhere because the forces the conditions that create isis remains the same in the in the end of the day christine you have been noting yes i come to agree with that you know the ground for Extremist Organization is very felt all over the region you know with perspective the Economic Perspective that the sends. Humiliation and you know not the opting for political participation this is these are all conditions that create a filter highground for any kind of Extremist Organization and isis has not disappeared even in syria we have almost on a daily level we have in the northeast we had attacks car bombs whatever they have just gone underground and they now use the chaos that was created by the turkish invasion you know to break out of these prisons to reorganize themselves and to us to kind of reorganize themselves and to recruit among the people that are there a lot of family Members Around there so they will just they will start to be be another force and they dont theyre not disappearing and i dont think that the world is a lot more safer now you know what about donald trump whats whats his position now let me get to the hes ordered this mission against dudie hes wallowed in the success of the mission does that mean that he has learned the error of his ways in india surely appearing to withdraw u. S. Forces completely from syria no i think. Thats an aberration i mean they had the opportunity theyve been planning this for a long time for months and they and they carted out with punish had self to the u. S. Special forces into the people who helped them. Every dead terrorist is a good terrorist but. The fact is that on the one hand he does this and on the other hand as been pointed out he pulls out of an area leaving. The kurds who are god ing thousands if not more of i says terrorists in the lurch theyre visiting these camps of course because they have to fight or have to relieve the region and these terrorists are going to come back home not to find states to europe the fact is that donald trump has decided to cut his losses in the middle east hes decided we spent 5 trillion dollars there weve lost 7000. 00 men were going to go home and leave it to the rest of the world to sort it out he said he said oh these people have to fight it out its like 2 kids on a school in a School Ground you have to fight well its not going to be like that it might look that way from washington but its not going to be got for us because these isis terrorists are going to come home to us if if if russia of course the shots in the middle east were going to see the consequences in myriad ways theyre going to assert themselves more in europe later too and so on and so on and so on and we didnt even take responsibility for the isis fighters that have all nationalities right talking about 84. 00 german isis fighters and the family members a 3rd of them is considered to be danger danger us so we should have taken them before this is what the kurds asked us for this is what the trump asked us for and we still try to you know keep them away you know to and now they will come in a regulated way which makes it even more dangerous americans got permission from the russians to use the air space to day control to carry out the bug the mission what does not tell us about the bizarre and often unfathomable relationship between Vladimir Putin and donald trump at this point in time that when it comes to terrorism. They are ready to cooperate but its very interesting to discuss where he was hiding he was hiding in the north and part of it live example life kilometers away from turkey took a supposed to control the area with 13 observation posts so what are they going to doing out of was they not do not i i dont get mean i personally cannot speculate on that whether turkey had the intel that he was hiding over there or not they might have some intel about it but we shouldnt forget the fact that for the government in turkey the private private priority at the moment is Syrian Democratic forces or 130 causes why p. G. So isis has always been a threat to turkey it carried out attacks in turkey it killed so many people incurred in turkey as well but at the end of the day its the white p. G. That turkey is prioritizing its mission into so and it was foci who let all these foreign fighters pass through turkey to reach during during the war you also said since the Syrian Opposition to take part in the in the Northern Syria ok it also speculation one thing is for sure developments in recent weeks have certainly played into the hands of god in it putin as we see now. Turkish president rate chip air to one needed a favor from russian president putin. Turkey a nato partner found itself asking its old bold russia for permission to intervene militarily in Northern Syria. The images make plain the new balance of power in the region lattimer putins russia is now the dominant peacekeeper in syria the agreement between putin and everyone gives a boost to syrian president bashar assad through him putin can secure his position in the region in return assads getting nearly one 3rd of his territory back while the stations troops along the Turkish Border in the north. After withdrawing its forces the United States has virtually no part left to play is the u. S. Fading to a Regional Power while russia returns as a word. Power. Was looked out already lets just talk a little bit more about Vladimir Putin the report suggests that hes the new good dominant player in the region i think thats what you said earlier if he is the dominant player in the region is it a good thing or about thing its a terrible thing of course i mean for one thing he doesnt have the means to back up the power hes got russias economy the size of spain right they cannot control a world empire which they just falling into that into their lap due to the west and. I dont know not caring and so he he can be what he wants to be in the end hes hes managed to to as a side but its just the beginning of the complications further down the road theres no way that russia can impose the kind of peace the kind of thing that the Pax Americana once was and hes definitely not a peacekeeper i mean it was just that he is the only peace keeper and he was keeping peace inside syria everybody just intervening for his own interest and if you talk about russia you have to mention that in it lived during the last few months and years lots of medical places hospitals were attacked its 54 hospital since april and we have a very very Strong Research by the New York Times that in very detailed form proves that that was an attack on 4 hospitals within 12 hours by the Russian Air Force so this is very crucial to understand how readily putin leads a war against civilians you know and its not an anti terror war but if he says brothers who are serving me here in the influence of law to me putin is baleful as you are making out why is turkey going so promiscuously to bed with me britain i think turkey has been pushed to those to do that in one way and 3 pushed by the west pushed by the nato and pushed by most importantly the United States. So whenever turkey wanted to get something out of the u. S. Whether that be the Patriot Missile systems that was not approved by the Obama Administration that turkey had to go to russia knocked on the door and said we want as for the for 400. 00 Missile Systems and it was only after that that the u. S. Decided to put sanctions on turkey because it might potentially threaten the Radar Systems of 35. 00 fighter jets that are coming up so in all cases turkey has been somehow pushed to the to the russians to be able to deal with its perceived soakers thats right thats one thing and on another level turkey has used this double game as a leverage over time it also used that during the cold war where it was aligned with Nato Alliance and soviets were the enemy but turkey sometimes was using that to get what you wanted and ireland has been playing this cards for a good 20 years almost now and as like the context is so complicated right now in the ground like sometimes are going can i get what he wants sometimes put it can i get what he wants sometimes trump kind of get what he wants and i think theyre just trying to find a way to maneuver in this making you go along in this in this puzzle and find a way to get what they want but the sad part is that its not up to trump in a more its not up to the u. S. President any more so counterbalance the reactions coming from the from the u. S. Itself so youve seen the resolutions on the decisions just passed over the past 2 days from the. That is in the u. S. And they have the super majority to put sanctions on turkey so trump cannot be the gatekeeper to veto these decisions in a more so. Don needs to find a way to call miss not only trump but also the other u. S. Representatives to be able to stop the huge sanctions coming up now because our south his wealth is being under investigation in the us or will be but i would argue that a certain chemistry between adeline and putting right because these are 2 autocrats theyre not very effectively pushing their own interests you know and if you remember its 4 years ago that turkey would down russia fighter jet and everybody was afraid of a new war and you had sanctions very strong reactions from moscow and then have a year later there were just you know 2 guys clapping that shows that ok lets look together again you know theyre very pragmatic theyre very quick in their decisions and this is what the west especially western europe liberal democracies cannot follow on you know theyre looking very thoughtful and im wondering if i mean that there are a growing number of voices just come back to turkey saying that turkey should somehow be arming the no theres no way that we can actually be done theres no mechanism in nature but somehow turkey should be ejected from nato that would be the total wrong reaction i mean look you know you dont have to say