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counterprotesters protesting hate and extremism. when you look at this, is that something that crosses your mind? >> yes, and jim's an old friend going back over 20 years. one of the things that we've seen is when there's a tactic used by one side, it becomes dispersed across the extremist community, and we saw that in england recently when a man drove into a crowd of muslim worshippers leaving their mosque. so, while we've seen this been encouraged, for instance, initially by violent jihadist, we've now seen this kind of stuff come up on the far right, and indeed, there have been -- one of my colleagues sent me an e-mail saying that there's even been legislation saying that if people are run over by having streets blocked, that they should be indemnified in some jurisdictions, which of course is ridiculous. but the bottom line here, i've been to many of these kind of protests over many years, is

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