always really had a strong relationship -- even going back as a senator he's always presented very well with the african-american community. i do wonder though what that looks like if he has another debate performance like he did the last time. these are obviously predebate numbers. we saw how his numbers really kind of collapsed the last time. regarding kamala harris, this is strictly anecdotal but something i have noticed in talking to voters. talking to african-americans, especially african-american women, there's a reluctance there. for whatever reason, i can't explain it. but i have heard it a few times in interviewing people and it's almost like they think that she's not tested. she's not ready yet. and i think that probably explains a lot of biden's strengths because what is biden? a former senator, a former vice president, head of the foreign relations committee and he's a veteran. i think that's going on there. >> gene robinson, let's talk about your home state of south carolina. i have always said reverend al and i have always said, yes,