masterminding this, whether it was torshin or somebody else, they had a pretty good insight into american politics. if you want to work your way into, you know, influencing republicans and conservatives who are now, you know, controlling all arms of government, do it through the nra. and they tried -- >> right. what decade warren zivon say? bring lawyers, guns, and money. >> yeah, the you know what has hit the fan. >> family show. family show, david! >> but i give them credit. >> you're saying -- >> it was done out in the open. >> you're getting at the fact that they were quite adept at infiltrating specifically the conservative wing of american politics in the way they did it. and that gives, of course, insight into what they're accused of with regard to the trump campaign, with j.d. gordon, a trump adviser who sits at the nexus of guns and trump. it's so much fascinating stuff, the final question i have for you we haven't even gotten to,