Transcripts For DW Close Up 20240714 : comparemela.com

Transcripts For DW Close Up 20240714

A shot at least we know that this man is in germany he was involved in numerous crimes against civilians in the middle east. Suspected war criminals like mohammad s. Joined of the many Syrian Refugees who have come to germany now the German Authorities and other groups are working to track them down they say no criminals should feel safe well as ive often thought why should we do this because no one else says and because these are the worst crimes weve seen in decades that it seems to go off the top these are colorless to hannahs atrocities committed against human beings must not go unpunished. Last year we discovered lists on line drawn up by syria. Davis says. They provided the names and photos of alleged syrian war criminals are said to have gone into hiding in germany. In many cases the lists provided no compelling evidence. But the allegations against this matter mohammad s. Were detailed and specific so we decided to see what more we could find out. Where on our way to see someone who says he used to live in the syrian city of aleppo in the same neighborhood as mohammed as. The man who we still call ahmed is afraid of mohammad s. And doesnt want to be identified on camera. He begins to tell us what he knows. Mohammad s. And i are from the same part of Northern Aleppo from honduras likely enough soon after the start of the uprising in syria in 2011 he set up a militia called the out codes brigade. And capture that he started being very aggressive towards ordinary civilians especially demonstrators he would beat them lock them up and kill them. Did not only hear about the crimes committed by the out codes brigade he says he even witnessed some of them. According to him the militia was led by 2 men one of whom was mohammad s. There appear to be at least 2 groups that are fought in syria under the name of coots one has been mainly active in Northern Aleppo. We find propaganda videos posted online by the group. On mon mohammad s takes a reporter from a lebanese broadcaster through the rubble of his neighborhood showing her from where they were shot at and where the fighters have been hiding. The brigade is considered part of the socalled shut behind network of state sponsored militia largely made up of former civilians armed by the regime of bashar al assad. German authorities investigating suspected syrian militants are well aware of these groups. Our source ahmad makes specific allegations. I was there when mohamed asked threatened a doctor at gunpoint when he tried to treat wounded civilians. These people had been shot and injured near our neighborhood. So they were taken to see a doctor. I was there when mohammad s. And his brothers threatened to kill the doctor. They said he mustnt give medical treatment to the wounded civilians. But says mohammed has also gave the order to shoot at unarmed protesters and recruited child soldiers for the war. Its impossible for us to verify many of his statements but we continue to search for more witnesses. Which brings us to the federal criminal Police Office near bonn this building houses germanys central unit for the fight. Against a war crimes cost so on and his team deal every day with statements that are difficult to verify the Police Officers here investigate cases even if theyve been carried out in syria. Ive also always gentle states that even when a non german citizen commits a crime against another on german outside of germany if the crimes are extremely serious like genocide war crimes or crimes against humanity then we can investigate it from here in germany. If the suspected perpetrator is in germany so on and his team are called in statements from victims and witnesses are vital for the Police Officers here and play a key role in the investigation. Its the large number of statements from witnesses that concur with one another and the many investigations that start to give us a picture. And ultimately its this evidence from witnesses that allows us to build up a case. In. The police here are currently investigating more than 2500 such leads. We cross the country to berlin. Here the European Center for constitutional and human rights or e. C. C. H. R. For short provides Legal Support for victims of war crimes and crimes against humanity. Patrick coca and is responsible for the ngos work on syria lets get this 4 of them. In full of the 4th focused mainly on the allegation of torture and torture can be a war crime and it could also be a crime against humanity. What both these crimes have in common is that they are only punishable under International Law within a certain context which is a context but increase published in the case of war crimes that context is Armed Conflict it made. A civil war or transnational one. Once thats been determined the crimes under International Law such as killing detention torture abuse of prisoners excited become war crimes and then. The e. C. C. H. R. Helps victims to give evidence on the abuses theyve experienced but its not just about the individual cases the Nonprofit Organization is looking to prove that the individual perpetrators in syria are part of a system of torture and murder targeting the civilian population. And to do that they need evidence. From a. Month in the war about the time was born 13 years after his brothers. Weve actually been hoping for a girl. Before that he had a wonderful childhood flick it. Up to him was a very good looking boy who when he was a quiet tidy. Totally different from his brothers. And he was an outstanding student at school. So. The story of my yamaha knocks on a home is one of many that could help prove systematic torture and cover up on the part of the syrian regime. In late 20 s levon her son was arrested by the secret police for the 2nd time in just a few months. They tied his hands behind his back. And then beat him in the stomach and you dont. Hit it in the used players to rip the nails off his fingers and they push needles through his ears. They wanted