russian wheres that anyone in his cabinet is afraid to mention it. it's almost like a mob kind of thing, don't mention it to the boss. don't say russia in front of him. >> he's very concerned. and when you look to the indictment and the operation undertaken, you have to wonderful he himself is concerned he couldn't win without the russians. >> what gives you the sense of magnitude like that, that they were able to move thousands of votes? >> that they were able -- >> these gimmicks they pulled and the dirty tricks and the cage of the person attending hillary and the social media -- how much drive is that? >> i think it's hard to know. it's a very sophisticated influence campaign. it's not like we're saying they got into the voting machines. but given the margins in just three states, it's hard to know especially when you're talking about a combination of depressing votes in minority communities, trying to divert people to third parties, having