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program operated. with respect to that, i think the agency has answered it in its response to the committee report. >> but you acknowledge this was over and above. >> that was not something that was done as part of the interrogation program. >> but you won't call it torture? >> i'm -- it wasn't torture in terms of it wasn't part of the program. >> let me ask you this. we've got al najar, had he handcuffing of one or both of his wrists to an overhead bar, would not allow him to lower his arms 22 hours a day for 22 days in order to break his resistance. he was also wearing a diaper and had no access to toilet facilities. was that acknowledged? was that part of the program that you approved? >> i can't tell from that specifically whether it was or not. >> page 53 of the report. >> the report is seriously flawed. i didn't talk to anybody who knew anything about the program. they didn't talk to anybody that was in the program. the best guide for what, in fact, happened is the one that's the report that was produced by the three cia directors and deputy directors of the cia when