to pull all his teeth out as well but one of the guards said he couldnt bear to watch unfold so he hit him over the head with a club and. She says a ham was then packed into a car and taken to a different prison. For months she didnt know where her son was. It was only later that she was informed by the syrian authorities that her son had died of a heart attack. But one of the hams fellow prisoners told her what really happened. With no doctor was being held with him in the same cell because what. The doctor knocked on the door of their cell is called out to the guard. And you need to save this young man he said. Hes got internal bleeding. Just nobody is just that the guard told him just tell me when hes dead. 5 days later he was. The guard then had a doctor come and certify. That. Years later photos appeared online showing the bodies of those who died in the prisons of the assad regime including a man they became known as the caesar photos. This is my sons corpse number 320 and the division that arrested him to 15 on. The photo of a hammer is one of thousands of shocking images taken by a Syrian Military defector code named caesar. Between 20112013 caesar photographed the bodies of prisoners who died in Syrian Government detention facilities and. Im one of the lawyers representing the seas a group. We brought the photos to germany weve been working with the e. C. C. H. And with other organizations in germany and in sweden to bring charges against syrian leaders on the basis of these photos. To be. A money while im self feed to international. Media the number has been written directly on the body. This is the symbol for syrias air force Intelligence Service and here on the paper is the victims number. All and here again force intelligence. And finally the corpses been given a number. When we look at the photos smuggled out by caesar its clear that this torture is terrible and above all systematic its always the same injuries that we see on. The bodies of the prison those that and even now prisoners in syria suffering the same torture every day. After fleeing syria madea on how doc shared everything she knew with the e. C. C. H. R. And the German Authorities. The syrian lawyer abraham sam knows her story and has often asked her to repeat it. How long was he detained the 1st time. In 33 days in the 1st prison and another 33 in the 2nd. The ngo range for the photos to be passed on to the German Federal Prosecutors Office which after months of forensic tests concluded they are genuine. This is had some device. And the value of this evidence is incredible its almost like having access to mass graves in syria which is out of the question that youd suddenly have thousands of photos of many many people believed to have been tortured to death would not if that would afford to mention these photos can be analyzed as evidence by forensic medical experts and can be studied properly in an investigation like this. Fog. But the photos are only part of the investigation into war crimes committed in syria. The authorities still need those who are willing to give evidence and there are many syrians in germany ready to do just that and to testify against other syrians not living in germany. Its that its just for the past 8 years this has been an unbelievably dirty war with the worst atrocities you can imagine being committed on all sides. So theres an unbelievable number of perpetrator. Then you have this huge exodus this is people changing sides others deserving and lots of people running away and of course some of those people were involved in the crimes. And hottest on i think its a logical consequence of this chaos of war you can click civilian have holes. Speak this inside you could secularly since we had the big influx of refugees weve been able to engage with many of the victims and witnesses and speak to them and question them. And we have indeed carried out many interviews from the moment to whats. Next were off to switzerland. Period lago majority we meet the woman who had hoped to get syrian war criminals brought before the International Criminal court in a. Colorado punter. In 1990 she was appointed chief prosecutor for United Nations tribunal is on war crimes in rwanda and the former yugoslavia in 2012 she joined a new u. N. Commission to investigate crimes in syria it had no power to prosecute so del ponte they called repeatedly for an International Tribunal for syria. Oh. But i wanted to apply pressure to try to convince the security council. Well i would ask do you want to do something or not. Do you want justice for the victims or dont you do we want this president to be brought to trial. Like. That even if hes 55 years i worked on it hoping something would happen but nothing did. With the heat. So i left i was frustrated i had really had enough. To get over. The Un Security Council has long been divided over syria good pointers as the be top hours russia and china opposed establishing a tribunals so whats left to the nation states to try to bring individuals to trial in c. T. In the house. We dont have an International Tribunal for syria but the National Courts are at least getting some of the lower ranking perpetrators and thats good this is good so German Authorities are free to investigate suspected war criminals in syria if the suspects are in germany they are in fact required to do so under german law. We continue our efforts to track down war crimes suspect mohammad s. A new witness wants to talk to us about what he knows he lives near the french border. He too wants to remain anonymous for fear of muhammad s. The 2 of them used to be neighbors in Northern Aleppo he tells us. I remember one as a tense well. At a checkpoint near our neighborhood with a car as a zuki was shot at by government troops. 