founding, saying you must participate in order to do that. but here is one thing, ed. you know, this country has been confronted with the politics of cycles. in some ways, the politics of the 20th century into the 21st century has been the unending struggle between the forces of the right and reaganism and the forces of roosevelt, the great society, a progressive majority. and i think the democrats need to understand that they need to be closer to main street than to wall street. and that when they don't defend the interests of the ordinary, average common american that they're letting slip away the power to shape a new coalition. >> when you look at gay rights, when you look at immigration reform, which the republicans and the conservatives have rejected, when you look at the economy of income inequality in this country, has conservatism been rejected? >> conservatism has been rejected. and even more broadly, ed, conservatism has degenerated into an extremism that is out of touch with the changing realities of the this country. for example, a radical individualism which a paul ryan