force one to the "new york times" about said meeting, just that alone. is there any way that robert mueller would not want to talk to the president? >> it's inconceivable that mueller would close this investigation without talking to the president for at least three reasons. one is, if you're going to pursue criminal charges in the most extreme case, of course, it would be totally irresponsible to do that without hearing the president's side of the story. if you're planning not to pursue criminal charges, similarly, making sure that the president's account is, in fact, consistent with what you think you know from other sources is pivotal to doing that responsively, and moreover if you're contemplating charges against other people who might call the president as a defense witness, you need to know what he would say. so there's no -- i think there's no scenario in which the --