areas the producers in health care, the people who are giving you health care, and in college, that gives them enormous level to increase prices on consumers because they can't say no. they'll mortgage their home. they'll go into debt. they'll do whatever they need to do to pay that off. >> independent of the measures you've outlined thus far, the president -- or there's also -- there are models where the president and the white house and the administration are looking at it, including the pay it forward model, which is in place in oregon, which is where students attend without paying tuition and participating students have to send a percentage of their income back to the state for 24 years. >> these are interesting models. again, one thing i do think they're smart to be thinking about is there are a lot of ways to make the way we deliver student aid better, but at some point if this is going to be affordable in the long run, you need to make the cost of -- >> what i'm getting from you is republicans should defund the obama education bill as part of the government shutdown. >> and your grad school diploma should be flushed down the