people. >> and it is far from an exception. >> glen, every time we do a prison segment, and you've been a guest, you know, several times, every time my executive producer rolls his eyes and says, really? because we lose audience. people actually turn the tv off. and yet, the relatively sensati sensation docu-dramas that we do on "lockup" on this network are extremely highly rated. how can i get nerdland to care that this is happening? that this matters for who we are as a people? >> i think -- you know, i'm glad you're contextualizing it. we're addicted to punishment and addicted to incarceration. and if the country is addicted to incarceration, california is like a heroin addict that just hit the lottery. essentially, you have the majority of their state work is our correctional officers. the correctional officers are