believing this is suspicious. i am pretty far beyond this to the point that this is now sinister. there is no way that this can be explained. i mean from the intelligence perspective. >> yeah. >> you know. from the diplomatic perspective, perhaps. but there just is no way that if this is true that he wanted covert communications with the russian using russian cryptographic systems in the hopes that we didn't have those things broken, then this is now espionage. >> to go back to your point, having first hand experience of this, being in a transition, which, again, transitions are strange, right? at one level, it's the incoming government, so there's some degree to which you have the capacity to talk to foreign governments, but also you have no formal vested constitutional powers. you would never, ever, ever have a meeting in which you would suggest to a foreign ambassador to use their diplomatic facilities to evade american intelligence detection, right? >> no, because our transitions don't tend to be hostile takeovers from one government to the next. they're transitions and we move from a process of having one person elected and taking the time for the government to get