A former Justice Minister with moldova now a by word for corruption you see a sharing of peace partys record in government. Which i will tell you welcome to conflict zone. And play some here have discussions your party lost the battle to hold on to power but you deserve to lose in the way didnt you because democracy was increasingly undermined under your watch and there was massive corruption which you did very little about so you deserved to go didnt you really it depends how to look at that and i would disagree with something related to decryption sput yes indeed i can say that we have lots of critics related to democracy tendencies in republic of moldova there were 2 democratic parties and undertook while undertaking the mandate in the governance in 2016. In truth a lot in social and economical performances being for example the salaries increased in the public area by 70 percent there are excel ariston the pensions last year you were sure in the world that the Democratic Party was implementing european standards at home thats what you said in september yes here europe was telling a completely different story about you the European Parliament condemned what it called an increasing backsliding on core values related to democratic standards so much for your european standards and also added that moldova was trapped by oligarchic interests with economic and political power in the hands of a small group of people exerting their influence on parliament the government Political Parties state of ministration police and judiciary in other words your assurances about european standards were worthless well no i would disagree with that because in my opinion this was a political statement and we can have different opinions you display this because it has been done by a Political Group who is based on findings that they discovered when they came here. Talks that theyve been having a list again did you see did he show any on evaluation or a some a some reports regarding to that because they havent seen and everything that could be measured has been measured with a significant progresses bads thats what i wanted the view of the e. U. The council of europe Freedom House the un the Us State DepartmentAmnesty International oh i see Bertelsmann Foundation there was remarkable unanimity about the state of democracy and corruption in this country from them wasnt but let me please explain otherwise if you want to hear me because while i would divide those chilly shoes i would divide the corruption and i would divide the democracy why because well talking about corruption since 2006. Seen they were the most progress is that ever have been done in republic of lower in fighting corruption was the 1st cases where ministers the Prime Ministers and other very high officials have been prosecuted the u. S. Court is elektra of justice now if selective just one were talking about the ministers that were in our government i wouldnt say that it was selective because selective means then when you are prosecuting all everyone except your once but it wasnt the case and it also said you undermined the processes the judicial processes thats also a little view of the United States well it was some new shoes well but this is not related more than some issues is it still with or no i again there are difficulties in judicial system of course there are but while talking to corruption this was the most fighting period in republic of moldova thats why according to the Public Perception corruption was the 1st one ranked problem in 2016 and it became the 5th one in 2019 due to the efforts that have been put fighting that in march washingtons human rights report effectively highlighted what all the other International Organizations have been saying they highlighted torture in your presence arrest and detention by the authorities restrictions on freedom of the media and serious attacks on people who stood in the way of your party especially lawyers as one un special rapporteur reported lawyers faced politically motivated criminal charges or were threatened each time they defended people with opinions dissenting from the author or it is you were Justice Minister and you signed off on this you were quite happy that should happen that these lawyers should be thrown. Well you know is very fashionable to start victimizing yourself understudying politics while you have some criminal cases on your side. Because for example to do with the charges that well you have this exactly this exactly cases youre referring to 2 cases one of them is related to one attorney a woman that has been committed a crime murder in 191999 the other one is another lawyer they were just referring to 2 cases that you cases refer referring to a pattern the banana i know exactly the cases that theyre reference to and the other case is this case of a lawyer reading koch who has committed bribes and traffic of influence before starting being the lawyer of one of the people that pretending to be politician so this is were talking about 2 cases all of them committed crimes before starting coming into the public area we have a lot of Different Cases to go through mr siward why was the International Community so keen on seeing you go on june the 14th the United States basically said it was pleased to see you go the state Department Spokesman said the u. S. Welcomes the Democratic Partys announcement that its withdrawing from government in favor of Prime MinisterPrime Minister maya sandu and the coalition formed by the democratically elected parliament the fact is washington couldnt wait to get rid of you could and more importantly it wasnt going to lift a finger to save you was it well no one should place any fingers to save any politicians without us it was a Coalition Created that were accepted at the final stage and we transfer the powers of the governments it is good the people to have the comparison of how the car country can be governed by ones and by the others its good for us to worry about willingly you gave up the rules of National Pressure you even got the Constitutional Court to strip the president of his powers so that new elections could be called for september if were talking about that is going to have to see how the. Uncivil since the 7th of june and youll see that we caved to power in a peaceful manner and we give it willingly and we may be the announcements for they said before transferring the power after trying to get the Constitutional Court to step in and call elections thats what she tried to do we didnt try to step in any Constitutional Court or stuff like that because on monday already which was the 3rd day of that announcement of the Constitutional Court will ready to the decision to transfer the power and then on tuesday which was the 4th day or we already announced that we are willing to stay to discuss how to transfer power peacefully who trustingly rulings from your Constitutional Court these days after you stuffed it with your own people who trusts the Constitutional Court here most of the people trust because you show court he doesnt trust only the ones who does dont like the decisions of that you know report last year the both those men foundations that the current Justice System including the general Prosecutors Office the Supreme Court the Supreme Judicial Council and the National Corruption center were largely subordinated to the oligarchy. Look who just happens to be chairman of your Democratic Party although you tell me hes just a down hes Just Announced that hes leave he Just Announced to hurt but thats not a great record you want Justice Minister us allow that kind of state calculation a play i think i think you i took the management of the minister of justice in 2015 and the end of the year and at that time already they were the statements that the state is captured by the way 2nd at that time already all the support of European Union in that area has been refused or suspended. I had the conditionality to approve lots of the reforms in a very short time and id managed to do that in 2 years or even less and it was accepted and recognized now we we have a legislation in the judiciary which is like a piece of the art we have a class of a lot of things to implement to work on training the new judges which have been renewed we have almost 5045 percent of the