reasonable guy who's just getting yanked against his will. if you look at the welfare ad you were just looking at, there wasn't some ground swell asking him to make up lies about welfare reform and lean into the worst kind of politics. that came straight from him and his campaign. i think this idea he's getting pulled against his will is becoming a harder and harder case to make except the argument that this is where he's deciding to lead. >> isn't tom really right? isn't it more of a question of being abrasive with manners or being abrasive with no manners but they're all abrasive? >> he's a grownup. he makes his own choices. so no one forced him to do this. this was his ambition and this is presumably you've got to take him at his word. this is where his heart is. he's had a change of heart an being conservative with a small c when it comes to things like