and they respected each other. and you can even see that in some of their debates. but these two guys do not respect or like each other. in fact, i would say they not so cordially detest one another. so they will have to be acting tonight when they're seeming friendly. and we'll see whether there's a little extra edge to some of the humor that builds on what we saw in that second debate. it was about the most hostile debate we've ever seen. >> yeah, it was. is this a night where the president needs to take the high road no matter what? >> yeah. i mean, it's a light evening. you know? and you're not expected to actually land real blows or score real points. but this is where the skill of the joke writers comes in. you know, can he break through the media clatter with something that also advances his message? and we'll see whether he does. it's all being scripted for him. the votes that they're after here, the people that pay the closest attention to the al smith dinner, i went four years ago, are catholic voters. neither of these candidates is a catholic but they both have catholic running mates and the catholic vote is very much up