that. how is there no pushback in the center of the policy debate? is it that surprising to you? you debunk these lies. you are usually the lone voice. >> yeah, it is unsurprising to me. this is who donald trump has been his entire political -- his entire -- his entire public life. he was a lying real estate developer, lying playboy celebrity and lying candidate and now a lying president and it's worked for him to some extent. the thing i tell people who despair about this is that he -- there is little evidence that he's a master liar during his presidency. they just got walloped in the midterms. a 60% disapproval rating today in a gallup poll. much of the public, not that hard core base but much of the public is seeing through a lot of this and the more extreme he gets when he says democrats want to get rid of the borders, the sillier he sounds to the majority. >> and the size of the base is something that drives me berserk.