has been what they say, an abdication of the united states on the world stage. >> somalia or gadhafi probably doesn't agree with that assessment, for he wasn't around he probably would not agree with that assessment. obviously we helped put together and lay the groundwork for liberating libya. when it comes to egypt, i think had it not been for the leadership we showed, you might have seen a different outcome there. but also, understanding that we do nobody a service when we leap before we look. >> joining me now, msnbc political analyst, bloomberg view columnist, jonathan alter. great to have you with us. thank you, jonathan. a rare interview, a rare occasion needs special assessment. what do you think of what you just heard? >> i mean, i thought it was good interview. could he have had a couple more zingers? sure. but it's really hard when it's a, two-on-one, which it was in this case, and b, when you're interviewing a president, i