Economy in ruins what business have they got continuing to govern. I want to welcome to conflict zone thank you tim thanks for having me where you have your new president saying that he was inaugurating a new democracy this is a man who in that the seven years has shown no inclination to promote democracy in any form whatsoever to suggest that hes going to change and i think. Thats a very corrects team to say that he didnt show any inclination to promote democracy what im talking about is a man that has been a speaker of parliament who should even handedness in parliament for the tempi for the time he was one were talking here of a man that lost elections and was happy to accept the results therefrom were talking of a man whos been individually named and sanctioned by the e. U. First in two thousand and two when the European Council expressed serious concerns among about Human Rights Violations by the government of zimbabwe among two hundred seventy three other people absolutely collective responsibility yes going to councils ban was extended in two thousand and four and two thousand and nine they accused him with them and then god work as a member of the government of engaging in activities that seriously undermining democracy respect for human rights and the rule of law seriously undermine democracy that doesnt sound so good for the future thats that you know hes seen a lot thats thats your parlance which would have been a play to. And isnt but when a determined were talking two hundred seventy three members of the establishment so youre basically saying that theres an army there all of this moment military forces should because the top iraqi or then well youre saying the bureaucrats are saying the general is that were there were undermining democracy in the finance minister make it already does it went along with the system doing its best to extinguish democracy home here and of the narrative thats not correct whats what so everybody else got it wrong well go around the u. S. Which also sanctioned him got it right everybody got what they went in tandem no you know so misunderstood. Thats correct the point im making is yes they way Human Rights Violations thats thats goes without saying and yes were in mission of building but yes weve taken responsibility was weak went and put in place a new constitution adversary than any responsibility to because nobodys been brought to justice but because its not a cause because of the cause of course its because of course to what we have a new acts which is coming police of National Reconciliation where this all of these matters will be dealt with so we do all really yet National Recognition of healing yes i think also going to deal with the most serious allegations made against mr monk which came in a two thousand and two u. N. Report to the Security Council it called him the key strategist of an elite group involved in elicit Diamond Trading if you read that i read the reports and that report is full of conjecture and innuendo eleanore fact was wherever they were simply calling him the benjamin if you read into an embarrassment for an investigation what investigation then you enjoy these allegations what allegations that you were the bagmen of all of a whole bunch of the reports of the networks which he was a senior figure who made money through what they called a variety of criminal activities including theft embezzle meant diversion of public funds and devaluation of goods smuggling false invoicing nonpayment of taxes kickbacks to Public Officials and brian. If you had read that reports as you want to pretend you did you would not have a chance ok ok as you return as you did but this is my ballistic theres no specific theres no specific allegation what you simply say is that when i was in a certain auto he was the big man it was was the speaker of parliament was the big man for the government of zimbabwe government of zimbabwe thats what the thats what the report says but theres Nothing Specific the government investigators here not even worth investigating hes above the law anyway so why if the if why but if they know if theyre in the congo or lost some damage or lost money to nangarhar or allegedly they should its for them to investigate what this is about would investigate its whats been demonstrated nobody is what its structure thats ok then if they came from the same democraticrepublican going on with a fine im missing it so this is not theyre not im saying its not our responsibility is to use money to investigate things that happened in the congo when its not as well as the man in the congo if they most anybody because the the accusations are not on when and where they are and im out in multiple operations the old many governments organise many governments so let them investigate mr miller do you expect zimbabweans never mind the International Community simply to gloss over all this instead of seeking a detailed accounting of what took place or dont you care or dont you simply dont care or dont you see the router as the rose petals which are which mr man under way in the in the generals are being thrown i mean. Fitted with the been fitted with a rose petals right now they are heroes including the generals youre talking about in all were involved in all of this that youre talking about so it means muslims are happy with the situation the people that have happy as you are really you know were happy however what is happening with the heroes when we come on to that illuminate lets lets talk about the Public Theater of the last ten days to talk about here mr mugabe wasnt pushed out in order to bring in democracy doesnt p. S. Have been perfectly happy trashing democracy for thirty five years the thing that brought change was the turbot realisation that mr. He was going to bring his wife into the top job and that would have upset all the vested interests in your country people who counted on. Coming in to protect their interests and their secrets you know couldnt now couldnt a result of that now could you risk that not us or call it what people could not risk is somebody who wanted thoughts to be unstable in who appeared in behaved in a stable way to take