deterrent, using cruelty to children as a policy tool. and the consequences are going to be lifelong. and this is what congressional oversight looks like. this is a very good choice by the democrats, to highlight this, because it gets lost in all the rhetoric about the wall and open borders and all of this sort of thing, that in fact you have a man-made, administration-created, humanitarian nightmare that is not over. >> you've covered congress, you talk to these people all the time. diane degette from colorado doesn't do things lightly. she is going to really try to get to the bottom of this. as she told rachel maddow last night, they may never get to the bottom of this because they weren't keeping records before april. >> exactly. >> before a court ordered them to. >> to charlie's point, this is a massive scandal hiding in plain sight. this is why democrats are starting here with their congressional oversight.