it. the other problem is there are kids who don't have parents here. they are having to go to court -- little kids without lawyers. that's an additional problem that won't be solved by this injunction. we need to get the kids back. this little boy, 7 years old without his mother. there are 2-year-old, 3-year-old kids every night wondering if they'll see their parents again. >> you were there, laura, during the unaccompanied minor in 2014-15. it was under those circumstances the obama administration pioneered the idea of family detention, they called it. many people said that was inhumane, a terrible decision. it's the future on the horizon. the trump administration wants tens of thousands of units of family detention. having seen it up close, what do you think of it? >> you know what's important to know is where the obama administration ended up on this issue. after trial and error and after being pushed by organizations