like two people who have less of a paper trail that might be more likely to be easily confirmed in the senate. is that an argument that you've seen sway this president? >> i'm not sure it sways the president, but -- >> what does sway the president? >> the fact a name has not come out, they've not floated anyone other than these four people i think truly supports the idea that he is still making his decision. hardiman doesn't surprise me as being a last-minute kind of rising to the top because he was -- most people say he was number two when justice gorsuch was selected. he's already been up there in that consideration, so wouldn't surprise me that his name would suddenly start to emerge again. >> kimberly atkins, one of the things that has struck me is brett kavanagh has been a favorite and the concern about him in these final hours seem to be the fact that he used to work for another republican president. >> right, has close ties, very close ties. >> very troubling. >> yes. that's this whole idea that he is establishment, right? he's close to the bush family, very close to the bush administration.