board of ordained ministry and declared he is not willing or able to uphold the laws of the book of discipline in its entirety in the future as required by the trial courts verdict. when asked to surrender credentials as required, he refused to do so. therefore the board was compelled by the jury's decision to deem his credentials surrendered. joining me now for a last word exclusive, frank schaeffer and his son tim. reverend, when you did this, did you realize that you were going to be in -- in such direct contradiction to your church's position on the subject? yes, actually i did know that at the time. back in 2007. performed the wedding. i expected repercussion. i was ready to be defrocked or be fired back then. i let my superiors know about it.