judge the new ones which came into the system but still we need to train them we need to create uniform practices in that respect and it cannot be done through the night it will take time down was to stop this is too cool to nation to the chairman of your party it was without burning has been foundation i would deserve using actual attention and i would disagree to you to make the assessments and the conclusions based on only on the statements of the parties that were on their position at the time its not because of their own findings and its because today i International Organizations today saying the same thing today at 2 weeks time since the government has been transferred to the other parties i can say the judiciary is subordinated to the new government why very simple because it was sufficient a new Prime Minister to make some statements and of course have been changing their decisions immediately through the night if this is subordination then you have to accept that their subordinates to the new government as well they want to go we have heard that it depends how do you sense that the leaders are demanding a beattie and of the judiciary is the or thora team is that not really syria has been in forced by your polity using corrupt practices business clan ties and intimidation this was reported because those militants are not say on the phone well they got it wrong lets lets then because a lot of religious and discuss that and we think the still lets lets discuss that i just stated that the new government. And it would be control of the judicial reign said its not so if they just made a statement but if they make the statement that you have to revise your decision and to decide like that and the court immediately is doing that what does it means if not subordination in your understanding been in more than 0 you also watch and you watch mr chipper to politicize ation of the judiciary was an instrument which was often used against mr knox rivals that was the conclusion of the Bertelsmann Foundation i went from 271822800 thanks to your efforts miss World Economic forum ranked moldova 100 and 32nd the other 137 countries as regards the independence of the judiciary are you proud of that record of course i mind no im not but i what they can say is standard what they can tell you is that when we took the judiciary i took the judiciary the trust of the people in the jury issue was 7 percent and when i left my position of the ministry of justice was 25 percent yes this is not sufficient but in 2 years time to increase is 3 times in something but they return the seat all your own and say hearty chairman neons knows who they gave their oil the stronger thats what they said and thats wrong they misunderstood they just got it wrong they made up the story is that right is this what youre saying no im not saying that im just saying that i dont get it some are saying that that we had a very poor situation which is not very fantastic today but it has registered a very good improvements in that respect you you deny any wrongdoing by the merits and im not im just saying that its not correct just to state their own doings but it is correct to see how the developments and evolution of all of that what about mr clarke look you are probably gunjan can do certain 2016 that he was made to the most hated man in the country because people need to find somebody to blame thats it hes blameless no no one is angel in my liver. Iran the new governments in even the World Governments even democratic parties the members were not the angels as no one is an angel well i mean i seriously think we are committing mistake was he a crook is he a crook of course its not a crook. Of course its not a crook its a person that has ensured a good and efficient governance from the point of view of the social infrastructure problems yes maybe the party didnt focus too much on democracy and maybe the party didnt focus too much on implementing some reforms in like judiciary for example but what these done improving the life of the people is done a lot and even more than many other governments putting together for the last previous 20 years when the new government came in your party chief that was the plan if lead the country along with a Business Partner illand saw he was looking perhaps for friends outside but. He didnt find any duty to find any friends again i would disagree with his statement but because he left the country only after transferring peacefully the governance studio to the opposition or to the how did he get out i dont know lets ask him i am not together said that neither the interior ministry nor the border have a record of him leaving the main is the the new minister of internal affairs made 3 different statements in just one week and all of them conflict in between each other so i would i wouldnt pay too much price to the statements that he made i understand that he is a new minister but hes committing too much mistaken and is misleading the Public Opinion in that respect probably isnt coming back you see its over everyones had enough of your part lets ask him lets ask him because he is your understanding hes going about my understanding is that hes coming back as long or when the security arrangements will be done including kurian although you refused for a week to give up your offices didnt you said earlier officials you appointed refused to obey the new Prime Ministers we on the 3rd day we already announced thursday counting since 8 of june were already announced that we are willing to have discussions to transfer the governess so i would disagree for a run and you put your supporters into the square and there could have been massive violence there has the chance for should be peaceful and now should be should be a peaceful but it might not be and it was peaceful and drive to get into the offices you wouldnt let me i mean we know they didnt try even to get into the office some of them did now none of where we said none of them didnt try to get into the offices they just made some declarations yes Different Things could probably tip a one week staying here in those very hard times to turn the stand the situation no one tried and we made all the announcements and invitations to them to Start Talking and they said. Its almost worth your time is over what means the governess is over it was over on 8 of june this year its over the new government has promised theyll be no revenge im sure you really are already there they already enjoy youre relieved to hear that made any because this is helping them with their inquiries im sorry previous corruption is because they harassments public pressure and revenge already is there many of the people already dismissed the professional people which has no links with the parties have been already dismissed from their positions but if you are there already amadis is youre saying now u. S. L. It was they reserve the use of people defiling carrying on with different reforms and different projects to manage and funding by our Development Partners their professional snell dr nyce like that very thing you didnt they were going to put a spotlight subroutine lets put on the spotlight its going to be rather uncomfortable for us and no its not at all uncomfortable because i see many of the critics that have been done there already be coming to an out opinion because they they criticize not knowing or not going into the details of different projects or it and reforms but well see what they will do and its better to judge about them and us in comparison and we will see when how the salaries will rise well see how the Infrastructure Projects will go on how the collections of the budget will be done and then we will see who is less corrupted and who is better managing and governing the country the challenge for this government is to dismantle your system of control over the courts and the criminal investigation body he says and which you controlled basically and which were loyal to your Party Chairman from 26 dean. Transparency International Reported your main aim was to concentrate your partys power within the executive criminal investigation bodies and courts it said are used by this party as instruments to intimidate and make loyal political rivals both at central and local level. So this practice is obvious particularly