like an independent contradictions. he says there was a meeting with donald junior with jared kushner and paul manafort and deatgates possibly two others out of the presence of the president, discussed the russians. we checked with their lawyers, the ones we could check with, four of the six, that meeting never ever took place. didn't happen, a figment of his imagination or is lying. >> let's deal with the figments clearly. guiliani says the only reason he brought up this other meeting he says did not happen, that he wanted to get out in front of a leak. ruddy is saying michael's big secret evidence, if he has it, is actually nothing. you can think of this attack that is an argument, michael cohen is like geraldo but going to open this famous vault and the vault is actually empty, no