what could happen if we end up going over the cliff even though by the time we do everyone will expect it, the market will still feel the lain. >> leigh, i know predictions are hard, but is this going to be a steady slide or is it going to be like that t.a.r.p. vote where you see 600, 700 points go off the market in a day? >> i'm not sure if it will be as extreme as the t.a.r.p. vote but given that that's what happened then and that's also what happened when we -- with the negotiations with the debt ceiling fell through last year, that was also a one-day drop, i think we'll see something similar rather than a slope. i don't think that's going to be the case in this -- if we go over. >> joy, i'm beginning to feel that this is all like deja vu all over again. it's going to be the debt ceiling again. they're going to kick the can down the road a little bit and then we're going to have the same fiscal cliff discussions and debt ceiling discussions we've been having for the last two years. so is 2013 going to be like this? is this what the politics has become zbh. >> you know what, richard, i think we've learned a few things