contacted these witnesses using encrypted apps and using a technique called foldering where he wrote e-mails, he saved the e-mails in a draft folder and never send them and then give another person the password so that other person could log in and read that the written draft that he wrote without that e-mail having been sent or received. it is a counter surveillance trick. so the prosecutors explain that that's what manafort has been doing to communicate. we didn't know that before this hearing today. but essentially they're spelling out how manafort has been trying to evade surveillance while he's been breaking the law and contacting witnesses while he's out on bail. here's greg andres, prosecutor from the special counsel's office. "it's important to note as well, judge, that this issue with the obstruction of justice, the government didn't learn about that by somehow subpoenaing or monitoring or getting a search warrant for mr. manafort's communications. we learned about it because a