over the controls of power in zimbabwe it would establish it would have destabilized the whole country it would have to serve as the region that was the concern thats not the view of did it most with veteran of the liberation struggle he was close to mugabe for fifty years he was quite clear the army intervened he said to save zanu p. F. Not the country and he was you know this must not turn out just because there is a member of the opposition who also has but vested interests in the veteran of the liberation in the latter he said and of the of somethings wrong you see he says the army forces in saturdays opinions and yet he says the armed forces made up of zanu p. F. Members he said not democrats intent on are sharing in a pluralistic system not democrats intent on pushing a pluralistic says so in other words forget about democracy not just isnt it in other words for example because it is a bitter said old man thats what im saying lets not forget for democracy lets forget about what a member of the opposition would say again as an cuts they also go in saying that the movie set forward of even at the swearing in ceremony there were people were taken a look at them because the president of botswana for one in karma he said it pretty clearly i dont see why i should wish him mugabe well if he cared nothing for his own people why should i care for him and then there were the crowds that booed the Police Commissioner general gus the ensuring the calls for him to step down you think gave you talk about rose petals for everybody its not rose per thousand dollars im sure you didnt actually check the relationship between the people of zimbabwe and the Police Commissioner general the generals the rest of the army or the. Of the city secure kratz and the general indian. Jury why do you think the police were made to stand down why are they wanted right now as im talking to your starting joint patrol patrols with the army because the police were not trusted by the people they were not trusted by the army they were not trusted by the support they were trusted by only president mugabe why because the person that was second in command of the police is his cousin and and the war point was to serve god that president s mr i want what is disturbing to many people to be in your country there are plenty of science that the new president is no different from the old one you take is warning about pluralism and political opposition those who oppose us will park and park he said they will continue to park but the zion p. F. Train will roll on ruling and ruling while they park its all about the pasty theres nothing about the crash last thats a misinterpretation of what thats a direct quote of what you say yes but i would tell you any court get taken out of his context he loses many you think this man is ever going to allow the barking dogs of the opposition to sweep him out of power. If they will not a chance if they win he words if they really would its when uses the backing phrase its not only about opposition its its even included grace what you are simply saying is when im focused on Something Like a train or a locomotive every dog will run which runs around alongside the tracks can bark and bark but the locomotive does not stop its called a locomotive is not a country zanu p. F. As far as hes concerned he is a live here call for true force transformation within the country if there is falls it has his articles from thirty five years its trash we made mistakes trashed democracy in the trash now cant we dont trust democrats but yes we made mistakes and yes we messed up the economy status really disastrous whatever whatever line you turn when youre in. Very friendly guy youre a nice jovial sort of falling over the edge for whatever line you turn you know full well the system and gaggle is hostage to the brutality of the brutal record of zanu p. F. Using your theory this period as head of Central Intelligence in the mid 1980s coincided with the most brutal of all mugabes massacres in the socalled blue collar killings in which up to twenty thousand from the in the bailey tribe were killed disappear was denied any role but actually the state controlled by the way a chronicle reported at the time that he compared to citizens to bugs cockroaches that is such an epidemic the government needed to bring in de lay a little thing to get rid of the actual thing so this work is good i hear i had you now give me a chance to respond to you first thing is we way in a very intimate very formative years of our country mistakes were made and that excuses massacre not even tolerance and he doesnt its just important to me he says and simply say we made mistakes so thats an admission that he made mistakes was number one number two during that period when he was minutes or so security heat was coming to pull him into account for his actions all the time with a very robust parliament at that time and they would have some things yes when admitted crimes this was these were parking offenses for which you know to quell and pay a fine this was murder on a grand scale there were mistakes call it mistakes if they were biggest understatement in history this is a man or not mistakes its not its a fluke made mistakes that is stalin made mistakes you know there were mass murderers this was mass we lost will diminish it now will of the militia not will last and we lost the people we lost is about wins and. For u. K. I was for it too its unfortunate that it happened but in the formative years of any nation if we go back to the history of britain who find that there were pages there were people that died it does what it does and it doesnt clear people it doesnt make it any better but the fact still remains in a formative years of a nation things will happen which notions must happen when the dark should not have happened most of and violence stamped into your partys d. N. A. And thats already been proved yet again in the last week the very day the new president was sworn in the former finance minister Ignatius Trumbo was handed over to the police by the military who had beaten him up severely and while he was held in custody and the and where to testimony is