4 members of one family were sitting on the back seat. The father was wounded by the shots so the family fled to our neighborhood we immediately brought the severely wounded man to a doctor who then mohammad s. And his brothers turned out they were the leaders of a militia they wanted us to give them the man even though he was severely wounded. They refused to hand over the wounded man this witness this statement is very similar to that of the 1st one although told from a different perspective. The events are said to have taken place here in a suburb of aleppo were ahmed has sent his brigade thought. The new witness is able to identify some of the other militants. The calls of. This boy here was only a minor with. His name was out on. The other whether he was 13 years old when he started fighting. He was killed in the conflict when he was 15 or 16 plus and. So mohammed has is said to be the leader of a group that recruited a 13 year old child soldier the most specific indication of a war crime so far and thats not all the witness says he heard mohammad as giving instructions by phone to carry out an air raid on a school. That ive been in it was between the 20th and 24th of november 2012 i no longer remember the exact date of. You know why. It was just before sundown so between 5 and 6 in the evening. Me and mohamed s. Was standing right outside his front door. Not inside the house or beside it. And then i heard him say the name of the school. That i see his exact words were. There on time it was and theyre in this area and this school nasr aide in a bakery. But he says the people inside the School Building were not armed they were civilians who had fled from the fighting so according to our witness hamad s. Had ordered an air raid on civilians the most serious allegation weve heard so far. We then meet with a syrian human rights lawyer and more are bony. He estimates that around a 1000 syrian war criminals are not hiding in europe hes taking us to see someone who was tortured in syrian detention but survived to him. Were going to see a witness who gave a statement on a very specific case. And its partly because of his statement that 2 suspects are now in custody here in germany. I was the witness was a victim of these 2 men will. He tell the German Federal prosecutor how they tortured him. Moaning is highly respected within large parts of the Syrian Community in europe. Many syrians trust him because he spent decades as a lawyer representing political dissidents in syria. He also spent 5 years in a syrian prison. With him and the background victims are more emboldened to talk. The 2 men greet each other warmly. Well the 1st time i was arrested it was at the start of the demonstrations in 2011 by then i wanted to take photos one of the demonstrations and there were others needs to be filming and taking photos to. Talk about suddenly just after the end of the rally i was arrested by people from the secret service you. Know suffered a lot. Of. Mossad ahmad quite clear was arrested several times he says he was tortured every time and that those responsible are now in germany. Head of the department or arrested him identified only as anwar are and one of his henchmen he had a. German federal prosecutor had both of them arrested at the start of this year. But he had a was then released in may. We managed to get in contact with his brother and wanted to interview him but the brother refused shortly after that the authorities rearrested ai today. Of course when i was in syria there was no way i could press charges against these men. I was so pleased when i heard that germany wants to prosecute war crimes. That encourage me to go to the old florida keys and give evidence i see it as a chance to get justice not only for me but for all the other prisoners to. The 2 suspects are expected to go on trial early next year. Help us and the survivors are our main lead yet as this case shows where 2 people are now in custody anwar are and. It was through contact with the witnesses that we are supporting that we discovered that this anwar are was said to be in germany. But once we realized the federal prosecutor was already investigating it was clear that we didnt need to take any action that we were content then to just support their investigations. We want to know what syrian lawyer and oil burning knows about the suspect weve been investigating mohamed s. We share with him the information we received about possible crimes carried out by muhammad s. But you have to show. We know that this man is in germany. He belonged to the brigade in Northern Aleppo in 100 out. We assume that he was involved in numerous crimes against civilians in the middle east how we currently trying to gather as much evidence on him as we can. And that the norms that are and how to. Hes real. We discover that muhammad s. Lives in the northwestern german city of us not book. So we set out to find him. But we soon discover that hes given out a number of fake addresses. We go to inquire at one of the locations. We show the photograph of the suspect to one of the residents he tells us that hes been living here for 20 years and has never seen the man in the photo. But then we strike lucky. We meet someone who knows mohammad us from doing a german language course. He tells us mohammad has smoked a lot and seemed restless and stressed none of the other pupils knew where he lived if he met up with anyone then only in town. Were told that even when he has his furniture delivered he has it dropped at this open space. His behavior is certainly unusual. Finally right nearby we find him mohammad s suspected war criminals living with his family and no way in this residential complex. We identify ourselves as coming from german public television. Which i am that weve received information that he fought in syria and ask him if we could talk about it. He invites us in. He tells us he doesnt want to be identified on television here in germany back in syria he seemed to enjoy the attention of television cameras. But now he says it could endanger members of his family back at home. He came to germany by plane via iran he says and he confirms that hes the man on the photos but he cofounded the brigade and let it. He says they were politically neutral and fought o

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