i wasn't in there and the people there deny it. why don't we talk to some of the people who were in the meeting. frankly, if you ask president trump directly he'd probably confirm some of these. he has no shame. he either doesn't understand or doesn't care if he's perceived as being a racist. this is what he believes and i think we have to abandoned the pretexts that everything is a miscommunication, everything is a misunderstanding, everything is wrong reporting. no, this is who the president of the united states is. and i would say one thing about the policy. mark short has it exactly backwards. these people have been here for year. they've had children. they've lived productive lives. they've put down roots in the cumulative community. why, for goodness sakes, would we want to send these people back? so their logic is completely backwards. >> reverend sharpton, i talked to peter baker who didn't write the piece and he said it's a larger piece and larger look at immigration policy. how difficult is it to look past this and look at immigration at