told the initials trouble is that the minister talking about salvation in these various vision told what he himself in his testimony in chief he never said was when he was president wrong is he wrong you know he says he was tortured he has the they did it in the activist lawyer is wrong because the actual person didnt allege and deny it to me and i didnt beat him up no they didnt beat him up and he never you know in the same fact even best well you never said that he was here this refers to fight in court well for the court record isnt it when when somebody says surprise and off if thats what we go by i thought oh my we making it up as his lawyer said it was a very brutal and took only in way dealing with opponents if he says that but i can accept very much so and i tweeted about it myself that this is not the way were to do things but so thought is the country that youve created a few weeks ago to man and man are you calling us from going up and not. Let me finish the man who is now president had to flee for his life a couple of weeks ago and it doesnt end thats an unfortunate set of gay she isnt its not funny i dont like him why dont i see any of the politicians had to flee him i dont know i served i dont accept your calling me and my countrymen but i would say that it was it wasnt conventional it was wrong it shouldnt have happened that way but when it starts it isnt and you know right before you is more suited a thug isnt it time you came out whats been going on in your country all these years apart from just. Trying to get out of it by calling it a few mistakes and meet it that people deserve Something Better than zanu p. F. All day people really do it not people deserve what they vote for exactly thats what does that what democracy about it if the partisans on appeal then they deserves an opinion isnt it are you going to prescribe leaders was an all for prison for the peoples republic they made a choice theyll make a choice in july or so theyll make a choice again they choose not to be if thats what they deserve i put it to troy smith who was his Vice President for ten years yeah that under mugabe zimbabwe became a byword for corruption murder charge cities and torture she didnt argue with that she didnt know she said its a fact whats known again when you quote opposition we was good she was resisting she was with him for ten years but then Vice President by then but then what if you had said sorry for any of these mergers corruption atrocity you know its too much corruption is there and its a problem there you go ive made an admission made us not to the scale you want to say things happened as i told you nine hundred eighty which shouldnt have been the one hundred eighty which shouldnt have happened there you go you love those understatements things happened no these were murders and massacres carried out this was brutal brutal violence and you know it was a satanist it was things that happen when im saying but if you are playing it down well they want you to wear your results they were told. There were dissidents one too they were tories were actually kidnapped and killed they were they were somewhat h. Of infrastructure there were elections violence especially around the point thousand and eight am i explain what i mean by things happened so the response to the response to that was disproportionate yes and thats why im saying things happened because things happen on both sides and thats the phrase i. Why is it would not raise temperatures in ethnic tensions and Public Interest in the exactly i think what you are trying to do in january on the voice of america you were asked why your party hasnt been more successful in improving lives for the majority of zimbabwe three and a half decades. And you replied its a matter of time its not going to happen overnight of course you will end it and then you trying to and its never actually seven years and you say its a matter of time saying im not going to have another one i want people to spin saying this thirty seven years mantra they will be had they pretend that theres not nothing good happened in zimbabwe when we went through electrification went around when people when they were a lot of educated people when schools were built well probably job was because of referral spittles were built with the university only sort of the university and now weve got sixteen things positive things happened in zimbabwe you know if you look tonight because nobody denies you ok so talk its only its not its your education but in the last wrote achievements its not a wasted thirty seven years you see but as for the economy you know the man i work you certainly dont want it but i go yes im sorry but it will certainly set records but they werent the records you wanted under your policies grotesque mismanagement inflation peaked around three thousand and eight two hundred thirty one million percent congratulations thank you very much to all that record but why because you the west undermined our economy its the worse off for well not you know were not your body not your staggering in terms of course made in capital wed love to do this well i give you that but lets not lets not completely dismiss the role of the sanctions played because the whole point was to bring down this moment economy and but theres a problem government and its how it worked to some extent but the only thing that didnt happen is the government also broke down. Mysterious nation now is running at more than fourteen percent interest to output is less than ten percent of g. D. P. Compared to twenty five percent one thousand nine hundred ninety s. Nobodys under it in the world what before the new president its a lot of work fast which he has to embark on right now does way say they have to hit the ground running and the first top Government Official to make this admission when he was Vice President he went to china and he made admissions of them but was twenty years behind in development and when somebody of that stature and that level makes that admission its a very important admission and because of that its not underwriting the trust before him there are plenty of signs that your public wants justice